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When will the CBJ make their next splash?

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Old
08-20-2009, 03:05 PM
  #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
I am in the "The right player is not available" crowd.
Are we calling that group 7?

I'd like to be in group 8:

"The Jackets won't make a splash, but in Howson I pretty much trust. On the other hand, I worry about Hitch."

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08-20-2009, 03:10 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Ar-too View Post
Are we calling that group 7?

I'd like to be in group 8:

"The Jackets won't make a splash, but in Howson I pretty much trust. On the other hand, I worry about Hitch."
haha, this group assignment almost needs to be in a sticky (not really, but it's a topic I'd have if I owned my own forums. I think it's fun to see where people stand.).

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08-20-2009, 03:19 PM
  #153
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08-20-2009, 04:25 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Nordique View Post
I doubt that Williams would have signed here for 1.5 million, regardless of what he said in the newpaper about wanting to stay in Columbus because its a great town.
Based on nothing....

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Furthermore, I don't think Bertuzzi comes here for 1.5, nor Prospal for 1.1.
Based on nothing...again...

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I would argue that ad hominem is frequently a result of frustration over the same stupidity continuously being repeated regardless of a quality logical argument against it.
This.

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Old
08-20-2009, 04:25 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Ar-too View Post
"The Jackets won't make a splash, but in Howson I pretty much trust. On the other hand, I worry about Hitch."
Yeah, I mean what kind of coach has he proven to be anyway...

A classic example of the omission of evidence that is contrary to a belief has about someone/something. Awesome.

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08-20-2009, 04:52 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Nordique View Post
I doubt that Williams would have signed here for 1.5 million, regardless of what he said in the newpaper about wanting to stay in Columbus because its a great town.

Furthermore, I don't think Bertuzzi comes here for 1.5, nor Prospal for 1.1.

My point I'm trying to make is that the Bluejackets don't have the same appeal to free agents that the Red Wings and Rangers do. Until we do, we're going to be a leg down in free agency. How do you change that? Well making the playoffs consistently is a good start.
I would disagree on Williams. I think had we offered 1.5M he would have stayed, however, I don't think Howson offers 1.5M to a player that, while better than some on the roster, is not a desparate need for this team.

I would ask...would you really want Bertuzzi at 1.5M and Prospal for 1.1? OK, maybe Prospal at 1.1 makes a nice 4th line center but he really doesn't fit on this team. In my opinion.

You are correct, however, that Columbus does not have the alure of Detroit. As for the Rags....how many players do you really see taking LESS to play for the Rangers? In my opinion they are the biggest over spenders of the bunch for suspect talent (in relationship to the price they pay for it). Who wouldn't go to the Rags for the money they shell out? Same would be true with the Flyers a couple years back. I hate to say it but if Detroit sucks the big one for a while I don't think you'll see players clammoring to go there and pull them out of the doldrums. I think athletes want two things....to play for a winner and/or to make as much money as someone is willing to pay regardless of winning and losing.

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08-20-2009, 05:14 PM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimayo View Post
....e.g. The Fermi Paradox...
So where is everyone..?

Attack the point not the pointer

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08-20-2009, 06:57 PM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert View Post
So where is everyone..?

Attack the point not the pointer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Adams
I have never seen anyone change their position based on a well-reasoned well-sourced argument. But I have seen people change their behaviour to avoid being mocked.
"You can't reason a person out of a position they didn't reason themselves into."

And the Fermi Paradox is one of the worst arguments ever made, based on so many faulty assumptions.

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08-20-2009, 08:49 PM
  #159
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Oh good gravy.

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Old
08-20-2009, 11:16 PM
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachWithNoTeam View Post
When will the CBJ make their next splash?
At the team pool party.

I heard Nash does a pretty good cannon ball.

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Old
08-21-2009, 03:11 AM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hashmarks View Post
Yeah, I mean what kind of coach has he proven to be anyway...
You know you disagree with me about Hitchcock, so I'm not sure what kind of response you're looking for here. I'll attempt this however:

A good coach who wears out his welcome and gets fired after a while?

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08-21-2009, 04:08 AM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Ar-too View Post
You know you disagree with me about Hitchcock, so I'm not sure what kind of response you're looking for here. I'll attempt this however:

A good coach who wears out his welcome and gets fired after a while?
Is there a coach who hasn't been fired?

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08-21-2009, 04:34 AM
  #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimayo View Post
Is there a coach who hasn't been fired?
No. What's your point?

