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Rangers Prospect #33

View Poll Results: Who's the 33rd most valuable Rangers prospect?
Chris Chappell 5 13.51%
Scott Stajcer 5 13.51%
Devin DiDiomete 1 2.70%
Paul Crowder 2 5.41%
Miika Wiikman 18 48.65%
Tysen Dowzak 6 16.22%
Voters: 37. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
08-19-2009, 12:25 PM
  #1
Beacon
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Rangers Prospect #33

Tough guy Justin Soryal won a spot for himself. Let's hope he turns into the next Darren Langdon. Recent signee Chris Chappell was added to the list. Look for him to rise very quickly on our list.

The possible additions to the voting rolls are: Locke, Maggio, Hillier, Ambuhl, Klassen, Hobbs, Skokan, Bahensky, Psurny, Zeliska.

TOP PROSPECTS

1. Artem Anisimov
2. Evgeny Grachev
3. Michael Del Zotto
4. Bobby Sanguinetti
5. Ryan McDonagh
6. Derek Stepan
7. Matt Gilroy
8. Chris Kreider
9. Michael Sauer
10. Ethan Werek


SECOND-TIER PROSPECTS

11. Tomas Kundratek
12. Dane Byers
13. Ryan Bourque
14. Brian Boyle
15. Corey Potter
16. Nigel Williams
17. Ilkka Heikkinen
18. David Kveton
19. Pavel Valentenko
20. Brodie Dupont


PROJECTS

21. Carl Hagelin
22. Chris Doyle
23. Dale Weise
24. Chad Johnson
25. Mitch Gaulton
26. Matt Zaba
27. Jordan Owens
28. Roman Horak
29. Max Campbell
30. Tomas Zaborsky


SUSPECTS

31. Mihail Pashnin
32. Justin Soryal



Last edited by Beacon: 08-19-2009 at 12:36 PM.
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08-19-2009, 12:30 PM
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I am voting for Dave Chappell.

6-4 212 pounds, team captain, OHL All Star.

In 68 games he had 76 points and 8 fights. Drives hard to the net and is actually a very good skater too.

Named the best overager in the OHL by a blog dedicated to that league. Excellent during the Development Camp.

Add David Skokan. Good tough center with decent skill. Established himself as a regular in the Slovak league, which from what I understand, is close in quality to the AHL.


Last edited by Beacon: 08-19-2009 at 12:40 PM.
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Old
08-19-2009, 12:36 PM
  #3
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add hiller

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Old
08-19-2009, 12:46 PM
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Chappell add Ambuhl

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08-19-2009, 01:03 PM
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Dowzek. Add Klassen.

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Old
08-19-2009, 02:21 PM
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I voted for Stajcer, our 5th round goalie from this year's draft, because none of the other players on the list would fetch a 5th round pick in a trade right now.

Add Klassen, if we're still adding.

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Old
08-19-2009, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
I am voting for Dave Chappell.

6-4 212 pounds, team captain, OHL All Star.

In 68 games he had 76 points and 8 fights. Drives hard to the net and is actually a very good skater too.

Named the best overager in the OHL by a blog dedicated to that league. Excellent during the Development Camp.

Add David Skokan. Good tough center with decent skill. Established himself as a regular in the Slovak league, which from what I understand, is close in quality to the AHL.


I'm repeating what I just posted in the #32 Thread. Not that these guys don't deserve a shot... they do. But it's very rare they make it.


We put way too much stock in "late bloomers" like Chappell, Pitlick or GIlroy on these boards. Whether it's 19-20 year-old juniors, or 20+ year-old collegians, it's quite common that older players dominate in their leagues playing against younger players. But if they didn't already make their mark at the start of their amateur careers, it's extremely rare that they have the natural talent needed to make the NHL. Remember Justin Wallingford, last year? It's like fool's gold, but every year people are always raving about some late bloomer that every other team missed.

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Old
08-19-2009, 02:30 PM
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Wiikman. Dowzak and then DiDiomete to round out my 35.

Add Skokan.

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08-19-2009, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jxmarts View Post
I'm repeating what I just posted in the #32 Thread. Not that these guys don't deserve a shot... they do. But it's very rare they make it.


