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When will the CBJ make their next splash?

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Old
08-22-2009, 06:25 AM
  #176
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Originally Posted by Robert View Post
As for NHL head coaches go I don't think Ruff has ever been fired?

Columbus is Hitchcocks last stand-if he fails to win more than a first round sweep in the coming years his career will be over.
No it won't. People in the NHL have a very clear understanding of how undermanned his teams in Columbus have been. They recognize that 80 points with that team before last year was amazing, and that getting into the playoffs with the 4th youngest team, Malhotra as a center and no puck moving d man was exceptional. He was able to squeeze everything he could from each and every player who had anything left to give.

Plus, since pretty much the day he arrived the team has turned around 180 degrees and they are playing in an organized manner, hard to play against, and are becoming a legitimate NHL team for the first time in it's existence.

Regardless of outcome, he will have no problem getting another job. There are coaches continually getting hired who have done far less than he has. There is a reason he is about to become a 3 time Olympian.

His career is etched far deeper than what he has done with the jackets...the fact that you can't recognize that is well...telling.

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08-22-2009, 02:05 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
Whoopee. Mine too.

On what basis do you think we'll be on "even footing"? Take a look at the number of quality UFA defenseman with offensive capabilities this off-season and next. They aren't a dime a dozen. And every other team knows that. If you want one, you have to be willing to pay the price. Hence Philly gave Anaheim as much as they did for Pronger.
If that is part of your job, I can not fathom how you could be any good at negotiating after reading the next part of your statement.

We will be on even footing because there are teams that HAVE to drop salary. Our group of Dmen got us to the playoffs last year and can do it again this year. We DO NOT have to make changes. Changes would make us better but are not a must do thing. So I guess you are partially right. We are not on even footing. We could actually stand pat and still be fine to make the playoffs with what we have. Given your help I have come to the light that the closer we come to the season the more of an upperhand we will hold in a trade with one of the teams needing to dump salary.

For god sake we have assets for once. Why must everyone continue to act as though all we have is other peoples' garbage like it was in the past.

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08-22-2009, 06:07 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by hashmarks View Post
That is just silly and quite irrational.

I don't give a dam if you hate Hitch, my issue with your post was the insinuation was that he is somehow an unproven commodity. He isn't. His track record in this league as a head guy far exceeds Howson's therefore makes your position lack credibility, imo and leads me to believe that you only hate Hitch because you want to, not for any logical reason.

First off, if you cared to examine the situations in which he was fired, the conditions were similar: a change of GM and a big change in leadership on both teams. In case you want to add something new to your ability to assess the situation further (which I know you don't, you are are happy with disliking him for illogical, baseless reasons), he was brought back by Dallas for an interview the very same summer he was fired. He chose to go to philadelphia.

All just baseless opinion and another invented reason to dislike him. Plus, wouldn't it speak more to Nash's leadership abilities than it would be anything to do with Hitchcock? I mean, if Nash--the Captain has bought in, a lot is now up to him.

Yes, everyone checks and everyone scores and everyone is to work for the goalie is a lot to ask isn't it? I would be curious what YOU think his requirements are.

In case you hadn't noticed, only one team in the last 10 years who played a looser, full court press won anything--Carolina. The others have been tight checking, well defending organized play.

You are inventing a reason to dislike him. It is illogical and irrational but people do it all the time.

First off, you are assuming that Howson didn't agree with moving that player. You are assuming that Hitch is/was calling the shots and absolving Howson in his role in the trade.



Secondly, the Zherdev trade did nothing but help us.

Thirdly, even your beloved Doug Maclean admitted that he made a poor character assessment upon his interviewing the kid (at age 17), and knows that the guy doesn't like hockey that much. (the fan590 interview with him that can be found either on their website or light the lamp has the link to it).


Your feelings are such based nothing on assumption while ignoring the reality of his record as a coach.



