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Do I need to buy a new helmet (cracks)(pic)

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Old
08-17-2009, 02:08 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Jagger Bomb View Post
Not too mention they are quite a bit heavier than a hockey helmet. That would be a lot to lug around on the ice
dood.... carbon fiber

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08-17-2009, 02:11 PM
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I played with half a season with a mashed up helmet. I got in a fight with someone and the ref tackled me and sat on my head and cracked my bucket.

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08-17-2009, 02:11 PM
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A crack renders the CSA certification void, and depending on whether or not your league is sanctioned, a cracked helmet is illegal to wear. If you're playing sanctioned hockey, a referee cannot let you play with it if he or his linesmen sees the crack.

when was the last time a ref actually checked anyone's helmet? They do not even check the curves on your stick.

I am not a proponent of being irresponsable with protective equipement, but in all honesty I think some folks are just going over board here. Structural integrity, CSA certification....

Might as well stay home under the covers.

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08-17-2009, 02:18 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Joe Cole View Post
when was the last time a ref actually checked anyone's helmet? They do not even check the curves on your stick.

I am not a proponent of being irresponsable with protective equipement, but in all honesty I think some folks are just going over board here. Structural integrity, CSA certification....

Might as well stay home under the covers.
We had a guy get kicked out last week for improper chin strap. he had laces holding his helmet on. Thankfully the dude at the pro-shop hooked him up (lol 2 dollar savings!).

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08-17-2009, 02:26 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by koh19 View Post
no, it's one of those nike ones, the one everybody has or used to have.
Just get the NikeBauer one, I never had cracking issues with it and I've had it for a few years now.

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08-17-2009, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Joe Cole View Post
Might as well stay home under the covers.
As someone who has had his life irreparably changed by a crosscheck to the head 18 months ago, I invite you all to consider the following...

If you were to lose a hand, you would no doubt feel a tremendous sense of grief, pain, and loss. However, over time, with the help of prosthetics, you would learn to adapt to your condition. Same goes for losing a leg.

There is no prosthetic for the brain. There is no more delicate organ in the body than the brain. Concussions aren't just about headaches and dizziness. In my case, my short-term memory is shot, I can't concentrate enough to read a book, and I can't do my job as a CPA. That's life-altering stuff, and you never think it's going to happen to you until it does.

Your brain is worth the $75 for a new Cascade.

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08-17-2009, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by HFNHL Commish View Post
Your brain is worth the $75
I think it varys on the person

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08-18-2009, 10:15 AM
  #33
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As someone who has had his life irreparably changed by a crosscheck to the head 18 months ago, I invite you all to consider the following...

If you were to lose a hand, you would no doubt feel a tremendous sense of grief, pain, and loss. However, over time, with the help of prosthetics, you would learn to adapt to your condition. Same goes for losing a leg.

There is no prosthetic for the brain. There is no more delicate organ in the body than the brain. Concussions aren't just about headaches and dizziness. In my case, my short-term memory is shot, I can't concentrate enough to read a book, and I can't do my job as a CPA. That's life-altering stuff, and you never think it's going to happen to you until it does.

Your brain is worth the $75 for a new Cascade.
In no way am I trying to diminish the fact that brain injuries are devestating. As well, I am sorry for anyone who sustains a serious injury playing a game for the love of it, such as yourself. I take care of my wife who has a laundry list of injuries and conditions born out of those injuries, all caused by car accidents that she, nor I were the driver. I know what a life with diminished capacities are all about.

That said, a helmet without a crack would not guarantee a player escaping a brain injury. It just won't. It is just a terrible draw of the cards. Native in the adjustability of the design of an adjustable helmet, is structural weakness.

The crack from the original poster will not make a difference except in the most rare circumstances. Yes, there is a risk, but there is risk in everyday life too. What is our choice? Stay home and get fat?

I used to play with a goaltender that would buy a new piece of gear after any time he would get a new bruise. No matter what he bought, he still felt the sting of the puck. It's hockey, not needle point.

The moral of the story, if you play, you risk getting hurt. While I am pro-protection, I think that we have a tendency of ringing the bell to loudly and too often. There are some obvious safety issues, such as full face shields for non-pro players, and then there are "it would be best if you had a better X" situations such as this.

