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Old
08-16-2009, 07:42 AM
  #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
It's not really how much it interferes with the game but rather the precedent that it sets. If they start messing with one part of the broadcast and it is just accepted because "it's not that bad" then they will logically move on to something even more of a nuisance. Perhaps more ads on the playing surface...what about giant advertiser logos on the uniforms? Where does it end?
I understand that, but please if they go that far ill join the bandwagon cuz thats not supposed to be in hockey so lets just pray. . . . . . . . amen. okay and i plan on having season tickets when im older(im only 16)but if it gets that ubserd, they wont be able to get away with it, too many people will complain and it will be taken off. im sure of it.

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08-16-2009, 11:04 AM
  #177
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Squeezing every single dollar you can ultimately harms ALL businesses as it severely decreases loyalty and creates an adversarial relationship. The way the Rangers run their business is extremely short sighted which, along with the spin off, confirms that the current management will not own the team much longer. I give it 5 yrs tops. In the mean time, they will not care at all about the fans or their opinions. They will strive to build a competitive team that makes the playoffs with consistency but will not take risks that would be necessary to become an elite team. They just want a strong balance sheet so they can maximize the sale price. The senior management of this organization epitomizes everything that's wrong with our economy. Living quarter to quarter is no way to have a long term partnership with your fans.

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08-16-2009, 11:07 AM
  #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darrenturcotte#8 View Post
Squeezing every single dollar you can ultimately harms ALL businesses as it severely decreases loyalty and creates an adversarial relationship. The way the Rangers run their business is extremely short sighted which, along with the spin off, confirms that the current management will not own the team much longer. I give it 5 yrs tops. In the mean time, they will not care at all about the fans or their opinions. They will strive to build a competitive team that makes the playoffs with consistency but will not take risks that would be necessary to become an elite team. They just want a strong balance sheet so they can maximize the sale price. The senior management of this organization epitomizes everything that's wrong with our economy. Living quarter to quarter is no way to have a long term partnership with your fans.
I can't see this decreasing loyalty. Wanna start charging additional money to watch the games on TV? That will decrease loyalty. These ads don't come out of the fans pockets.

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08-16-2009, 01:38 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I can't see this decreasing loyalty. Wanna start charging additional money to watch the games on TV? That will decrease loyalty. These ads don't come out of the fans pockets.
Its a cheap attempt to make a buck at the expense of the product. It certainly decreases loyalty as its one more reason I hate the management of this organization. Its a total lack of class and something I'd expect out of the Coyotes, not the New York Rangers.

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08-16-2009, 01:44 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by darrenturcotte#8 View Post
Its a cheap attempt to make a buck at the expense of the product. It certainly decreases loyalty as its one more reason I hate the management of this organization. Its a total lack of class and something I'd expect out of the Coyotes, not the New York Rangers.
I see. And the ads on the outfield walls and the walls behind homeplate for all major league baseball games - are those a total lack of class too? They weren't there 10-15 years ago.

There are a lot of things to pin on the management of this organization (and even more to pin on them for what they've done to the Knicks), but this ain't one of them.

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08-16-2009, 02:11 PM
  #181
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maybe hockey or the NHL will grow alot more with more funding from sponsors

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08-16-2009, 03:38 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
I see. And the ads on the outfield walls and the walls behind homeplate for all major league baseball games - are those a total lack of class too? They weren't there 10-15 years ago.

There are a lot of things to pin on the management of this organization (and even more to pin on them for what they've done to the Knicks), but this ain't one of them.
These ads are on the glass, in your face and a complete distraction unlike ads on the boards, walls, ect. Floating hologram images are simply not the same. The analogy you are looking for is if MLB put an ad directly above the Umpires head blocking out the screen/fans behind home plate. I like to see the glass and the crowd. Not freaking advertisements. This is artificially planted in a place where no physical ad could possibly go. So yea, its tacky, classless and a total embarrassment to the game. Not to mention, hockey's biggest obstacle has always been that the game doesn't translate well on TV. Its much better live. Think this is going to help THAT cause????