Just curious why you think this because it isn't true at all. Based on that comment I am safely going to assume that you have never met him. He is firm but fair with his players, however, I have never seen him be anything but gracious, polite and engaging in public and private.
Again, I'm not sure what your point here is. We've been through all this before and we clearly disagree. You have a personal relationship of some sort with Hitchcock which either makes you more reliable than me because you have more information, or less reliable than me because of your bias. Or both. You accomplish nothing by trying to convince of how wrong I am in any case.

You accomplish even less by being so insulting about it.

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Old
08-22-2009, 06:49 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Aging Goalie View Post
If that is part of your job, I can not fathom how you could be any good at negotiating after reading the next part of your statement.

We will be on even footing because there are teams that HAVE to drop salary. Our group of Dmen got us to the playoffs last year and can do it again this year. We DO NOT have to make changes. Changes would make us better but are not a must do thing. So I guess you are partially right. We are not on even footing. We could actually stand pat and still be fine to make the playoffs with what we have. Given your help I have come to the light that the closer we come to the season the more of an upperhand we will hold in a trade with one of the teams needing to dump salary.

For god sake we have assets for once. Why must everyone continue to act as though all we have is other peoples' garbage like it was in the past.
Indeed.

On a separate note.

With a full year of Brassard, a (hopefully) improved year from Voracek, a full year of Chimera, full year of Vermette and the addition of Filatov, our roster has already improved over last years.

Many will probably say that Chimera isn't the biggest factor, but if he plays like he did at the beginning of last year, then he could definately have a career year and score around twenty goals.

If you look at it this way, we've already improved our roster by quite a margin. If Modin can stay healthy (big if) then we've improved even more so.

And this is all before a full year of Mason. We had horrible goaltending at the beginning of last year.

Trading away assets to make big splash at this point would destroy everything that's been built thus far. Once we have enough assets to trade away assets, then it'll happen. Teams that make big splashes are the ones that have done well in the regular season and have good reason to believe that they are going deep into the playoffs. We aren't at that point. We have a promising future with the prospects we have right now, but if we trade them away, everything else could flop and we'll be without our assets and with a big splash player that turned out to be moot anyway.

Everyone keeps saying that the other side's argument is based on nothing. But at this point, it's all pretty much speculation. No one can say for sure how good the prospects will be, no one can say for sure that making a big splash will help us greatly: it hasn't in the past. Maybe putting Voracek and Filatov on the points on the PP will help us a lot, maybe it won't. Whether the argument is completely baseless or based on some sort of information. It doesn't matter. We are still an unproven team, and we made the playoffs, so what? We still have a lot to prove, and our situation is--in no uncertain terms--quite different than any other team's. Basing our situation on another team's may not be baseless, but it doesn't make it much stronger, imo.

Winning is the most important thing at this point. Getting a big name player short of Ovechkin or Crosby isn't going to put any causal fan in a seat. Winning will. We've improved greatly over just the past two years by staying the course and keeping conssitant with the plan. Why would you want to deviate from a plan that has been working and go back to one that didn't?

Like I said though, at this point it's all speculation. Once we have training camp and start the season the situation might change. At this point we have lots of potentially good prospects, that could potentially flop. We could trade them away and have the trade work out and get us deep into the playoffs. Just as likely though, is that the trade woldn't mean anything because we miss the playoffs and the very assets we traded away preformed very well. Either side is an argument based largely on opinion and little on substance. It could go either way in either situation: no one can predict the future.

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08-22-2009, 08:20 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
I submit that there is a Group 6 you omitted: "The Jackets won't make a splash because The Kids Are Alright, In Hitch/Howson We Trust."

Also, I'm pretty sure some folks here are in multiple groups.
I'm a Group 6 ... I think we've got something in this Howson feller. And I like the way he and Hitchcock mesh.

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08-22-2009, 08:24 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by jacketracket View Post
I'm a Group 6 ... I think we've got something in this Howson feller. And I like the way he and Hitchcock mesh.
.....but Howson will never sign another free agent and Hitch is washed up.....

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08-23-2009, 05:39 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by hashmarks View Post
Just curious why you think this because it isn't true at all. Based on that comment I am safely going to assume that you have never met him. He is firm but fair with his players, however, I have never seen him be anything but gracious, polite and engaging in public and private.
I meant in the dressing room. He's a hardass coach(not neccessarily a bad thing, but it's still dicky).