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08-18-2009, 10:31 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Joe Cole View Post
In no way am I trying to diminish the fact that brain injuries are devestating. As well, I am sorry for anyone who sustains a serious injury playing a game for the love of it, such as yourself. I take care of my wife who has a laundry list of injuries and conditions born out of those injuries, all caused by car accidents that she, nor I were the driver. I know what a life with diminished capacities are all about.

That said, a helmet without a crack would not guarantee a player escaping a brain injury. It just won't. It is just a terrible draw of the cards. Native in the adjustability of the design of an adjustable helmet, is structural weakness.

The crack from the original poster will not make a difference except in the most rare circumstances. Yes, there is a risk, but there is risk in everyday life too. What is our choice? Stay home and get fat?

I used to play with a goaltender that would buy a new piece of gear after any time he would get a new bruise. No matter what he bought, he still felt the sting of the puck. It's hockey, not needle point.

The moral of the story, if you play, you risk getting hurt. While I am pro-protection, I think that we have a tendency of ringing the bell to loudly and too often. There are some obvious safety issues, such as full face shields for non-pro players, and then there are "it would be best if you had a better X" situations such as this.

There's no helmet that is "concussion proof" but you're not helping your chances by playing with a cracked bucket. If that crack is hit, the whole helmet can open up leaving just the foam between a puck/stick and your skull.

Some guys don't think twice about spending $100-225 every month on a new stick that is going to make their game marginally better, but are absolutely repulsed at the thought of spending money on protecting their head.

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08-18-2009, 10:54 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Cole View Post
The crack from the original poster will not make a difference except in the most rare circumstances. Yes, there is a risk, but there is risk in everyday life too. What is our choice? Stay home and get fat?

I used to play with a goaltender that would buy a new piece of gear after any time he would get a new bruise. No matter what he bought, he still felt the sting of the puck. It's hockey, not needle point.

The moral of the story, if you play, you risk getting hurt. While I am pro-protection, I think that we have a tendency of ringing the bell to loudly and too often. There are some obvious safety issues, such as full face shields for non-pro players, and then there are "it would be best if you had a better X" situations such as this.
You're absolutely on point in that, no matter what, we all have to get up, dust ourselves off, and move on as best we can. My way of doing that was to start coaching.

I acknowledge that all hockey equipment is flawed, as trade-offs are made between comfort, weight, and flexibility. I also acknowledge that hockey is a risky sport. However, that risk can be mitigated without affecting the game play. As a coach, that means I check that the bench doors work properly, the stanchions are well-padded, etc. As a player, that means you're responsible for having all your equipment work the way it's supposed to.

It's not about putting people in a bubble. That's cynical. My helmet was in perfect shape and I still got wrecked. What it's about is risk mitigation.

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08-18-2009, 01:38 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Heat McManus View Post
There's no helmet that is "concussion proof" but you're not helping your chances by playing with a cracked bucket. If that crack is hit, the whole helmet can open up leaving just the foam between a puck/stick and your skull..
This would mean you get hit once, the helmet cracks WIDE open (I have yet to see this), and then you get hit right away after. I just do not see that happening.

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Originally Posted by Heat McManus View Post

Some guys don't think twice about spending $100-225 every month on a new stick that is going to make their game marginally better, but are absolutely repulsed at the thought of spending money on protecting their head.
Yes, true. But that said the stick comes into contact with the puck, ice, boards and other hard surfaces continually. Your helmet just does not.

Again, I repeat, I am not against protection. I am very pro-equipement. I have a life to go back to. I do not want to be permentently damaged while playing a game I PAY to play, but some of the opinions here are simply alarmist.

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08-18-2009, 01:43 PM
  #37
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It's not about putting people in a bubble. That's cynical. My helmet was in perfect shape and I still got wrecked. What it's about is risk mitigation.
I agree. We have to keep in mind that hockey equipment is expensive. Young guys have a lot of things to pay for, education, a cool car, beer etc...