We put way too much stock in "late bloomers" like Chappell, Pitlick or GIlroy on these boards. Whether it's 19-20 year-old juniors, or 20+ year-old collegians, it's quite common that older players dominate in their leagues playing against younger players. But if they didn't already make their mark at the start of their amateur careers, it's extremely rare that they have the natural talent needed to make the NHL. Remember Justin Wallingford, last year? It's like fool's gold, but every year people are always raving about some late bloomer that every other team missed.

True, but these guys still belong in the suspects section. It's not as if we are putting them in the top 10 or even top 20 ... or even top 30. It's possible that they will turn into Girardi. Most won't, but enough will.

I think that a big, tough guy who can skate and score garbage goals is worth a shot. I definitely think Chappell has 3rd line potential, maybe even second line if he truly keeps improving.

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08-19-2009, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jxmarts View Post
I'm repeating what I just posted in the #32 Thread. Not that these guys don't deserve a shot... they do. But it's very rare they make it.


We put way too much stock in "late bloomers" like Chappell, Pitlick or GIlroy on these boards. Whether it's 19-20 year-old juniors, or 20+ year-old collegians, it's quite common that older players dominate in their leagues playing against younger players. But if they didn't already make their mark at the start of their amateur careers, it's extremely rare that they have the natural talent needed to make the NHL. Remember Justin Wallingford, last year? It's like fool's gold, but every year people are always raving about some late bloomer that every other team missed.
I responded in poll 32 that other than Zaba and Boyle, there aren't any late bloomers garnering real votes. Boyle doesn't even really count, since he hasn't bloomed yet, but we're hoping he does.

I think 35+ is fine for UDFA players.

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Old
08-19-2009, 03:21 PM
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08-19-2009, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
I responded in poll 32 that other than Zaba and Boyle, there aren't any late bloomers garnering real votes. Boyle doesn't even really count, since he hasn't bloomed yet, but we're hoping he does.

I think 35+ is fine for UDFA players.

The one guy that really sticks out as far as I am concerned is Bourque. He shouldn't be in the top 20. In fact, I'd probably have him at 23-25.

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08-19-2009, 05:03 PM
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The one guy that really sticks out as far as I am concerned is Bourque. He shouldn't be in the top 20. In fact, I'd probably have him at 23-25.
Huh? What?

Wow. Well I guess your opinion will change greatly of him after you watch him in the WJCs come December.

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08-19-2009, 05:15 PM
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wiikman, add skokan

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Old
08-19-2009, 05:47 PM
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Jxmarts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
True, but these guys still belong in the suspects section. It's not as if we are putting them in the top 10 or even top 20 ... or even top 30. It's possible that they will turn into Girardi. Most won't, but enough will.

I think that a big, tough guy who can skate and score garbage goals is worth a shot. I definitely think Chappell has 3rd line potential, maybe even second line if he truly keeps improving.
You're right... Chappell at #32 or #33 is not a bad gamble at all. I quoted you because your message was the last one I saw, but I meant it to be more of a general comment than one directed at you or about Chappell specifically. I just wanted to send out my warning flare because too many of us get carried away by "late bloomer" stats. Most of the time, they're deceiving.

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08-19-2009, 06:19 PM
  #16
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Originally Posted by FLYLine24 View Post
Huh? What?

Wow. Well I guess your opinion will change greatly of him after you watch him in the WJCs come December.
There's no way Bourque is a full on prospect. He's a prototypical project. His odds of making the NHL are maybe 15%. The reason he was drafted in the 3rd round is that if he makes it, he'll be an impact player, so it's worth it to gamble a third rounder for someone who 5 years from now may be worth 3 first rounders.

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08-19-2009, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
There's no way Bourque is a full on prospect. He's a prototypical project. His odds of making the NHL are maybe 15%. The reason he was drafted in the 3rd round is that if he makes it, he'll be an impact player, so it's worth it to gamble a third rounder for someone who 5 years from now may be worth 3 first rounders.
Im not sure i know what that even means.

I don't consider him a project either. He's a Callahan type player, He doesn't need to grow into anything say like a Jessiman did(or lack of).

Its way to soon to gauge his chances of making the NHL, but I think he's got a much better shot then most in the 13-20 range. Especially the guys ranked over 20.

He's listed exactly where I would put him.

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08-19-2009, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
There's no way Bourque is a full on prospect. He's a prototypical project. His odds of making the NHL are maybe 15%. The reason he was drafted in the 3rd round is that if he makes it, he'll be an impact player, so it's worth it to gamble a third rounder for someone who 5 years from now may be worth 3 first rounders.
I'm not sure what you mean by "not a full on prospect."