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08-23-2009, 05:42 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Robert View Post
Columbus is Hitchcocks last stand-if he fails to win more than a first round sweep in the coming years his career will be over.
What drugs are you smoking, and where can I get some? A stanley cup winning coach(a decade ago) is on his last legs because he suffered through a ****** philly team before moving on to Columbus?

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08-23-2009, 09:48 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Jimayo View Post
What drugs are you smoking, and where can I get some? A stanley cup winning coach(a decade ago) is on his last legs because he suffered through a ****** philly team before moving on to Columbus?
No drugs, I don't do that; but I will agree I was a bit harsh. Lets revisit this subject after Hitchcock wins his first playoff game as the head coach of the Columbus Blue Jackets.


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08-24-2009, 05:03 AM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Robert View Post
No drugs, I don't do that; but I will agree I was a bit harsh. Lets revisit this subject after Hitchcock wins his first playoff game as the head coach of the Columbus Blue Jackets.
So, after the playoffs this year then?

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08-25-2009, 08:46 AM
  #186
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Originally Posted by Ar-too View Post
Again, I'm not sure what your point here is. We've been through all this before and we clearly disagree. You have a personal relationship of some sort with Hitchcock which either makes you more reliable than me because you have more information, or less reliable than me because of your bias. Or both. You accomplish nothing by trying to convince of how wrong I am in any case.
Just pointing out that you have no rational or logical reason to dislike him...you just dislike him because you want to, that's all. There is nothing personal about the reality of his coaching record, it speaks for itself yet you chose to ignore it for personal reasons and decide that you are somehow unsure of him. YOU have made it personal, not me.

Quote:
You accomplish even less by being so insulting about it.
You feeling insulted? I wonder if that has anything to do with your PURELY emotional and illogical reasons for disliking Hitch.

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Originally Posted by Jimayo View Post
I meant in the dressing room. He's a hardass coach(not neccessarily a bad thing, but it's still dicky).
He is certainly demanding, but he is fair regarding what is best for the team as a whole. I am not sure if you notice, one of the few demanding coaches who doesn't throw his players under the bus in the media.

I just don't think you can really make changes or push players and get the most out of them while being a players' coach. It only works for a short time.

Hitch maintains great relationships with a lot of his former players. Sooner or later they realize that he was the way he was for their benefit and the greater good of the team.


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Old
08-25-2009, 10:17 AM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Ar-too View Post
I'm at the point where I think Hitch could start to wear out his welcome. I don't know how many players on this team are his type of guy. Nash has clearly bought in, but I don't know how many of the guys Nash can bring along.
I find it interesting you think this. I feel like nearly every single player on this roster fits Hitch's personality and expectations almost perfectly. There's definitely a mutual respect among everyone on the current roster that I can see.

Nash, Umberger, Vermette Hejda, Commodore have all publicly said, if I recall correctly, they like his structure and appreciate feeling prepared before a game. Vermette made a really big deal about this when he first was traded. That's a pretty important group of players to capture right there.

Obviously there is a big respect that Hitch has shown for Modin and Klesla despite injuries issues, etc. Tyutin is pretty quiet but Hitch gives him overall the most responsibility of any d-man.

I'm not going to continue going player for player, but I think everyone on this team is getting exactly what they want. Every player gets the respect he deserves and nearly all of them were rewarded with career years this year.

It's not easy and Hitch isn't buddy buddy with them by any stretch of the imagination, but who is?

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08-25-2009, 10:36 AM
  #188
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Hitch has the pedigree (read Stanley Cup), some big names from our team have praised his preparation and direction he provides (I'm taking them at their words), Hitch is well-spoken, seems like a very standup guy that demands accountability (I think we needed that) and past players that reportedly hated playing for him seem to now speak very highly how he elevated their games, they just didn't know it at the time. And for all of that, I love having Hitch as our coach and don't want to see him go.

All my opinion, not trying to persuade anyone or argue facts.