I am being facetious but truth is an adult with a steady stream of revenue can afford a new helmet when a crack appears. A younger guy cannot always justify it. And his chances are good if not heavily in favor of not putting yourself at any additional risk by playing with equipment that is one tick down from perfect.

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08-18-2009, 02:37 PM
  #38
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This would mean you get hit once, the helmet cracks WIDE open (I have yet to see this), and then you get hit right away after. I just do not see that happening.



Yes, true. But that said the stick comes into contact with the puck, ice, boards and other hard surfaces continually. Your helmet just does not.

Again, I repeat, I am not against protection. I am very pro-equipement. I have a life to go back to. I do not want to be permentently damaged while playing a game I PAY to play, but some of the opinions here are simply alarmist.
Nobody is saying to throw your helmet out when it gets scuffed. But a large crack at an area that is supposed to hold the helmet is a bit of a problem.

I've seen small cracks bust wide open when hit with a shot and hard hit into the boards. Both instances were 4000s, at the screws. It's not going to happen to every single helmet that has a crack there, but it's a possibility.

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08-20-2009, 01:24 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Joe Cole View Post
when was the last time a ref actually checked anyone's helmet? They do not even check the curves on your stick.

I am not a proponent of being irresponsable with protective equipement, but in all honesty I think some folks are just going over board here. Structural integrity, CSA certification....

Might as well stay home under the covers.
A crack does weaken the helmet. One puck shot to that crack, and it could mean a bad result for the guy wearing it.

Also, it's not an official's job to check the curve of your stick. A stick measurement must be requested by the opposing team. If you're in Canada, there is also no longer a such thing as an illegal curve, but you can request measurements on length of the shaft and length and width of the blade.

As for checking helmets, it's the linesman's responsibility to look for any equipment problems during warmup. If it is caught during the game, then the referee applies the necessary rule.

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08-20-2009, 10:55 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Stripes View Post
A crack does weaken the helmet. One puck shot to that crack, and it could mean a bad result for the guy wearing it.
1 in a million. Choose accordingly.

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Originally Posted by Stripes View Post

Also, it's not an official's job to check the curve of your stick. A stick measurement must be requested by the opposing team. If you're in Canada, there is also no longer a such thing as an illegal curve, but you can request measurements on length of the shaft and length and width of the blade. As for checking helmets, it's the linesman's responsibility to look for any equipment problems during warmup. If it is caught during the game, then the referee applies the necessary rule.[/
Are you serious? You take the role of refs waaaay to serious. They do look at curves occasionaly, because that it obvious, even if it is not their official job. That I have witnessed and been the vicitim of directly.

Regarding them examining equipement... never, in 35 years of organized top tier hockey have I ever seen this. The closest it comes is an untied skate lace, or goalie pad strap. If it is blatant, like a 2 inch long, 1 inch wide crack down the front of the helmet, they will notice it, otherwise... they just won't.

The refs are mortal.

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08-20-2009, 01:00 PM
  #41
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1 in a million. Choose accordingly.



Are you serious? You take the role of refs waaaay to serious. They do look at curves occasionaly, because that it obvious, even if it is not their official job. That I have witnessed and been the vicitim of directly.

Regarding them examining equipement... never, in 35 years of organized top tier hockey have I ever seen this. The closest it comes is an untied skate lace, or goalie pad strap. If it is blatant, like a 2 inch long, 1 inch wide crack down the front of the helmet, they will notice it, otherwise... they just won't.

The refs are mortal.
It depends on the level you're playing at. Beer league aren't usually married to the book in these cases.

I've never seen a ref call for an illegal curve. I've seen the opposing team call for it only to have the ref glance at the offending stick and say, "Legal. Put a guy in the box".

I agree though that very, very, very few refs are going to call a guy for a guy for a crack like the OP posted. I've seen guys with 1/2 a go out there and not have the ref say anything. Mostly it's going to depend on who is signing their checks.

Travel and junior might be a bit of a different story.

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08-20-2009, 03:08 PM
  #42
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Travel and junior might be a bit of a different story.
I was happy to read that you softened your response to this. I was seriously thinking that I was transported to Mars with all the alarmist, "the rule book says" replies to this OP.

