HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

NHLPA fires Paul Kelly (UPD: player review of firing completed)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-27-2009, 04:29 PM
  #1
Fugu
Administrator
HFBoards
 
Fugu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: ϶(o)ϵ
Posts: 31,618
vCash: 500
NHLPA fires Paul Kelly (UPD: player review of firing completed)

http://www.tsn.ca/columnists/darren_dreger/?id=289014

Quote:
NHLPA executive director Paul Kelly, who has been on the job less than two years, is facing intense scrutiny according to union sources and his status may be challenged when the Players' Association's 30-member executive committee convenes Sunday and Monday in Chicago at a regularly scheduled meeting.

Sources tell TSN that NHLPA interim ombudsman, Buzz Hargrove, is expected to make a presentation to the committee identifying concerns within the association about Kelly's leadership. No details have emerged about the nature of the concerns.
...
Sources say a divide in leadership intensified in June at the summer meetings in Las Vegas when Hargrove, advisory board head Ron Pink and the advisory board addressed the membership privately and emerged with the executive committee's consent on a 5-year contract extension for NHLPA counsel, Ian Penny, without Kelly's consultation. A union source said that exclusion violated the PA's constitution. However, a another source predicts that point is likely to be debated in Chicago.

Author postulates that either Kelly might go, or perhaps Hargrove et al.

Escrow retention and the cap perhaps?


Last edited by LadyStanley: 12-16-2009 at 07:46 PM.
Fugu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-27-2009, 05:04 PM
  #2
y2kcanucks
Cult of Personality
 
y2kcanucks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Surrey, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 50,055
vCash: 696
Send a message via AIM to y2kcanucks
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
http://www.tsn.ca/columnists/darren_dreger/?id=289014




Author postulates that either Kelly might go, or perhaps Hargrove et al.

Escrow retention and the cap perhaps?
I could see that as being a key issue; however, a side note is that throughout this whole Phoenix Coyotes saga and on the issue of teams in potentially "bad" markets, the NHLPA has been quite silent. One would think that they would have a big say in all of this given that the revenues generated by all teams have a direct impact on player cost allocation.

__________________
http://www.vancitynitetours.com
y2kcanucks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-27-2009, 05:35 PM
  #3
LadyStanley
Elasmobranchology-go
 
LadyStanley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: North of the Tank
Country: United States
Posts: 59,169
vCash: 500
As the CBA is currently written, the NHLPA has *no* input on expansion or relocation of NHL franchises. (Also, any relocation or indemnity or expansion fees/monies are not included in HRR.)

So, other than private conversations, I doubt there's really much the NHLPA could say (or probably more appropriately, *want* to say and get involved in the embroilment) WRT Phoenix or other potential ownership/relocation discussions.

LadyStanley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-27-2009, 06:47 PM
  #4
goalie311
Registered User
 
goalie311's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,655
vCash: 500
Buzz Hargrove unhappy?
What a shocker!!!

The guy NEVER sees the glass as half full.....

goalie311 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2009, 07:20 AM
  #5
Bluefan75
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,166
vCash: 500
I heard this and am greatly alarmed. Buzz Hargrove has never understood market forces. The NHLPA is not the type of union Hargrove knows. I have to think the same people pushing the Ron Pink/Hargrove business are from the same faction that wanted Ted Saskin and pushed to cave in during the lockout. If the escrow is in fact the issue, I'd be curious to see how many of the players who are ticked off now were the same players willing to bend over without Vaseline "so we can just get back to playing hockey."

Something stinks here. I'm not sure if it's Pink trying an end run to get the job he couldn't get in an actual process, or if Hargrove is trying some backroom maneuvering to have his puppet in place....

I heard a real good comment made this moning about all this: Until the players get their act together and stop acting like a kid's circus, the Gary Bettmans of the world will continue to maintain their power. I don't want this to threadjack into a Bettman bash, but the point is that Bettman's performance almost doesn't matter when the PA basically lays it all out on a red carpet for him.

Bluefan75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2009, 07:40 AM
  #6
eliostar
Registered User
 
eliostar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,114
vCash: 500
Buzz Hargrove , who's idea was it to bring this nut on board.
The guy belongs in the previous century, the old union ideals have little place in today's world.

eliostar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2009, 10:10 AM
  #7
Bluefan75
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,166
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by eliostar View Post
Buzz Hargrove , who's idea was it to bring this nut on board.
The guy belongs in the previous century, the old union ideals have little place in today's world.
Not only that, but the union he is familiar is the polar opposite of the NHLPA. The CAW was about getting easily replaceable workers who have no direct impact on a customers buying decision("joe made that car so I'm buying it") more and more money and protections.