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08-25-2009, 02:39 PM
  #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hashmarks View Post
Just pointing out that you have no rational or logical reason to dislike him...you just dislike him because you want to, that's all. There is nothing personal about the reality of his coaching record, it speaks for itself yet you chose to ignore it for personal reasons and decide that you are somehow unsure of him. YOU have made it personal, not me.

You feeling insulted? I wonder if that has anything to do with your PURELY emotional and illogical reasons for disliking Hitch.
The fact that you disregard my reasons for disliking him and being concerned about him does not mean that they are irrational and illogical. Again, to quote myself:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ar-too
I'm not sure what your point here is. We've been through all this before and we clearly disagree. You have a personal relationship of some sort with Hitchcock which either makes you more reliable than me because you have more information, or less reliable than me because of your bias. Or both. You accomplish nothing by trying to convince of how wrong I am in any case. You accomplish even less by being so insulting about it.
I do not feel insulted in a vacuum. I've got fairly thick skin. You are being insulting and dismissive. I'd kindly ask you to stop.

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08-25-2009, 03:04 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Ar-too View Post
The fact that you disregard my reasons for disliking him and being concerned about him does not mean that they are irrational and illogical. Again, to quote myself:
You blame HItch for Zherdev being traded...that isn't irrational? (by the way, Zherdev is an unsigned player--seems like he doesn't really fit on ANY NHL TEAM)

You 'worry' about him as a coach...that isn't illogical? (considering you can just look at his coaching record and how the team has changed/improved with him behind the bench).

You think he is on the cusp of the 'losing the team'...paying no regard as to how hard the team plays with him behind the bench...that is rational?

You claim that because he has been fired twice that he isn't a very good coach--that is reasonable?

Right.

Please give me something definitive and reasonable as to why you would 'worry' about him as a coach and we might be able to have a discussion. Claiming that you don't think his expectations are realistic is fine, but please provide a sample of what you feel his expectations are. You haven't done anything within the thread to convince anyone that you are doing anything but talking out of...well..you know...

Until then, I stand by my assessment as you just don't like him because you don't want to. Plain and simple. Like I said before. It is fine--people chose to grab onto illogical and irrational thinking all the time.

Quote:
I do not feel insulted in a vacuum. I've got fairly thick skin. You are being insulting and dismissive. I'd kindly ask you to stop.
I would kindly ask you to address what has been directed to you within the context of the thread and stop trying to turn it personal. If you don't like what I am saying about your arguments, please provide something substantial in return.

You are the one who has attempted to make a 'personal relationship' with Hitchcock matter in this thread. It simply doesn't. There is nothing personal about his coaching record. If you are a fan of the jackets and are happy to see them seemingly turn the corner, one should be happy that he is at the helm and be able to recognize all that he brings.

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08-25-2009, 03:54 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by CoachWithNoTeam View Post
Looking at the direction management has chosen, to build through the draft and around the young core - Brassard, Voracek, Filatov, Mason, Russell, etc - makes me wonder when the next time we'll see a $3M+ free agent signing or acquisition will be. Obviously, most of our budget space will be invested in resigning the young kids.

Then you look at the contracts coming off the books after this off-season: Vermette, Torres, Modin, Klesla - With Boll and Russell as RFA's

Russell and Vermette are locks for being resigned... and Boll as a probably.

Modin is pretty much gone after this season. Torres could stay, depending on his asking price, but I would think that his money would go towards the kids. Klesla seems like a wildcard, but is probably gone.

Assuming those 3 are the only ones gone, thats $7.1M in space, but the jackets would be short a top 4 defenseman and two third-line forwards.
Modin's contract would probably cancel out with the raise that Brassard will be due. And probably the same for Torres' contract with Russell...

Anyway, our top six is set for the next few years, with holes only opening up at bottom six wings, which we have plenty of in our system...

So when are we going to see another move above maybe a Pahlsson type contract...
Of the players you mentioned alot depends on how they play this coming season. I really liked the way Torres came on at the end of the season and Vermette barely had time to settle in, both will probably be resigned. Klesla on the other hand may want to try a new team, he could be traded at the deadline.