It was like folks saying they never drive a few ticks over the speed limit.

Regarding travel and junior teams, when I played in those tiers, your helmet, gloves and pants were supplied by the team. In that case, a player would simply tell the coach/equipement manager to order a new helmet.

In lower leagues, Mom and Dad, or the young player himself is paying for the gear. Money is always an issue. For litgeous reasons in the States, I understand never recommending playing with a cracked helmet. But it true terms... the degree to which safety is reduced is debatable.

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08-21-2009, 11:38 PM
  #43
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Are you serious? You take the role of refs waaaay to serious. They do look at curves occasionaly, because that it obvious, even if it is not their official job. That I have witnessed and been the vicitim of directly.

Regarding them examining equipement... never, in 35 years of organized top tier hockey have I ever seen this. The closest it comes is an untied skate lace, or goalie pad strap. If it is blatant, like a 2 inch long, 1 inch wide crack down the front of the helmet, they will notice it, otherwise... they just won't.
I am a referee. There is no such thing as taking my role too seriously when I'm paid to do a job and in a position of being responsible (to a certain degree) for player safety. Don't forget, in "top tier hockey", the officials are being supervised as well, and if they don't catch these things, it is noted on their evaluation.

If a referee takes it upon himself to check a curve (back when there was a such thing as an illegal curve), then he was overstepping his bounds as a referee.

Most players don't notice when I'm looking at equipment during a warmup. We're not examining the players, we're watching them as they warmup for anything noticeable that is against the rules and under our responsibility to control.

Also, in a lot of top tier hockey, leagues/associations put the teams through regular equipment checks, so there isn't usually a lot to notice. The most common things I catch with players during warmup are neck guards not done up properly, chin straps that aren't tight enough and pants that are torn or unzipped on the inside of the leg.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Cole View Post
In lower leagues, Mom and Dad, or the young player himself is paying for the gear. Money is always an issue. For litgeous reasons in the States, I understand never recommending playing with a cracked helmet. But it true terms... the degree to which safety is reduced is debatable.
I'm not arguing that. However, liability is an issue. If I catch a player with even a small crack like the one in this thread, that player is getting a new helmet or he's not playing. In the small chance that something does happen, and I allowed him to play knowing the helmet was cracked, I am liable.

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08-25-2009, 10:57 AM
  #44
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Stripes... you have a PM

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08-25-2009, 11:44 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Joe Cole View Post
In no way am I trying to diminish the fact that brain injuries are devestating. As well, I am sorry for anyone who sustains a serious injury playing a game for the love of it, such as yourself. I take care of my wife who has a laundry list of injuries and conditions born out of those injuries, all caused by car accidents that she, nor I were the driver. I know what a life with diminished capacities are all about.

That said, a helmet without a crack would not guarantee a player escaping a brain injury. It just won't. It is just a terrible draw of the cards. Native in the adjustability of the design of an adjustable helmet, is structural weakness.

The crack from the original poster will not make a difference except in the most rare circumstances. Yes, there is a risk, but there is risk in everyday life too. What is our choice? Stay home and get fat?

I used to play with a goaltender that would buy a new piece of gear after any time he would get a new bruise. No matter what he bought, he still felt the sting of the puck. It's hockey, not needle point.

The moral of the story, if you play, you risk getting hurt. While I am pro-protection, I think that we have a tendency of ringing the bell to loudly and too often. There are some obvious safety issues, such as full face shields for non-pro players, and then there are "it would be best if you had a better X" situations such as this.
Full face shield would fall into "it would be best..." category.

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08-25-2009, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Stripes View Post
I am a referee. There is no such thing as taking my role too seriously when I'm paid to do a job and in a position of being responsible (to a certain degree) for player safety. Don't forget, in "top tier hockey", the officials are being supervised as well, and if they don't catch these things, it is noted on their evaluation.

If a referee takes it upon himself to check a curve (back when there was a such thing as an illegal curve), then he was overstepping his bounds as a referee.

Most players don't notice when I'm looking at equipment during a warmup. We're not examining the players, we're watching them as they warmup for anything noticeable that is against the rules and under our responsibility to control.