When a Crosby or an Ovechkin gets hurt, the person who takes their place cannot replicate what they do. People do factor in the people playing when deciding whether to buy a ticket or not.

Bluefan75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2009, 11:46 AM
  #8
Wetcoaster
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Out There
Posts: 54,910
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by eliostar View Post
Buzz Hargrove , who's idea was it to bring this nut on board.
The guy belongs in the previous century, the old union ideals have little place in today's world.
Hargrove became a pariah even in the union movement. He raided other unions and caused rifts in the Canadian Labour Congress.

The NDP (the traditional party of organized labour in Canada) suspended his NDP party membership on February 11, 2006. In retaliation the CAW severed all ties with the NDP.

No surprise since he had been actively undermining the NDP and its leaders for years.

So Hargrove's answer was to endorse the federal Liberals???? That was the last straw for the NDP because of the party policy of continuing to castigate the Liberals for the litany of scandal and corruption that lasted for years as revealed by the Gomery Commission.

If you want to cause dissension and problems in an organization just drop Buzz Hargrove in - instant civil war.

Wetcoaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2009, 04:20 PM
  #9
Kevin Malone
Registered User
 
Kevin Malone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,343
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by eliostar View Post
Buzz Hargrove , who's idea was it to bring this nut on board.
The guy belongs in the previous century, the old union ideals have little place in today's world.
This guy and his cronies have basically run Windsor into the ground with his 1970's ideology. Anyone who has watched the guy closely knows he cares about one thing and thats power. I can't believe the NHLPA are listening to a guy who doesn't even have a high school diploma.

Kevin Malone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-28-2009, 09:42 PM
  #10
Zombie Jesus
Registered User
 
Zombie Jesus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 489
vCash: 500
Stephen Brunt on the Kelly situation:

Kelly on NHLPA Hotseat

From the article:

There are suggestions that Kelly is in trouble for not taking a hard enough line (suggesting in one interview, for instance, that his job in the next contract negotiation was to avoid a lockout rather than to secure the best possible deal for the players). But many people inside and outside the NHLPAs membership are pointing fingers directly at Lindros (and his parents) now, suggesting that he is the driving force behind what appears to be a budding insurrection.

Zombie Jesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-29-2009, 09:58 AM
  #11
GSC2k2*
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,384
vCash: 500
Yep, the NHLPA certainly is strong. The next CBA negotiations will be very tough indeed for the NHL with such a united and powerful adversary.

GSC2k2* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-29-2009, 10:05 AM
  #12
Fugu
Administrator
HFBoards
 
Fugu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: ϶(o)ϵ
Posts: 31,618
vCash: 500
The sad part is that whoever is behind this faction, assuming the escrow and cap setting issues are factors, really doesn't get it. Sure, there is a trend towards longer contracts for key players, but I'd gander that even the majority of better players are not on ten year contracts-- or anything close to it. One only has to look at the squeeze on UFA's and some RFA's this year in order to get a full roster. Several players got raises, but the cap did not. Ergo, someone else has to take a cut. That's before we ever get to escrow retention rates as part of consideration.

Thus, it truly does benefit all players to maximize the cap level each year, and then just deal with escrow.

If these guys cannot figure that out, they have no chance whatsoever at any table where Bettman and Daly are sitting on the opposite side.

Fugu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-29-2009, 12:50 PM
  #13
BLONG7
Registered User
 
BLONG7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 13,564
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by eliostar View Post
Buzz Hargrove , who's idea was it to bring this nut on board.
The guy belongs in the previous century, the old union ideals have little place in today's world.
how true...let's not foget that the min wage is 500K in this sport also...

BLONG7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-30-2009, 11:54 AM
  #14
LadyStanley
Elasmobranchology-go
 
LadyStanley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: North of the Tank
Country: United States
Posts: 59,169
vCash: 500
http://www.thehockeynews.com/article...for-NHLPA.html

THN's Campbell thinks that firing Kelly would be the wrong direction for the NHLPA to take.

LadyStanley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-30-2009, 05:17 PM
  #15
LadyStanley
Elasmobranchology-go
 
LadyStanley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: North of the Tank
Country: United States
Posts: 59,169
vCash: 500
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=289357

Dreger indicates that interim ombudsman will be making presentation to NHLPA executive committee (the 30 team reps) today, and Kelly could be ousted.

LadyStanley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-30-2009, 05:35 PM
  #16
Wetcoaster
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Out There
Posts: 54,910
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=289357

Dreger indicates that interim ombudsman will be making presentation to NHLPA executive committee (the 30 team reps) today, and Kelly could be ousted.
There is the problem when you have Buzz Hargrove involved - expect civil war.

Wetcoaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-30-2009, 06:36 PM
  #17
stormtracker
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Guelph
Posts: 667
vCash: 500
The NHLPA likes to shoot itself in the foot when the League is not looking very credible in its handling of the Phoenix situation.

For those old enough to remember, this looks a bit like the Progressive Conservatives under Joe Clark. Even though the Trudeau Liberals seemed to be bungling the handling of the economy such as by raising oil prices when they voted against a PC
budget that called for higher taxes on energy, and being perceived as arrogant, the PC's were consumed with knifing their leader in the back.

Not a very good situation to go into the next bargaining session with such a house divided.

stormtracker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-30-2009, 06:37 PM
  #18
guyincognito
Registered User
 
guyincognito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 31,300
vCash: 500
I thought Kelly was brought in with the expectation he would be confrontational, maybe not in the obnoxious loudmouth way, but still... a 180 from Saskin who was way too close to the league for comfort (I don't think the emails would be an issue if he was a hardass that didn't lead a coup that caused the PA's defeat)

So, then it's not surprising that the core of the PA, which wants to fight the league on every mundane issue, and was perfectly content to let it crash and burn in 2005, would want a change.

guyincognito is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-30-2009, 06:44 PM
  #19
Viqsi
carrying the flag
 
Viqsi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: The Scary Internet
Country: United States
Posts: 22,196
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Viqsi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
Hargrove became a pariah even in the union movement. He raided other unions and caused rifts in the Canadian Labour Congress.

The NDP (the traditional party of organized labour in Canada) suspended his NDP party membership on February 11, 2006. In retaliation the CAW severed all ties with the NDP.

No surprise since he had been actively undermining the NDP and its leaders for years.

So Hargrove's answer was to endorse the federal Liberals???? That was the last straw for the NDP because of the party policy of continuing to castigate the Liberals for the litany of scandal and corruption that lasted for years as revealed by the Gomery Commission.

If you want to cause dissension and problems in an organization just drop Buzz Hargrove in - instant civil war.
How wonderful. Reminds me of the stories a Nashville-area friend of mine frequently tells about certain elements in the UAW.

I really hope Kelly gets through this one. "We can do so much better together" gets so much more leeway nowadays than "our way or the highway".

__________________
Remember - when you're a hockey fan, it's not "reckless driving", it's "good forechecking".
"Viqsi, you are our sweet humanist..." --mt-svk on the CBJ boards

Thanks, Howson, for cleaning up MacLean's toxic waste. Welcome, Kekalainen; let's get good things built!

Last edited by Viqsi: 08-30-2009 at 06:45 PM. Reason: the fix of grammar, needed it is
Viqsi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-30-2009, 11:12 PM
  #20
LadyStanley
Elasmobranchology-go
 
LadyStanley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: North of the Tank
Country: United States
Posts: 59,169
vCash: 500
http://tsn.ca/columnists/darren_dreger/?id=289357

As of about four hours ago, Hargrove recalled into meeting of executive committee with Kelly waiting outside.

LadyStanley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-31-2009, 12:01 AM
  #21
Fugu
Administrator
HFBoards
 
Fugu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: ϶(o)ϵ
Posts: 31,618
vCash: 500
http://twitter.com/DarrenDreger

# Kelly, Hargrove and general counsel, Ian Penny invited back in. Conclusion can't be far away...11 minutes ago from mobile web
#
Hargrove just emerged from the board mtng. player reps are still behind closed doors and Kelly and company are still waiting. 32 minutes ago from mobile web

Fugu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-31-2009, 02:49 AM
  #22
Hedberg
MLD Glue Guy
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BC, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,245
vCash: 500
http://twitter.com/darrendreger

Quote:
sources say Paul Kelly has been fired as the NHLPA's executive director.

Hedberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-31-2009, 03:05 AM
  #23
Wetcoaster
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Out There
Posts: 54,910
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedberg View Post
Here is the article confirming the firing:
http://www.tsn.ca/columnists/darren_dreger/?id=289357

So Kelly was not tough enough - time to bring back Bob Goodenow?

Wetcoaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-31-2009, 03:44 AM
  #24
guyincognito
Registered User
 
guyincognito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 31,300
vCash: 500
What a circus. Oh well, those that don't remember history are doomed to repeat it. The funny thing was that I thought Kelly was Chelios' boy, which makes this mystifying, unless he didn't live up to expectations.

So, they try a strike sometime in 2011?

guyincognito is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-31-2009, 04:02 AM
  #25
Ol' Jase
PLAYOFFS??
 
Ol' Jase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,785
vCash: 500
Good to see where Buzz goes, chaos still follows.

How he is anywhere near the NHLPA is an absolute travestry.

Ol' Jase is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:24 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.