As for that 5 million dollar or more splash player I don't think it will happen in the near future, unless we are one great player shy of the Stanley Cup..

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08-25-2009, 03:57 PM
  #192
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You blame HItch for Zherdev being traded...that isn't irrational? (by the way, Zherdev is an unsigned player--seems like he doesn't really fit on ANY NHL TEAM)
The fact that he's not on a NHL team has nothing to do with whether he should've been traded last year. This is the only part of your post that makes any sense, but it's disqualified by the fact that I openly admit a certain amount of irrationality on this particular topic. I like Zherdev as a player more than I like Hitch as a coach, regardless of how high maintenance he is.

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Originally Posted by hashmarks View Post
You 'worry' about him as a coach...that isn't illogical? (considering you can just look at his coaching record and how the team has changed/improved with him behind the bench).

You think he is on the cusp of the 'losing the team'...paying no regard as to how hard the team plays with him behind the bench...that is rational?
His track record is pretty clear. Lack of logic does not apply here. History speaks clearly enough on this topic to give rise to those who would be skeptical (me).

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You claim that because he has been fired twice that he isn't a very good coach--that is reasonable?
That's not at all what I said. Please read my original response and feel free to take issue with what I actually said.

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Originally Posted by hashmarks View Post
Please give me something definitive and reasonable as to why you would 'worry' about him as a coach and we might be able to have a discussion. Claiming that you don't think his expectations are realistic is fine, but please provide a sample of what you feel his expectations are. You haven't done anything within the thread to convince anyone that you are doing anything but talking out of...well..you know...

Until then, I stand by my assessment as you just don't like him because you don't want to. Plain and simple. Like I said before. It is fine--people chose to grab onto illogical and irrational thinking all the time.

I would kindly ask you to address what has been directed to you within the context of the thread and stop trying to turn it personal. If you don't like what I am saying about your arguments, please provide something substantial in return.

You are the one who has attempted to make a 'personal relationship' with Hitchcock matter in this thread. It simply doesn't. There is nothing personal about his coaching record. If you are a fan of the jackets and are happy to see them seemingly turn the corner, one should be happy that he is at the helm and be able to recognize all that he brings.
If you had asked me if I want to like him, I would have said "No". I don't want to like Hitchcock because I think his impact on the team has been a net positive short term, but I think the direction he has in mind is potentially dangerous. But you didn't ask me that question. All you've done is continue to insult me and dismiss my concerns.

I'm not trying to say that your personal relationship with Hitchcock matters any more or less than my personal concerns about Hitchcock, I'm just saying it matters in the context of what you have to say about him. You're not objective, that's all. Or do you believe that you are?

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08-25-2009, 05:40 PM
  #193
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The fact that he's not on a NHL team has nothing to do with whether he should've been traded last year.
The fact that Zherdev isn't on an NHL team only points to the fact that many people feel he isn't a good team player.

The fact that you think he shouldn't have been traded is your business. I, on the other hand, think they got a great return for him and don't believe Zherdev is a guy you can win in the playoffs with.

Regardless you have no idea what Hitch felt about Zherdev--I don't recall him saying anything more in the media other than he needed to get better at the team game and not so much one on one. For all you know, Hitch could be really ticked off at Howson for trading him, yet you blame Hitch for Zherdev's trade. Doesn't that seem a little like one is grasping for reasons to dislike someone?

Quote:
This is the only part of your post that makes any sense, but it's disqualified by the fact that I openly admit a certain amount of irrationality on this particular topic. I like Zherdev as a player more than I like Hitch as a coach, regardless of how high maintenance he is.
Fair enough. It also validates my belief of how much you care about the blue jackets success as a team.

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His track record is pretty clear. Lack of logic does not apply here. History speaks clearly enough on this topic to give rise to those who would be skeptical (me).
This does not make any sense to me. I am not sure what you are getting at.