I'm at the point where I think Hitch could start to wear out his welcome. I don't know how many players on this team are his type of guy. Nash has clearly bought in, but I don't know how many of the guys Nash can bring along.

I don't like how his style fits in today's NHL. I don't like how specific his requirements are.

Most of all, I blame him for the Zherdev trade.

So there. If you'd like to rehash any or all of that, feel free. I was trying not to by summarizing my feelings on this matter, but that's where I'm at.

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08-21-2009, 04:41 AM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Ar-too View Post
No. What's your point?
My point was a good coach who wears out his welcome and gets fired is kind of dumb. Every coach gets fired eventually. If he's a good coach, then what's your problem with him?

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I don't know how many players on this team are his type of guy. Nash has clearly bought in, but I don't know how many of the guys Nash can bring along.
All of them. This is Nash's team. Not to mention success will bring them along as well. I mean, first time making the playoffs tends to turn most players into believers.

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I don't like how his style fits in today's NHL. I don't like how specific his requirements are.
What requirements are those?

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Most of all, I blame him for the Zherdev trade.
Zherdev is why I started paying attention to Columbus, but even I know he doesn't have the heart to be a star in the NHL. That trade was a good one.

I mean I don't like hitch, mostly because he's a dick, but I'm not gonna argue with the fact that he's a good coach with a proven track record.

What is with people and their deep seated need to complain? I mean, it's seems like most of you just make up **** to give you a reason to ***** and moan.


Last edited by Jimayo: 08-21-2009 at 07:15 AM. Reason: Damn I'm drunk.
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Old
08-21-2009, 07:05 AM
  #165
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I just want the CBJ to win. I really couldn't care less if Hitch is a nice guy or if his players like him. If the CBJ win, I'll buy him a beer regardless of his personality. All successful coaches - Belichek, Urban Meyer, Tony Larussa, etc. - have their detractors in their locker room. Heck, the Pens were in the SCF a year ago and ran Therrien out of town. Hitch came to a situation in dire need of a culture change and that's what he's accomplished. Not sure if he could have done it by pandering or being warm and fuzzy.

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Old
08-21-2009, 07:14 AM
  #166
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Originally Posted by RBarRegular View Post
I just want the CBJ to win. I really couldn't care less if Hitch is a nice guy or if his players like him. If the CBJ win, I'll buy him a beer regardless of his personality. All successful coaches - Belichek, Urban Meyer, Tony Larussa, etc. - have their detractors in their locker room. Heck, the Pens were in the SCF a year ago and ran Therrien out of town. Hitch came to a situation in dire need of a culture change and that's what he's accomplished. Not sure if he could have done it by pandering or being warm and fuzzy.
I don't think that's in him.

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08-21-2009, 08:13 AM
  #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimayo View Post
Is there a coach who hasn't been fired?
Joe Paterno?

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Old
08-21-2009, 10:15 AM
  #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimayo View Post
My point was a good coach who wears out his welcome and gets fired is kind of dumb. Every coach gets fired eventually. If he's a good coach, then what's your problem with him?



All of them. This is Nash's team. Not to mention success will bring them along as well. I mean, first time making the playoffs tends to turn most players into believers.



What requirements are those?



Zherdev is why I started paying attention to Columbus, but even I know he doesn't have the heart to be a star in the NHL. That trade was a good one.

I mean I don't like hitch, mostly because he's a dick, but I'm not gonna argue with the fact that he's a good coach with a proven track record.

What is with people and their deep seated need to complain? I mean, it's seems like most of you just make up **** to give you a reason to ***** and moan.
Wow. We've never talked about ANY of THIS before. NOW I'M CONVINCED! THANKS PAL!

Not.

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08-21-2009, 02:21 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by Ar-too View Post
Wow. We've never talked about ANY of THIS before. NOW I'M CONVINCED! THANKS PAL!

Not.
I can see your position is entirely based on reason and logic.

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Old
08-21-2009, 07:02 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by Ar-too View Post
You know you disagree with me about Hitchcock, so I'm not sure what kind of response you're looking for here. I'll attempt this however:

A good coach who wears out his welcome and gets fired after a while?
That is just silly and quite irrational.

I don't give a dam if you hate Hitch, my issue with your post was the insinuation was that he is somehow an unproven commodity. He isn't. His track record in this league as a head guy far exceeds Howson's therefore makes your position lack credibility, imo and leads me to believe that you only hate Hitch because you want to, not for any logical reason.

