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What to do? - question about a biased official

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Old
08-24-2009, 06:33 PM
  #1
BraveSirRobin
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What to do? - question about a biased official

Before I begin, I should say that very rarely do I have major issues with rec league referees. Sometimes they miss calls, but for the most part they're pretty decent and fair. However there is one official who I have major issues with.

We had two issues this past summer season, one which a player on our team was butt-ended in the face for trash talking (leaving a large gash just above his eye), and another where a large-scale fight occurred after the opposing team hit one of our players from behind, sending him head first into the boards. Both games were officiated by this ref. After both games, he made a report that the incidents were our fault. When we inquired why he blamed us the following week, he flat out said "I don't like your team."

Well, during the playoffs the team we played scored a goal in which my stick was knocked out of my hand (I'm the goalie.) I protested to this guy, who was officiating that game, and he claimed he didn't see it happen (I'm pretty sure he did, but I can't prove it.) A few minutes later it happened again (although no goal.) I again brought it to his attention that my stick was again knocked out of my glove, and he finally replied "Because you deserve to lose and I don't care."

What exactly should we do? We've lodged a complaint about this official in a past season after he basically said the same thing about not liking our team. The majority of the games we play with other officials are pretty much clean with few penalties. The games with him officiating usually end up with us on the PK or playing 4 on 4 (sometimes 3 on 3) through at least half of the game, the game stats even show this. There are also two other teams in a higher division saying the same thing about this guy being very selective in who he likes. The league doesn't seem to do anything, or very little. Its getting to the point where if he officiates a game it seems to sap out a great deal of joy we have while playing.

I don't intend to come off sounding whiny, but this seems to be an ongoing issue and I was hoping someone would have some insight on what to do. Anything would be helpful!

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08-24-2009, 06:39 PM
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Gunnar Stahl 30
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find out who runs the league and demand to talk to them about it face to face.

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08-24-2009, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveSirRobin View Post
Before I begin, I should say that very rarely do I have major issues with rec league referees. Sometimes they miss calls, but for the most part they're pretty decent and fair. However there is one official who I have major issues with.

We had two issues this past summer season, one which a player on our team was butt-ended in the face for trash talking (leaving a large gash just above his eye), and another where a large-scale fight occurred after the opposing team hit one of our players from behind, sending him head first into the boards. Both games were officiated by this ref. After both games, he made a report that the incidents were our fault. When we inquired why he blamed us the following week, he flat out said "I don't like your team."

Well, during the playoffs the team we played scored a goal in which my stick was knocked out of my hand (I'm the goalie.) I protested to this guy, who was officiating that game, and he claimed he didn't see it happen (I'm pretty sure he did, but I can't prove it.) A few minutes later it happened again (although no goal.) I again brought it to his attention that my stick was again knocked out of my glove, and he finally replied "Because you deserve to lose and I don't care."

What exactly should we do? We've lodged a complaint about this official in a past season after he basically said the same thing about not liking our team. The majority of the games we play with other officials are pretty much clean with few penalties. The games with him officiating usually end up with us on the PK or playing 4 on 4 (sometimes 3 on 3) through at least half of the game, the game stats even show this. There are also two other teams in a higher division saying the same thing about this guy being very selective in who he likes. The league doesn't seem to do anything, or very little. Its getting to the point where if he officiates a game it seems to sap out a great deal of joy we have while playing.

I don't intend to come off sounding whiny, but this seems to be an ongoing issue and I was hoping someone would have some insight on what to do. Anything would be helpful!
File a complaint to the Ref director. Its in your rights as a player and it is the only thing you can really do.

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08-24-2009, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Gunnar Stahl 30 View Post
find out who runs the league and demand to talk to them about it face to face.
Do not do this. Dont "demand" anything. Wont get you anywhere.