He's not really a project. The skills are there to become a productive NHL player. The question with Bourque is whether or not he can physically handle the rigors of the NHL game.

Also, I'd counter that the reason he was drafted in the third round is due to his small stature. If he were a couple inches taller, he'd grade out to a first round pick, for sure.

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08-19-2009, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
I'm not sure what you mean by "not a full on prospect."

He's not really a project. The skills are there to become a productive NHL player. The question with Bourque is whether or not he can physically handle the rigors of the NHL game.

Also, I'd counter that the reason he was drafted in the third round is due to his small stature. If he were a couple inches taller, he'd grade out to a first round pick, for sure.
You just gave the reasons why he isn't likely to make the NHL. If he were half a foot taller, he'd be a great player. If he were even 3 inches taller, he'd be a much better prospect.

But as it stands, his odds of making the NHL aren't good. I'd like to see him succeed in the AHL or for the Canadian team in the World Championship vs. adults. I want to see him take some pounding and keep scoring. If he does that, then he's a top 10 prospect. Until then, he's a project.

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08-19-2009, 09:29 PM
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Take a look at Chris Doyle, who's only a year older than Bourque. He got 72 points in 59 games with 79 PIM. Had he not gotten injured, he'd have been his team's top scorer. He had the most points per game on his team.

He has also shown consistent progress every year in the QMJHL. He was in the top 25 last year and probably will be top 10 in the Q this year. Sure he has holes in his defensive game, but just like Bourque, he too has a great shot.

But it's much easier to teach defense than to teach height.

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08-19-2009, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
You just gave the reasons why he isn't likely to make the NHL. If he were half a foot taller, he'd be a great player. If he were even 3 inches taller, he'd be a much better prospect.

But as it stands, his odds of making the NHL aren't good. I'd like to see him succeed in the AHL or for the Canadian team in the World Championship vs. adults. I want to see him take some pounding and keep scoring. If he does that, then he's a top 10 prospect. Until then, he's a project.
Im not sure your even thinking of the right player.

Bourque is American and will play for the American WJC team after having a fantastic American WJ camp for the past 2 weeks playing on the top line (which has been talked about for the past 2 weeks in the Prospect thread)

And seriously, Chris Doyle and Bourque are not the same type of player at all. And teach height? That, once again, makes no sense and does not make him a project.

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08-19-2009, 10:48 PM
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It might be interesting when we're done if posters made up their own personal ranking list and passed them around.

Personally I think Bourque is a little high as well. Same with Kundratek and Kveton (though with Kveton that opinion more or less is based on not knowing whether he'll ever come back over here again). Guys I would put ahead of Bourque at the moment--Boyle and Potter who both have very good shots at making the team this year. Heikkinen who has a shot as well. Valentenko and Dupont (a former 3rd rounder like Bourque--with more experience and who does have NHL size). It may be that Bourque has the best hockey skills of the whole bunch but there are going to be question marks about his ability to compete at an NHL level up until when he gets an actual chance and actually proves he can. Looking at his size and he does look smaller than 5'9 he reminds me of Corey Millen who was a terrific skill player at every level (college WCHA, Olympics, AHL) outside the NHL and was able to carve out something of an NHL career but he was never able to really put it altogether and stick as an NHL player. Ryan's brother Chris seems to be having the same issue of sticking the last couple years.

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08-19-2009, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by FLYLine24 View Post
Im not sure your even thinking of the right player.

Bourque is American and will play for the American WJC team after having a fantastic American WJ camp for the past 2 weeks playing on the top line (which has been talked about for the past 2 weeks in the Prospect thread)

And seriously, Chris Doyle and Bourque are not the same type of player at all. And teach height? That, once again, makes no sense and does not make him a project.
1. I was sarcastic about teaching height to show that defense can be taught, but height is God-given.

2. I didn't mean WJC, I meant WC. I want to see Bourque play vs. adults and see how he stands up against them.

3. I made a mistake about him being a Canadian because that's what his dad was.

4. Just because a player is different, doesn't mean you can't compare him. Lisin is different from Staal, but we certainly know who's more valuable.


Last edited by Beacon: 08-19-2009 at 11:47 PM.
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08-20-2009, 02:32 AM
  #24
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Mikki Vikki, add Chapell

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08-20-2009, 02:38 AM
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Mikki Vikki, add Chapell
Chappell is alreay on the list.

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