Quote:
That's not at all what I said. Please read my original response and feel free to take issue with what I actually said.
Okay then..this is what you said:

Quote:
"The Jackets won't make a splash, but in Howson I pretty much trust. On the other hand, I worry about Hitch."
...followed by:

Quote:
A good coach who wears out his welcome and gets fired after a while?
Quote:
If you had asked me if I want to like him, I would have said "No". I don't want to like Hitchcock because I think his impact on the team has been a net positive short term, but I think the direction he has in mind is potentially dangerous. But you didn't ask me that question. All you've done is continue to insult me and dismiss my concerns.
My bad. You think he is a good coach, is helping the team, but still refuse to like him because of some perceived danger in his long term direction of the team? I would love to hear what you think the direction he has in his mind is. Again, you have invented a reason to dislike him, unless you have an ability to read his mind or have spent time with him discussing his direction. Have you?

This is logical and reasonable to you?

Quote:
I'm not trying to say that your personal relationship with Hitchcock matters any more or less than my personal concerns about Hitchcock, I'm just saying it matters in the context of what you have to say about him. You're not objective, that's all. Or do you believe that you are?
Who says I have a personal relationship at all with him? All I have said was that I know he isn't a dick like was originally mentioned by someone else. This was never the discussion between you and I.

His record isn't a matter of factoring objectivity into it at all. It is what it is.

There is no such thing as objective. We all have biased opinions regardless of how objective we think we are being.

The one thing that remains clear to me is that you are making up reasons to not like him. I don't find this logical, reasonable or rational, but people do it all the time.

All I know is that he is a hell of a coach, has the record, championships and accolades to prove it, the jackets have done nothing but improve under his coaching, and looking back at the previous teams he has coached, there are only good things to look forward to.

If Howson can get him some players that and the team continues to grow, players continue to develop, and we compete for the cup--beyond that, I could give a rats ass if he gets canned again. His job in Columbus will be fulfilled.

One way to measure a good coach isn't really about how many times he gets fired, it is really about if and how often he gets rehired.

To this point, I believe he has done a heck of a job with the roster he has had. Good on him.

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08-25-2009, 05:46 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by Ar-too View Post
His track record is pretty clear. Lack of logic does not apply here. History speaks clearly enough on this topic to give rise to those who would be skeptical (me).
I kind of think it's pretty clearly in his favor, myself. It's not as though there's lots and lots of coaches out there who've won Stanley Cups, and have gotten teams with a decidedly low amount of talent to overperform.

Early on in the season, when folks weren't yet meshing well, there were rumors going around about how Hitch had potentially "lost the team"; that there was a rumor that this had happened in Dallas and that's why he'd been removed, and an assumption was made that this was also true of Philadelphia. In time, as the wins started rolling in, most people were able to set this time of Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt aside. I'm not sure if you ever have, and I can't for the life of me imagine why.

(Well, okay, I can come up with some reasons, but I'm trying to be nice and give the benefit of the doubt. )

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08-25-2009, 05:58 PM
  #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
I kind of think it's pretty clearly in his favor, myself. It's not as though there's lots and lots of coaches out there who've won Stanley Cups, and have gotten teams with a decidedly low amount of talent to overperform.

Early on in the season, when folks weren't yet meshing well, there were rumors going around about how Hitch had potentially "lost the team"; that there was a rumor that this had happened in Dallas and that's why he'd been removed, and an assumption was made that this was also true of Philadelphia. In time, as the wins started rolling in, most people were able to set this time of Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt aside. I'm not sure if you ever have, and I can't for the life of me imagine why.

(Well, okay, I can come up with some reasons, but I'm trying to be nice and give the benefit of the doubt. )
The 'lost the room' thing are words the media uses when they don't really know what is going on, but have to come up with something and people seem content on accepting that as fact.

It is especially comical in philly...apparently he lost the room after 8 games and a larger roster turnover than the jackets experienced last year.

Apparently John Stevens came in and lost the room too, as that team plummeted firmly into last place and never recovered.

Leadership changed at the player level, GM level and hence coaching level both times Hitch was let go. It happens.

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Old
08-25-2009, 06:47 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
... time of Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt ... aside. I'm not sure if you ever have, and I can't for the life of me
Henceforth to be known as 'the dark days of FUD'.

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