First off, if you cared to examine the situations in which he was fired, the conditions were similar: a change of GM and a big change in leadership on both teams. In case you want to add something new to your ability to assess the situation further (which I know you don't, you are are happy with disliking him for illogical, baseless reasons), he was brought back by Dallas for an interview the very same summer he was fired. He chose to go to philadelphia.

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Originally Posted by Ar-too View Post
No. What's your point?

I'm at the point where I think Hitch could start to wear out his welcome. I don't know how many players on this team are his type of guy. Nash has clearly bought in, but I don't know how many of the guys Nash can bring along.
All just baseless opinion and another invented reason to dislike him. Plus, wouldn't it speak more to Nash's leadership abilities than it would be anything to do with Hitchcock? I mean, if Nash--the Captain has bought in, a lot is now up to him.

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I don't like how his style fits in today's NHL. I don't like how specific his requirements are.
Yes, everyone checks and everyone scores and everyone is to work for the goalie is a lot to ask isn't it? I would be curious what YOU think his requirements are.

In case you hadn't noticed, only one team in the last 10 years who played a looser, full court press won anything--Carolina. The others have been tight checking, well defending organized play.

Quote:
Most of all, I blame him for the Zherdev trade.
You are inventing a reason to dislike him. It is illogical and irrational but people do it all the time.

First off, you are assuming that Howson didn't agree with moving that player. You are assuming that Hitch is/was calling the shots and absolving Howson in his role in the trade.



Secondly, the Zherdev trade did nothing but help us.

Thirdly, even your beloved Doug Maclean admitted that he made a poor character assessment upon his interviewing the kid (at age 17), and knows that the guy doesn't like hockey that much. (the fan590 interview with him that can be found either on their website or light the lamp has the link to it).


Quote:
So there. If you'd like to rehash any or all of that, feel free. I was trying not to by summarizing my feelings on this matter, but that's where I'm at.
Your feelings are such based nothing on assumption while ignoring the reality of his record as a coach.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimayo View Post

I mean I don't like hitch, mostly because he's a dick, but I'm not gonna argue with the fact that he's a good coach with a proven track record.

What is with people and their deep seated need to complain? I mean, it's seems like most of you just make up **** to give you a reason to ***** and moan.
Just curious why you think this because it isn't true at all. Based on that comment I am safely going to assume that you have never met him. He is firm but fair with his players, however, I have never seen him be anything but gracious, polite and engaging in public and private.


Last edited by hashmarks: 08-21-2009 at 07:36 PM.
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Old
08-21-2009, 07:54 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by Dr. Fire View Post
Signing Nash to an 8 year contract did not send a message to casual fans?

Howson having confidence in his young players improving to make the team better doesn't send a positive message to them?

Having Brass back for (hopefully) a full season isn't an improvement over last season?

Pahlson isn't an improvement over Malhotra?

Howson has said that he is still looking for a deal for a puck moving defenseman, hasn't he?

What the hell do you want?
Do you think that the casual fan gives two hoots about any of what you just posted? They wouldn't know Samuel Pahlsson from Samuel Adams. All they care about is winning. Howson can have as much confidence as he wants, if it doesn't manifest itself into wins on the ice, it really doesn't mean a thing. We lost Williams and made a minor upgrade on our third line at center. The rest of it comes down to wishing and hoping that people are healthy and/or improve. So, let's not pretend this year's team is dramatically better than last year's.

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For starters bargaining is something that is a huge part of my job.
Whoopee. Mine too.

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Just because he doesn't go all gung ho and publicize his every move or just sign NAME guys doesn't mean he isn't doing what is right for the team. Show me a quote where he has said anything other than he is willing to go into TRAINING CAMP with this squad. The world knows what we are looking for and yes that takes away from our bargaining strength early. We will be on even ground just prior to the season starting though.
On what basis do you think we'll be on "even footing"? Take a look at the number of quality UFA defenseman with offensive capabilities this off-season and next. They aren't a dime a dozen. And every other team knows that. If you want one, you have to be willing to pay the price. Hence Philly gave Anaheim as much as they did for Pronger.

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Originally Posted by KallioWeHardlyKnewYe View Post
Personally, I wouldn't move Juice. I'm not confident in the bonafide NHL scoring enough to move him. Maybe next year, but not now (which goes back to my great point about the most valuable assets not yet establishing themselves to a point that makes others expendable). I know I may be in the minority on that, but he's one of three guys on the team who I feel fairly certain is good for 20+ goals. For a team that has historically struggled to bury the puck, I'm reluctant to move that security.
Its a moot point. No one wants a guy whose scoring has continually diminished over several years at his price when guys like Prospal are stuck taking smaller deals.

