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Ottawa - Dallas Trade

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Old
08-18-2009, 10:39 PM
  #101
piqued
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Eriksson's season doesn't look like a fluke on paper, in your mind, or anywhere else. He's had a steady straight line upward in production ever since he entered the league. If anything he botched more chances than anyone else on the team last season and still ended up with 36 goals. I wouldn't trade him straight up for Heatley, never mind Ott and a pick.

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08-19-2009, 10:17 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by SensFutureD View Post
All I can say is Dallas fans over-rate there players way way way way way too much...
All fans overrate their own team's players and underrate other team's players. Most of the proposals involving Neal & Benn have them as throw in's like they're 4th or 5th round picks.

Another thing to understand about Stars fans.. It's been a LONG time since we've had any nice scoring forward prospects drafted/recruited & developed within the organization. Morrow was pretty much all we had for several years. Now we have a several extremely promising kids (Eriksson, Neal, Brunnstrom, Benn, Glennie, plus about 3 others in juniors that nobody ever mentions). So yeah.. We're going to be a bit tight-fisted.

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Originally Posted by SensFutureD View Post
Heatley is a player that doesnt come around often...Benn hasnt even stepped on an NHL ice surface yet but your saying he will be better then Heatley...give me a break.

Also Neal may of had a good rookie season but he will not be better then Heatley...Not many players become Heatley's caliber.
Agreed. Heatley obviously has more value than 19-21 year old kids.

But that doesn't mean that the Stars have a spot for him on the roster or in the budget

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08-19-2009, 10:40 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
I find the back and forth between our two respective fanbases interesting. The Stars and Sens are two verrry different organizations, in how they play on the ice, and in overall organizational philosophy. The Stars have always been a "spread the wealth" type of club, where a handfull of 20 goal scorers with one or two 30 goal scorers gets the job done. The Sens load up all of their best talent on one line and let the chips fall where they may. The year the Sens went to the Cup Finals the top line did the vast majority of the scoring...to the tune of a 39 point drop-off from their line to Mike Fisher. In 07-08 that drop-off was 29 pts....in 08-09 it was a 32 point drop-off.

You will never see a Stars team with statistical breakdowns like that. It isn't that one way is right one is wrong, it's just that these two organizations have very different philosophies, and those philosophies have shaped the respective current lineups. For the Stars to make a trade like this for Heatley would be to change the direction that has been very successfull over the last 10-13 years.
joe niewendyke hasn't done anything to show his philosophies. He was involved heavily with the leafs in fletcher and hes a great man but the most we know about how he builds a team is with the leafs in the last yr and a half. Even that he was only the assistant GM so we have no idea how he is going to run the team. He will likely not run it the same as it was run before as obviously there is a reason the last GM was fired.

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08-19-2009, 10:41 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Patrick96 View Post
Last season was the first Eriksson had inflated stats. That's not an indicator that he would put up similiar or better numbers the following year, there was no statistical curve indicating he would improve, thus, it looks more like a fluke on paper.
What paper are you looking at?

Eriksson's stats over his three years..

***** 06/07 ; 07/08 ; 08/09
Games: 59 ; 69 ; 82
TOI/Gm: 13:10 ; 14:01 ; 19:49
Goals: 6 ; 14 ; 36
Assists: 13 ; 17 ; 27
Points/Gm: 0.32 ; 0.45 ; 0.77
+/-: -3 ; +5 ; +14
SOG/Gm: 1.32 ; 1.73 ; 2.17
Sh%: .077 ; 0.117 ; 0.202
TOI per goal: 130min ; 69min ; 45min

That is a rock solid progression in every category. Goals are the only thing that seem inflated, but he went from 6 to 14 (+133%) and then from 14 to 36 (157%). That's a bit of a pop, but inflated? A fluke? Wrong, especially considering the smooth, steady improvement in every other category.

With that said.. I don't agree with Stars fans that think he's a threat to consistently hit 40, much less 50. I think he'll settle in around the low 30's.

But to say that last year was a fluke on paper? Sorry man, that's a pretty weak statement.