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08-16-2009, 03:40 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by ANTC View Post
maybe hockey or the NHL will grow alot more with more funding from sponsors
This is going to do about as much for hockey as Fox's floating hologram puck. Hockey doesn't have a huge following largely because the game doesn't translate well on TV. This does nothing but harm that cause.

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08-16-2009, 03:49 PM
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darrenturcotte#8 View Post
These ads are on the glass, in your face and a complete distraction unlike ads on the boards, walls, ect. Floating hologram images are simply not the same. The analogy you are looking for is if MLB put an ad directly above the Umpires head blocking out the screen/fans behind home plate. I like to see the glass and the crowd. Not freaking advertisements. This is artificially planted in a place where no physical ad could possibly go. So yea, its tacky, classless and a total embarrassment to the game. Not to mention, hockey's biggest obstacle has always been that the game doesn't translate well on TV. Its much better live. Think this is going to help THAT cause????
The technology makes it look like it's actually painted on the glass - they don't "float" at all. It makes it no harder to follow the game (at least for me), because all the action takes place in front of the ad. Just like when an outfielder goes to the wall to catch a flyball and I don't find it hard to follow the play because there's an ad behind him. In fact, I find it no more or less distracting than the ads digitally imposed on the wall behind the catcher in some baseball broadcasts.

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08-16-2009, 05:11 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
The technology makes it look like it's actually painted on the glass - they don't "float" at all. It makes it no harder to follow the game (at least for me), because all the action takes place in front of the ad. Just like when an outfielder goes to the wall to catch a flyball and I don't find it hard to follow the play because there's an ad behind him. In fact, I find it no more or less distracting than the ads digitally imposed on the wall behind the catcher in some baseball broadcasts.
Again, on a Wall vs replacing the glass and crowd. The baseball analogy would be if they put it above the umpire replacing the crowd behind home plate which MLB would never do because it would be a total sellout move and a disgrace to the game. I'm glad it doesn't effect your ability to enjoy the game. It effects mine. I like watching the crowd explode when someone scores. Maybe they can have the ad's changed color when someone scores and do the wave...

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08-16-2009, 05:47 PM
  #186
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The reason people should be pissed off is because it's inviting people who desire to control your behavior more power. If you don't ever take a stand they'll keep doing it.

It's gonna end up with strategically placed ads in the replays. It's where you're really paying attention to the screen. Enough already with the ads. Yesterday I watched an NFL game in 2 hours and 38 minutes due to no national ads. Normally an NFL game goes 3-3.5 hours with all the tv timeouts. That's time you could be spending outside or with your family. These people rob us of our lives.

I don't need anything distracting from the game. The NHL does everything it can to pull another dollar out of the fans' pockets without putting anything extra into the fan experience. Look at the way the NFL films films their games and takes you inside the experience. At least you get something for spending ridiculous money on the sport. Where's the NHL equivalent? They're too busy coming up with new expensive jerseys to pay respect to the game. No wonder they're always distant to every other sport....and they never learn.

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08-17-2009, 06:59 AM
  #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darrenturcotte#8 View Post
Its a cheap attempt to make a buck at the expense of the product. It certainly decreases loyalty as its one more reason I hate the management of this organization. Its a total lack of class and something I'd expect out of the Coyotes, not the New York Rangers.
The difference is the customers are fans, not just customers. There's only one product. Where else are they going?

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08-17-2009, 07:36 AM
  #188
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
The difference is the customers are fans, not just customers. There's only one product. Where else are they going?
Those are the failed words of every business that never saw the end of their business coming. The Cable Co's had that attitude for long time. Now Satellite and Fios are taking market share everyday as nobody has any loyalty to their cable co. Competition can come from anywhere. I agree that the diehards are the last to go, but in reality hockey has a hard enough time attracting new fans as is. It was only 5 years ago that many speculated that hockey would be a fringe sport. Several NHL teams are insolvent and can't survive today. The NHL has had it wrong for a long time and this is a perfect example of why. The question is not where are the existing fans going to go, but how do you get more? This is clearly not the right approach...