Also, in a lot of top tier hockey, leagues/associations put the teams through regular equipment checks, so there isn't usually a lot to notice. The most common things I catch with players during warmup are neck guards not done up properly, chin straps that aren't tight enough and pants that are torn or unzipped on the inside of the leg.



I'm not arguing that. However, liability is an issue. If I catch a player with even a small crack like the one in this thread, that player is getting a new helmet or he's not playing. In the small chance that something does happen, and I allowed him to play knowing the helmet was cracked, I am liable.
No stick shall exceed sixty-three inches (63") in length from the heel to the end of the shaft nor more than twelve and one-half inches (12 1/2") from the heel to the end of the blade.

Requests for an exception to the length of the shaft (only) may be submitted in writing to and must be approved by the League’s Hockey Operations Department prior to any such stick being approved for use. Maximum length of a stick granted an exception under this rule is sixty-five inches (65”).

The blade of the stick shall not be more than three inches (3") in width at any point between the heel and ˝” in from the mid-point of the tip of the blade, nor less than two inches (2"). All edges of the blade shall be beveled. The curvature of the blade of the stick shall be restricted in such a way that the distance of a perpendicular line measured from a straight line drawn from any point at the heel to the end of the blade to the point of maximum curvature shall not exceed three-quarters of an inch (3/4").

I use Afinogenov's and still get hit with this if i bend out even just a touch. I get my curve checked prob 5-6 times a seaon. Mind you if i do bend out it is between 13/16 and 7/8.

P.S ^^NHL rules not Hockey Canada^^


Anyways back on topic. If your bucket is cracked get a new one. If you cant afford a top notch bucket at the time, pick up a basic Bauer for like 30 bucks. Its still offers the same protection just wont be as comfortable.

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08-25-2009, 02:23 PM
  #47
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Full face shield would fall into "it would be best..." category.
We'll agree to disagree.

Personally, I cannot see any reason to lose teeth, break a jaw or have an errant stick/puck sneak under a visor and blind me/break my nose for a rec hockey game.

I have played all my life with a full shield/visor. I cannot even tell I am wearing a helmet once the puck drops. The "advantage" is lost on me. Plus everyone else except a few wear a full shield, we all have the same "disadvantage".

Like I said previously, if a player needs the increased visibility of a half visor (or no visor) to be effective on the ice, he is probably playing at a level higher then where he should be.

Just my opinion.

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08-25-2009, 07:58 PM
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We'll agree to disagree.

Personally, I cannot see any reason to lose teeth, break a jaw or have an errant stick/puck sneak under a visor and blind me/break my nose for a rec hockey game.

I have played all my life with a full shield/visor. I cannot even tell I am wearing a helmet once the puck drops. The "advantage" is lost on me. Plus everyone else except a few wear a full shield, we all have the same "disadvantage".

Like I said previously, if a player needs the increased visibility of a half visor (or no visor) to be effective on the ice, he is probably playing at a level higher then where he should be.

Just my opinion.
Personally, I cannot see any reason to break an arm, break a leg or break my neck for a rec hockey game. Maybe i shouldnt play?!

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08-25-2009, 10:41 PM
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P.S ^^NHL rules not Hockey Canada^^
Exactly. If you're playing under Hockey Canada rules, there is no illegal curve, and if you're having referees go up to you to check your curve, it's not their job to do so. I would tell the next referee who takes it upon himself to check your curve that he can see it when Hockey Canada re-adopts the rule and the other team requests a measurement. (But if he tells you that he think it's dangerous equipment, you're hooped because he CAN do that. ).

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08-26-2009, 12:15 AM
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Exactly. If you're playing under Hockey Canada rules, there is no illegal curve, and if you're having referees go up to you to check your curve, it's not their job to do so. I would tell the next referee who takes it upon himself to check your curve that he can see it when Hockey Canada re-adopts the rule and the other team requests a measurement. (But if he tells you that he think it's dangerous equipment, you're hooped because he CAN do that. ).
I usually tell the zebra to go ******* himself then grab another stick off the bench, then switch up after my first shift.

Mind you i grew up playing with a few and have know the majority of the zebras for years so...

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