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08-24-2009, 06:46 PM
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Do not do this. Dont "demand" anything. Wont get you anywhere.
well obviously the first complaint didnt work

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08-24-2009, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Gunnar Stahl 30 View Post
well obviously the first complaint didnt work
He never said who it was filed to. Needs to go to the ref director not the league. Its a rec league, most of them dont give a **** about the players.

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08-24-2009, 07:55 PM
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We used to have an official who would drop the puck between the legs of the home team (he owned the rink). After 2 or 3 games of this during the season his shins got in the way on the faceoffs. When that didn't work he "got in the way of" a couple of icing attempts. Problem solved. And by the way the icing attempts were below the waste. Don't hurt the guy, but rubbing a few bumps for a couple days may do the trick. And if he hates your tean even more maybe he will be so outrageous as to finally draw the attention of your league's officials.

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08-24-2009, 09:58 PM
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how close is the next nearest rink? nothing talks like taking your money elsewhere? otherwise if there are no other solutions, like steelhead said send a couple of clearing attemps of his a%* a sore butt will at least give you some satisfaction.

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08-24-2009, 10:28 PM
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If your complaints fall on deaf ears, you can try another league.

Realistically though - players and teams are generally easier to come by for league directors than refs. Your complaints might be falling on deaf ears simply because there are not many other options. That also might be the reason he is so blatant about his biases.

Although, to be fair - your post is only one side of the story. Not saying your post is untrue, just that he probably sees it differently, and so might the opposing teams in the two incidents you directly reference.

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08-25-2009, 02:01 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveSirRobin View Post
............he flat out said "I don't like your team."

......he finally replied "Because you deserve to lose and I don't care."
Ask him what precisely his beef is. Do you guys play like a bunch of *******s or what?

You could see about having you games scheduled around him if it gets to be really bad ?

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08-25-2009, 02:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveSirRobin View Post
Before I begin, I should say that very rarely do I have major issues with rec league referees. Sometimes they miss calls, but for the most part they're pretty decent and fair. However there is one official who I have major issues with.

We had two issues this past summer season, one which a player on our team was butt-ended in the face for trash talking (leaving a large gash just above his eye), and another where a large-scale fight occurred after the opposing team hit one of our players from behind, sending him head first into the boards. Both games were officiated by this ref. After both games, he made a report that the incidents were our fault. When we inquired why he blamed us the following week, he flat out said "I don't like your team."

Well, during the playoffs the team we played scored a goal in which my stick was knocked out of my hand (I'm the goalie.) I protested to this guy, who was officiating that game, and he claimed he didn't see it happen (I'm pretty sure he did, but I can't prove it.) A few minutes later it happened again (although no goal.) I again brought it to his attention that my stick was again knocked out of my glove, and he finally replied "Because you deserve to lose and I don't care."

What exactly should we do? We've lodged a complaint about this official in a past season after he basically said the same thing about not liking our team. The majority of the games we play with other officials are pretty much clean with few penalties. The games with him officiating usually end up with us on the PK or playing 4 on 4 (sometimes 3 on 3) through at least half of the game, the game stats even show this. There are also two other teams in a higher division saying the same thing about this guy being very selective in who he likes. The league doesn't seem to do anything, or very little. Its getting to the point where if he officiates a game it seems to sap out a great deal of joy we have while playing.

I don't intend to come off sounding whiny, but this seems to be an ongoing issue and I was hoping someone would have some insight on what to do. Anything would be helpful!
Where do you play? I was sort of expecting some lame complaint about reffing when I saw your avatar, but if he flat out says he doesn't like your team there is something wrong with the guy. I mean you just don't do that.

Seriously go to another rink. If you have requested that he not ref your games and the league still has done nothing then leave.

Why play at that rink if you aren't having fun there anymore?

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08-25-2009, 02:57 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelhead16 View Post
We used to have an official who would drop the puck between the legs of the home team (he owned the rink). After 2 or 3 games of this during the season his shins got in the way on the faceoffs. When that didn't work he "got in the way of" a couple of icing attempts. Problem solved. And by the way the icing attempts were below the waste. Don't hurt the guy, but rubbing a few bumps for a couple days may do the trick. And if he hates your tean even more maybe he will be so outrageous as to finally draw the attention of your league's officials.
Under the waist or not, that's assault in any jurisdiction and you're lucky you were not charged. There are ways to deal with things like this in beer leagues (or any league), but physical assault is never tolerable.