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08-17-2009, 07:37 AM
  #189
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Originally Posted by jrd303 View Post
The reason people should be pissed off is because it's inviting people who desire to control your behavior more power. If you don't ever take a stand they'll keep doing it.

It's gonna end up with strategically placed ads in the replays. It's where you're really paying attention to the screen. Enough already with the ads. Yesterday I watched an NFL game in 2 hours and 38 minutes due to no national ads. Normally an NFL game goes 3-3.5 hours with all the tv timeouts. That's time you could be spending outside or with your family. These people rob us of our lives.

I don't need anything distracting from the game. The NHL does everything it can to pull another dollar out of the fans' pockets without putting anything extra into the fan experience. Look at the way the NFL films films their games and takes you inside the experience. At least you get something for spending ridiculous money on the sport. Where's the NHL equivalent? They're too busy coming up with new expensive jerseys to pay respect to the game. No wonder they're always distant to every other sport....and they never learn.
Couldn't agree more...

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08-17-2009, 08:17 AM
  #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darrenturcotte#8 View Post
Those are the failed words of every business that never saw the end of their business coming
What end of the New York Rangers do they fail to see coming?

Quote:
Originally Posted by darrenturcotte#8 View Post
The Cable Co's had that attitude for long time. Now Satellite and Fios are taking market share everyday as nobody has any loyalty to their cable co.
Nobody has loyalty to their company because they were basically a monopoly. And nobody roots for their cable company.

I would also argue that DTV and FiOS is providing a better service.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darrenturcotte#8 View Post
Competition can come from anywhere. I agree that the diehards are the last to go, but in reality hockey has a hard enough time attracting new fans as is. It was only 5 years ago that many speculated that hockey would be a fringe sport. Several NHL teams are insolvent and can't survive today. The NHL has had it wrong for a long time and this is a perfect example of why. The question is not where are the existing fans going to go, but how do you get more? This is clearly not the right approach...
Where is the competition coming from?

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08-17-2009, 09:13 AM
  #191
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post

Where is the competition coming from?
Other sports and other forms of entertainment. It's like how boxing didn't take UFC seriously until it was surpassed (or will be soon). You and I aren't going anywhere, but the casual fan will disappear if the Rangers continue to run their operations the way they do. You never have to worry about the diehards. But to survive in a business, you need to grow while maintaining what you have. I believe the Rangers are going in the wrong direction as is the NHL as witnessed by the situation is Phoenix. That would never happen in the NBA, MLB or NFL. The NHL continues to make poor short sighted decisions (Verses), and the product never seems to be able to take the next step as a result. Hockey has always struggled with TV ratings because the game doesn't translate well on TV. Floating ad's that block out the arena and crowd will do nothing to help that cause.

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08-17-2009, 09:33 AM
  #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Nobody has loyalty to their company because they were basically a monopoly. And nobody roots for their cable company.

I would also argue that DTV and FiOS is providing a better service.
People don't have loyalty to cable because for the longest time while they were a monopoly they didn't give a crap about their customers & it showed. Prices kept getting jacked up, customer service was awful, & they didn't invest money to improve their product. A large part of the reason DirecTV & Fios offers a better product is that cable took the "where else are they going to go" approach towards their customers for too long & the product suffered. Cable had every opportunity to create loyalty among their customers, but they blew it. Now all they can really do is play catch up with the competition's technology & just try to beat them on price.

As far as the subway ads on the glass go, I can't stand them. I found them distracting when I watched games last season. It's just another way of squeezing out a little more money at the expense of the fans, since it clearly annoys a portion of the fan base. Granted, the NHL is no where near as bad with the advertising overload as other leagues (the NFL in particular), but I don't like to see anything that heads in that direction.