Quote:
As for Jake v. Filatov, I've said numerous times in the past year, I'd be willling to move one (Filatov is my preference) in the right deal. But the two realties that have emerged in the last few months are 1) Howson and Co. don't seem interested in moving either and 2) Even if they did, there doesn't seem to be a worthy return out there. Maybe observation #1 is leading directly to obesrvation #2, but we can't esacpe the apparent reality that neither Jake or Filatov are going anywhere.
And that is a reality of Scott Howson's own choosing and I don't agree with his decision. Again, look at what a hard commodity a true offensive defenseman is to get on the market. I'd prefer to move Voracek over Filatov (Goals>Assists). That said, I'd give up a potential 30+ goal scorer for a bona-fide #1 defenseman because I know for a fact that if push came to shove we could acquire another goal-scoring wing via free agency. I'm not convinced we'll get many opportunities to land a #1 defenseman via UFA signing.

Centermen, two-way defensemen and true #1 goaltenders are the most difficult commodities to get via free agency. Wings are always available, so I wouldn't be too heartbroken if we had to trade one.

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08-21-2009, 08:12 PM
  #172
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Originally Posted by Jimayo View Post
Is there a coach who hasn't been fired?
Badger Bob Johnson.

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08-21-2009, 08:13 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
And that is a reality of Scott Howson's own choosing and I don't agree with his decision.
At the end of the day, this is the nut. Howson's decided on a course of action (with regards to building the team) and will proceed with it. He understands that his job depends on the results, nothing else. We can disagree and offer advice all we want and it does not matter. His job, his choices, his ass.

Over the past 2 years Howson has steadily made moves to radically change and improve the team. He also clearly does not believe his job is done. The goal is to compete for a Cup.

His track record makes me to believe that he knows what he's doing and thus trust his judgment. Obviously that is not your opinion.

Guess we'll agree to disagree.

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08-21-2009, 08:52 PM
  #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hashmarks View Post
That is just silly and quite irrational.

I don't give a dam if you hate Hitch, my issue with your post was the insinuation was that he is somehow an unproven commodity. He isn't. His track record in this league as a head guy far exceeds Howson's therefore makes your position lack credibility, imo and leads me to believe that you only hate Hitch because you want to, not for any logical reason.

First off, if you cared to examine the situations in which he was fired, the conditions were similar: a change of GM and a big change in leadership on both teams. In case you want to add something new to your ability to assess the situation further (which I know you don't, you are are happy with disliking him for illogical, baseless reasons), he was brought back by Dallas for an interview the very same summer he was fired. He chose to go to philadelphia.

All just baseless opinion and another invented reason to dislike him. Plus, wouldn't it speak more to Nash's leadership abilities than it would be anything to do with Hitchcock? I mean, if Nash--the Captain has bought in, a lot is now up to him.

Yes, everyone checks and everyone scores and everyone is to work for the goalie is a lot to ask isn't it? I would be curious what YOU think his requirements are.

In case you hadn't noticed, only one team in the last 10 years who played a looser, full court press won anything--Carolina. The others have been tight checking, well defending organized play.

You are inventing a reason to dislike him. It is illogical and irrational but people do it all the time.

First off, you are assuming that Howson didn't agree with moving that player. You are assuming that Hitch is/was calling the shots and absolving Howson in his role in the trade.



Secondly, the Zherdev trade did nothing but help us.

Thirdly, even your beloved Doug Maclean admitted that he made a poor character assessment upon his interviewing the kid (at age 17), and knows that the guy doesn't like hockey that much. (the fan590 interview with him that can be found either on their website or light the lamp has the link to it).


Your feelings are such based nothing on assumption while ignoring the reality of his record as a coach.



Just curious why you think this because it isn't true at all. Based on that comment I am safely going to assume that you have never met him. He is firm but fair with his players, however, I have never seen him be anything but gracious, polite and engaging in public and private.
Honesty, let Ken Hitchcock stand on his own merit, he doesn't need your help.

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08-21-2009, 09:54 PM
  #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaCosta Nostra View Post
Joe Paterno?
As for NHL head coaches go I don't think Ruff has ever been fired?

Columbus is Hitchcocks last stand-if he fails to win more than a first round sweep in the coming years his career will be over.


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