There is a reason I refuse to officiate adult rec leagues, and it's players who threatened me and tried to do **** like this simply because they didn't like some of my UNBIASED calls. Had I continued, the reactions to me doing my job would have likely led to me using my authority to screw the players who were wrongly let back onto the ice by the league. Rec leagues are supposed to be just that.. recreational. IE: For fun. We all have jobs to go to the next day, yet too many players think there are NHL scouts in the stands.

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08-25-2009, 03:04 AM
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So........do you have any thoughts for the op?

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08-25-2009, 05:01 AM
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just my two cents..

Sorry to hear that, must be frustrating op. Of course, this story is one sided, but you might end up noticing yourself if you see the ref in certain way "in the heat of the game" or if there's actually something (I mean those "I don't like your team"-comments, if word for word, are just insolent) to look at.

Is it possible to collect some evidence, such as boxscores and so on..? I mean if you really want to point out there's a pattern, the league could listen to you if you have some numbers to show. How about that?

If you're saying the games with other refs are somewhat "clean", how about comparing your games' records and boxscores (penalties) with the games with this ref and the others. If it's possible, compare also the other teams games to yours when he's in the games.

One thing also, if he tends to "dislike" teams, you might not be the only one. If your league is not professional-serious, other teams feeling the same about him could help you to solve this. Say, if both playing teams "demand" that certain official is not on the ice, that could work. no?

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08-25-2009, 07:47 AM
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If complaining doesn't work, start checking the guy every game until he's conscience. Quit the league before you can be thrown out, find a new one.

Or maybe have someone film a game with him officiating for further proof.

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08-25-2009, 08:04 AM
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a 2-hander will solve your issues

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08-25-2009, 09:25 AM
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"accidentally" put a puck or two past his head a few times during a game to show that your team thinks the feeling is mutual.....

oops, I thought it said "what not to do"

Actually the thought of taking your team and money elsewhere is probably your best bet, unless he refs in several leagues in town. In that case, you might be screwed.

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08-25-2009, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveSirRobin View Post
Before I begin, I should say that very rarely do I have major issues with rec league referees. Sometimes they miss calls, but for the most part they're pretty decent and fair. However there is one official who I have major issues with.

We had two issues this past summer season, one which a player on our team was butt-ended in the face for trash talking (leaving a large gash just above his eye), and another where a large-scale fight occurred after the opposing team hit one of our players from behind, sending him head first into the boards. Both games were officiated by this ref. After both games, he made a report that the incidents were our fault. When we inquired why he blamed us the following week, he flat out said "I don't like your team."

Well, during the playoffs the team we played scored a goal in which my stick was knocked out of my hand (I'm the goalie.) I protested to this guy, who was officiating that game, and he claimed he didn't see it happen (I'm pretty sure he did, but I can't prove it.) A few minutes later it happened again (although no goal.) I again brought it to his attention that my stick was again knocked out of my glove, and he finally replied "Because you deserve to lose and I don't care."

What exactly should we do? We've lodged a complaint about this official in a past season after he basically said the same thing about not liking our team. The majority of the games we play with other officials are pretty much clean with few penalties. The games with him officiating usually end up with us on the PK or playing 4 on 4 (sometimes 3 on 3) through at least half of the game, the game stats even show this. There are also two other teams in a higher division saying the same thing about this guy being very selective in who he likes. The league doesn't seem to do anything, or very little. Its getting to the point where if he officiates a game it seems to sap out a great deal of joy we have while playing.