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08-17-2009, 10:06 AM
  #193
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Agree with DarrenTurcotte on this issue...

This is a slippery slope and once you allow this type of advertising it's likely going to snowball into even more unconventional advertising.... Pretty soon they'll start selling space on the puck and demand that the referee hold the puck out before each face-off so the conveniently placed cameras can zoom in on the puck logo before each face-off....

Either that or we'll get more advertisements added to our scoreboards... Or how about logos embedded in the corners of our TV screens... Why stop at superimposing ads on the glass if you can put them anywhere on our screen?

If the NHL can paint phrases like "Thank You Fans" near the blue-line on each side, what's to say that teams can't start selling that space to companeis so they can superimpose ads there? How about that?

See where this is leading... If people think that the ads behind the glass are the end of this, forget about it... It'll get worse...

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08-17-2009, 10:26 AM
  #194
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Originally Posted by HBK27 View Post
People don't have loyalty to cable because for the longest time while they were a monopoly they didn't give a crap about their customers & it showed. Prices kept getting jacked up, customer service was awful, & they didn't invest money to improve their product. A large part of the reason DirecTV & Fios offers a better product is that cable took the "where else are they going to go" approach towards their customers for too long & the product suffered. Cable had every opportunity to create loyalty among their customers, but they blew it. Now all they can really do is play catch up with the competition's technology & just try to beat them on price.
I don't disagree with any of this. In fact, I think I basically was saying the same thing.

Why point is you can't compare a sports team to a company. You don't root for a cable company. You have no real vested interest in them doing well. There's no emotional component.

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08-17-2009, 11:05 AM
  #195
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I don't disagree with any of this. In fact, I think I basically was saying the same thing.

Why point is you can't compare a sports team to a company. You don't root for a cable company. You have no real vested interest in them doing well. There's no emotional component.
I don't agree. I think you underestimated the negative emotional response that some people have towards the constant in-your-face advertising. Maybe it doesn't cause you to turn your back on the team and root for something else, but I know from personal experience, it creates a negative connotation with the franchise. I start looking at it as less of a team that i love, and more as a business. Obviously, thats the reality of the situation. Organized sports are a business, first and foremost...but you don't want your fans (customers) thinking about it that way. When I do think about the Rangers in that light, I start thinking about these things:

- the rising ticket prices, while salaries remain fixed
- the ridiculous loop-holes in the salary cap that the GM's exploit even tho they are more than partially to blame for the institution of that very cap (which led to the loss of a year of hockey)
- the fact that every action, no matter how basic, needs to be sponsored by some 3rd party entity that i most likely hate. Furthermore, some of these corporations that the Rangers are associating themselves with are less than solid institutions. For example, last season, the Rangers had AIG center ice logos in the midst of the financial $hit storm that enveloped AIG. There was a huge backlash in the public's perceptions of companies like AIG, yet their logo sat proudly at center ice for a week or so after the meltdown.

The list goes on. So maybe a floating Subway ad doesn't make me turn my back on the Rangers, but then again, maybe it does push me in the direction of holding off on buying a jersey, attending a hockey game, etc.

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08-17-2009, 12:54 PM
  #196
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I think you underestimated the negative emotional response that some people have towards the constant in-your-face advertising.
Disagree. The emotional response is to something new and different, a distraction, or as DT#8 said, an obstruction to part of the view. If it was floating banner that said "Let's Go Rangers", I think you'd still hear the same complaints.

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08-17-2009, 01:11 PM
  #197
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Not to defend MSG, but:
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/cab...ses-2009-07-30
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At Madison Square Garden, revenue fell 1% to $207.3 million, and the unit took a loss of $8.4 million. Decreased playoff revenue at MSG Sports and fewer concerts and other entertainment events contributed to the unit's revenue decline. Costs jumped by $21.4 million on severance costs and salary increases.
The fact is that MSG is losing money. With the Knicks sucking, the Rangers only playing 3 home playoff games, and the place being old as balls causing decreased concerts and special events, MSG is losing money. So this is one of the ways they are trying to make some money. It's also one reason why Rangers tickets continue to rise. Rangers fans better take a vested interest in the Knicks, because until they start to make the playoffs and win back fans, we're going to suffer more and more.