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08-19-2009, 12:06 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Canuckle View Post
Essentially Oiler fans and Star fans are arguing who has the better deal for Heatley.
I think its sens and leaf fans to be honest

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Old
08-19-2009, 03:29 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Patrick96 View Post
I said he his season looks like a fluke on paper. Don't put words in my mouth and say that I sound stupid. Last season was the first Eriksson had inflated stats. That's not an indicator that he would put up similiar or better numbers the following year, there was no statistical curve indicating he would improve, thus, it looks more like a fluke on paper. Nonetheless, I followed up by saying Eriksson is a fine NHLer but one year of inflated stats doesn't mean he'll eclipse 40 the next. Anyway, I'm done explaining myself. I never meant to give you the impression that I thought Eriksson wasn't a good NHLer, I just think it's funny that his name was thrown into a proposal along with another 3rd liner and pick for Heatley and Stars fans are claiming they have their own 50 goal scorers and don't need Heatley!

Oh don't start your statement with Patrick, Patrick, Patrick..sigh. You sound like a father dissapointed with his kids and I'm not your kid. My name isn't even Patrick, this is my 12 year old brother's account. I don't need to create another for myself.
On paper?! Wtf kind of cop out is that? The games aren't played on paper. What does your statement even mean? That on paper, you look at statistics and not the games? Even then, anybody who has taken an intro stats class could look at his career numbers coupled with his age and tell that he is trending upward. Even that is evidence "on paper". I don't recall calling you stupid. I remember thinking it, and if I actually typed that I, well, I didn't mean to....

Nobody said you were calling Eriksson a bad NHL'er, whatever that is. Yes, you think he's a "fine" player. Now, is he just a fine player on paper, or on the ice, or where are we at in our mental framework at this point in the discussion. Good. Great. Most of us who get to see him over the course of a full season simply think he's more than just a "fine" or average player. For the record, nobody on the Stars side of things, especially not myself has intimated that we think Eriksson is a better goalscorer than Heatley. I will however say that I prefer what Eriksson brings to the table for this version of the Stars than Heatley, salary excluded.

haha, sorry about that high degree of condescension... but after pages of this back and forth virtually no new ground is being broken. We keep telling you guys how we value our players, and that for other (read, financial) reasons it is a pointless discussion in the first place because it CANNOT happen. And the only way it could, with Richards going the other way, it wouldn't make us better, but worse...which, again, has already been said over and over and over again.

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Old
08-19-2009, 03:53 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asd74 View Post
joe niewendyke hasn't done anything to show his philosophies. He was involved heavily with the leafs in fletcher and hes a great man but the most we know about how he builds a team is with the leafs in the last yr and a half. Even that he was only the assistant GM so we have no idea how he is going to run the team. He will likely not run it the same as it was run before as obviously there is a reason the last GM was fired.
Joe very well may come in here and turn everything around on its head. But it isn't very likely. The Stars organization is one of the stronger in the league in terms of front office continuity/leadership. And the "philosophy" I alluded to goes beyond front office personnel. My own personal feeling is that Les Jackson has done a lot of great work for the team and should have been named the lone GM two moves ago, without Brett Hull. Regardless, the organization has been emphasizing a trend toward a more attacking style of play already though, so to say that area of emphasis will be Nieuwy's fingerprint would be patently false. If the Stars go off to score more goals than they have in the last 15 years, it will be because of the organization's recent (2005 draft-present) drafting strategy of specifically targeting skill over grit.

When I talk about organizational philosophy being bigger than one person, whether that be player, GM, or owner look no further than when we brought in Hull as the "final piece". Yes, he was on the downside of his prime years, but even he had to buy into the defensive concept that Hitchcock had implemented in order to see top minutes on the Stars' best line with Modano and Lehtinen. Hitch was hired by Bob Gainey (the guy who the Selke was made for). So I can assure you, or anybody else that will argue the opposite: the Stars will always be a team who will go only as far as their defensive conscience takes them. Think of it in terms of Steelers football. They have a distinct identity. They have a kickass defense and they run the ball. They do this for decades, and when they get the quarterback who can make some plays himself they win championships.

Oh, and the reason the last GM(s?) was fired was IMO as much about an offseason coup for PR purposes as it was a hockey decision. Tom Hicks made that decision, and while I think Joe can get the job done, he replaces the guy (yes, I'm leaving Hull out of this because he wasn't really doing the duties of a GM, he's admitted as much on the record) that oversaw the recent drafts which have already yielded high quality young players, with more on the way...not to mention Jackson recruited and signed Brunnstrom, and traded away our backup goaltender (Smith) along with a checking line center (Halpern) and a player who was fairly one-dimensional and rather soft (Jokinen) for Brad Richards.

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