I don't intend to come off sounding whiny, but this seems to be an ongoing issue and I was hoping someone would have some insight on what to do. Anything would be helpful!
I have no idea what you mean by "the league doesn't seem to do anything or very little". What exactly did they do when they received the complaint? If they're not saying why your team is being singled out by this ref or mediating the disagreement then I think your team would be better off finding a better league to play in. The fact that other teams are complaining gives you leverage to force a change -- 3 teams threatening to leave should force them to take a more serious look at the problem.

As to your team's reputation. . . your team obviously has one, whether it's deserved or not. If your team mates are overly mouthy, conspicuously physical in a non-checking league there are refs who will put you immediately on their *hit list. If you continue to view this guy as the enemy you will have big problems any time he refs your game. If you respect his judgement and find out why he's got a major hate on your team you could earn at least a fair shake from him. Be honest -- aren't there a few guys on your team who push it too far?

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08-25-2009, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by EmptyNetter View Post
I have no idea what you mean by "the league doesn't seem to do anything or very little". What exactly did they do when they received the complaint? If they're not saying why your team is being singled out by this ref or mediating the disagreement then I think your team would be better off finding a better league to play in. The fact that other teams are complaining gives you leverage to force a change -- 3 teams threatening to leave should force them to take a more serious look at the problem.

As to your team's reputation. . . your team obviously has one, whether it's deserved or not. If your team mates are overly mouthy, conspicuously physical in a non-checking league there are refs who will put you immediately on their *hit list. If you continue to view this guy as the enemy you will have big problems any time he refs your game. If you respect his judgement and find out why he's got a major hate on your team you could earn at least a fair shake from him. Be honest -- aren't there a few guys on your team who push it too far?
According to the background, only for this ref. Games called by other refs are apparently much more normal in terms of penalties.

You need to see the director of the league, and if that doesn't work, "clearing attempts" are kind of a time honored thing in hockey.

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08-25-2009, 12:15 PM
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Best bet is to video tape a couple games and if, upon calm review of the tape, you feel you are still justified in your complaints, provide a copy to both the league and the head of the local referee association.

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08-25-2009, 12:36 PM
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Have you tried buying him a beer?

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Old
08-25-2009, 07:29 PM
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BraveSirRobin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dick341 View Post
Where do you play? I was sort of expecting some lame complaint about reffing when I saw your avatar, but if he flat out says he doesn't like your team there is something wrong with the guy. I mean you just don't do that.

Seriously go to another rink. If you have requested that he not ref your games and the league still has done nothing then leave.

Why play at that rink if you aren't having fun there anymore?
I play at Ice Town in Riverside. We did play in Ontario for a year, and we've seriously considered moving back there on multiple occasions. The big issue though seems to be cost, Ontario is a bit more expensive than Riverside, which may be a drawback to a few players. Also the rinks in the area (there's three out here) are known to share officials every so often. That said we are seriously considering a move to a different league if things stay the same.

Quote:
I have no idea what you mean by "the league doesn't seem to do anything or very little". What exactly did they do when they received the complaint? If they're not saying why your team is being singled out by this ref or mediating the disagreement then I think your team would be better off finding a better league to play in. The fact that other teams are complaining gives you leverage to force a change -- 3 teams threatening to leave should force them to take a more serious look at the problem.

As to your team's reputation. . . your team obviously has one, whether it's deserved or not. If your team mates are overly mouthy, conspicuously physical in a non-checking league there are refs who will put you immediately on their *hit list. If you continue to view this guy as the enemy you will have big problems any time he refs your game. If you respect his judgement and find out why he's got a major hate on your team you could earn at least a fair shake from him. Be honest -- aren't there a few guys on your team who push it too far?
Well, as far as we know, nothing was done. We lodged the complaint back in February and he still officiates there. Although since then he seems to officiate more of the upper division games, so maybe something was said? I don't know for sure. This upcoming weekend is registration, so not only will the hockey director be there, the owner will as well. At least one of the other teams will be there, so we won't be alone in voicing displeasure.