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08-17-2009, 02:28 PM
  #198
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Looking back, I was a pretty vocal critic of the glass ads, and it really did distract me. However, the distraction soon dissipated and I became used to them. I'd expect that by the end of this season I'll barely pay any attention to them.

I still worry about the whole slippery slope deal--that this is just the beginning--but I'm becoming more and more resigned to the inevitability with each passing day.

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08-17-2009, 04:01 PM
  #199
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
Disagree. The emotional response is to something new and different, a distraction, or as DT#8 said, an obstruction to part of the view. If it was floating banner that said "Let's Go Rangers", I think you'd still hear the same complaints.
Well why is it a distraction? Because it's an in-your-face advertisement. It goes against logic that a huge glowing logo would be present on the clear glass. And DT #8 is right. The crowd is a big part of hockey and this logo successfully blocks part of it out. You know it won't take very long for some genius within the MSG marketing department to figure out a way to put logos on the entire glass around the rink.

And no, I don't think a "Let's Go Rangers" sign would garner an equal response. A Let's Go Rangers sign isn't trying to sell me anything that I didn't already want when I tuned into the game in the first place. It would be looked at as cheezy and tasteless, but harmless none-the-less. What I feel when i see the Subway sign, is a continued sliding slope of what we as the viewer are expected to accept when we try to enjoy a game. Believe it or not, there actually is a line that can get crossed.

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08-18-2009, 03:21 PM
  #200
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I don't agree. I think you underestimated the negative emotional response that some people have towards the constant in-your-face advertising. Maybe it doesn't cause you to turn your back on the team and root for something else, but I know from personal experience, it creates a negative connotation with the franchise. I start looking at it as less of a team that i love, and more as a business. Obviously, thats the reality of the situation. Organized sports are a business, first and foremost...but you don't want your fans (customers) thinking about it that way. When I do think about the Rangers in that light, I start thinking about these things:

- the rising ticket prices, while salaries remain fixed
- the ridiculous loop-holes in the salary cap that the GM's exploit even tho they are more than partially to blame for the institution of that very cap (which led to the loss of a year of hockey)
- the fact that every action, no matter how basic, needs to be sponsored by some 3rd party entity that i most likely hate. Furthermore, some of these corporations that the Rangers are associating themselves with are less than solid institutions. For example, last season, the Rangers had AIG center ice logos in the midst of the financial $hit storm that enveloped AIG. There was a huge backlash in the public's perceptions of companies like AIG, yet their logo sat proudly at center ice for a week or so after the meltdown.

The list goes on. So maybe a floating Subway ad doesn't make me turn my back on the Rangers, but then again, maybe it does push me in the direction of holding off on buying a jersey, attending a hockey game, etc.
It is a business and if ads in the year 2009 are what makes you realize that professional sports team are a business than you are either very young or one of the luckiest people on the planet.

I also am confused as to how you think salaries are fixed?

And I would much rather have things sponsored than pay extra for my tickets. There are a lot of complaints about ticket prices on these boards and as far as I am concerned anything that does not take my time that helps them make money go ahead. And that includes putting corporate logos on the uniform. I know the people on this board are going to go nuts when that happens, but it will be a part of all major sports uniforms in the US by 2015. And if you think it will cause fans to walk away, then explain to me the negative impact it has had on nascar and European soccer.

As for the AIG logo's being on the ice last year, there was a contract, and it may have been a poorly written contract if it did not include an escape clause. And honoring contracts may be something that is falling out of favor in this country. On the other hand, i dont care what the ads say, i just want the advertisers to pay so i don't have to.

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