Are there a few guys who push it? Honestly, the only one who may push things too far is the one who was butt-ended. He has a bit of a short fuse and any little thing like a slash, shove, push, etc can make him lose it, although it depends. The things that got out of hand during those two games seems to be in retaliation or in defense of another player. Again, I am the goalie, so a lot of things I don't see. Then again, this only seems to happen during games in which he officiates, which I don't think is a coincidence. Its almost as if he loses control of the game while in other games refs seem to have a better handle on things. We have tried to be civil with this guy before, approaching him and asking him (calmly) why he made certain calls, and all we got was the usual "you guys play dirty" spiel.

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08-25-2009, 07:55 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schenn Him View Post
If your complaints fall on deaf ears, you can try another league.

Realistically though - players and teams are generally easier to come by for league directors than refs. Your complaints might be falling on deaf ears simply because there are not many other options. That also might be the reason he is so blatant about his biases.

Although, to be fair - your post is only one side of the story. Not saying your post is untrue, just that he probably sees it differently, and so might the opposing teams in the two incidents you directly reference.
You have a point, and it would not surprise me at all if they felt that way. The director now does seem to care more about the players than past directors did, but there's only really one other rink in the general area, and its a little smaller in terms of the amount of teams playing there. (to be honest there's another rink, but its close to 35 years old, falling apart and is mostly geared towards figure skating, broomball and beginner hockey. Not to mention the ice is atrocious.) So its not like losing a team would drastically hurt the league or anything.

I totally understand, not to mention I'm on the other side of the ice, so I miss a lot! The first incident wouldn't surprise me honestly if more was going on, but the second, to me, seemed like an intent to injure. Especially considering the player was our top scorer, had one interference penalty all season and already had two goals that game.

Quote:
Is it possible to collect some evidence, such as boxscores and so on..? I mean if you really want to point out there's a pattern, the league could listen to you if you have some numbers to show. How about that?

If you're saying the games with other refs are somewhat "clean", how about comparing your games' records and boxscores (penalties) with the games with this ref and the others. If it's possible, compare also the other teams games to yours when he's in the games.

One thing also, if he tends to "dislike" teams, you might not be the only one. If your league is not professional-serious, other teams feeling the same about him could help you to solve this. Say, if both playing teams "demand" that certain official is not on the ice, that could work. no?
Stats may come in handy, especially since they post them online. That first game we had over 66 penalty minutes when all was said and done, the next week we only had 3 (they make minor penalties last three minutes instead of two), then the week after that we had 6. I can't say anything for the other teams' stats, but for us we have that as some sort of proof.

That has actually happened in a game right after one of ours, which a ref neither team wanted was to officiate. However they had to play it as the official refused to get off. Its basically 'play or forfeit', unless the hockey director is there (which he occasionally isn't, mostly he's there for the travel team games it seems.)

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Old
08-25-2009, 08:47 PM
  #24
Juicy Couturier*
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1. Dont talk trash and expect to skate away unharmed.
2. Grip your stick tighter, really there is no reason you should have it knocked out of your hand more than once.\
3. there is almost 100% more to this story. It just seems weird that both instances your guys were totally innocent and the ref blamed it on you. He doesnt like you for a reason, most likely because of problems in the past. Keep your mouths shut and sticks to yourself and play the game and he wont have a choice but to put the whistle away.

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08-25-2009, 09:35 PM
  #25
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In the same theme, I have a problem too...

I'm 6'2 and about 230lbs, every time I go near someone smaller I get whistled for something - obstruction and interference mainly. If I have the puck and a smaller guy hits me or collides with me I get sent down. After a several games with this pattern continuing I asked the ref about it at the end of a game and basically he replied 'when a big guy and a little guy are 50/50, the little guy always wins'!!!

Never experienced anything like this before and everyone on the team can't believe it either. Their advice is just to let it go and play conservatively which really isn't my game, we even video taped the game to show the ref afterwards but he wouldn't listen!!!

I tried that and still the same result. What the hell am I supposed to do??? Any suggestions???

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