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Predators Top 20 prospects, Fall 2009

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Old
08-26-2009, 08:58 PM
  #26
Gnashville
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Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
Wow, if that group is considered a "big drop off", then our future is very, very bright.
Yeah 3 current NHL'er in the big drop off category
What has Taylor Beck and Micheal Latta done over Jones and O'Reilly???? I wish they were ranked by actual talent rather than just draft position. I'd take the top five "Big drop off" guys over all the "good prospects" and 2 of the "Elite" guys. That actual list is somewhat correct even then it's higher draft round biased.

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08-28-2009, 06:25 PM
  #27
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the problem is you can't compare the talent of guys that haven't even played AHL games to guys that have. Same as you can't compare guys that haven't played NHL games to guys that have. You never know what will happen when they make that next step. ie. #21, you can try to forecast how they will do if you have similar players coming from similar leagues, but even then it's uncertain.

But for next season, I'd take the top "big drop offs" over the "elite" without a second thought.

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08-28-2009, 07:26 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by slanted View Post
the problem is you can't compare the talent of guys that haven't even played AHL games to guys that have. Same as you can't compare guys that haven't played NHL games to guys that have. You never know what will happen when they make that next step. ie. #21, you can try to forecast how they will do if you have similar players coming from similar leagues, but even then it's uncertain.

But for next season, I'd take the top "big drop offs" over the "elite" without a second thought.
Though its quite obvious you have employed the "next season" qualifier as a feigned attempt to directly answer the question (ie, a cop-out), I applaud your courage for fielding a question that is impossible to truthfully answer without the utmost humility -- especially when it was intended for another.

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08-28-2009, 08:01 PM
  #29
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It's a good thing that you are so "right" since noone seems to want to back up your list.

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08-28-2009, 08:49 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by JawandaPuck View Post
Though its quite obvious you have employed the "next season" qualifier as a feigned attempt to directly answer the question (ie, a cop-out), I applaud your courage for fielding a question that is impossible to truthfully answer without the utmost humility -- especially when it was intended for another.
I'm sorry, who are you?

And yes, your list after the first 5 or 6 is utter crap, since we feel like acting like children and using distasteful insults instead of discussing things like adults.

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08-28-2009, 10:46 PM
  #31
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Roman Josi is a terrific prospect. He is as close to a blue-chip prospect as you can get without actually being labeled one IMO.

The Predators, right now, have one of the best prospect systems in the NHL. There really isn't that much of a weakness to be honest. They have superb defense and goaltending prospects. They have an elite forward prospect with a bunch of decent prospects, and they have lots and lots of depth. It would be nice to have another high-end forward prospect, but this past draft might have provided 2 of those to begin with. I'm also not that down on Jones and Spaling.

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Old
08-29-2009, 04:27 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JawandaPuck View Post
Though its quite obvious you have employed the "next season" qualifier as a feigned attempt to directly answer the question (ie, a cop-out), I applaud your courage for fielding a question that is impossible to truthfully answer without the utmost humility -- especially when it was intended for another.
Shall I reiterate my point that making the comparison is impossible? I answered your question the best way it could be, with the current information at hand. Now when I finish my degree in fortune telling, I will be able to answer questions that require future information. But till then you'll have to accept "cop-out" answers to your questions, or don't ask them.

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08-29-2009, 05:58 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slanted View Post
Shall I reiterate my point that making the comparison is impossible? I answered your question the best way it could be, with the current information at hand. Now when I finish my degree in fortune telling, I will be able to answer questions that require future information. But till then you'll have to accept "cop-out" answers to your questions, or don't ask them.
I was actually feeling pretty neutral about your comments as I indicated above -- I even thought the original cop-out was somewhat clever -- but now you've gone and followed up that cop-out with another.

Although it should be self evident, let me state the obvious, "fortune-telling" and thoughtful scouting are two fundamentally different practices. The Pred's scouting staff has done a wonderful job of assembling top end talent (despite having to pick out of the top ten to acquire a couple of these young men).

But -- and this is point is more directed at some of the other posters -- to take such offense to the label "The BIG Dropp-off", enough so that such ludacris positions were taken as in post #26, is equivalent to revealing unnecessary insecurities.

I will grant you, I may have been unnecessarily harsh in my categorization of Josi and Spaling in my original ranking. Nevertheless, not all prospects are going to be stellar NHLers even if some have been so lucky enough to have already tasted the big leagues. And that's nothing to be ashamed of as a fan of the organization -- c'est la vie.


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08-29-2009, 06:51 PM
  #34
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no amount of "thoughtful scouting" will enable you to compare the talent levels of different players in different leagues. Which is what you're trying to do. All I said was that is the fundamental problem with this. I went and saw a 13 year old score 5 goals in a game of highly competitive hockey. People say he averages 3 goals a game. This doesn't mean he would be "elite elite". Who knows what happens when he hits the O and finds out he's just not as fast or big as everyone else. Once these guys have a year of AHL hockey behind them or even some NHL games, then we can compare how they did with the rookie years of others. I don't even know if Jones/Sulzer (O'reilly) are even considered prospects anymore, they have their spots.

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08-29-2009, 07:06 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slanted View Post
no amount of "thoughtful scouting" will enable you to compare the talent levels of different players in different leagues. Which is what you're trying to do. All I said was that is the fundamental problem with this. I went and saw a 13 year old score 5 goals in a game of highly competitive hockey. People say he averages 3 goals a game. This doesn't mean he would be "elite elite". Who knows what happens when he hits the O and finds out he's just not as fast or big as everyone else. Once these guys have a year of AHL hockey behind them or even some NHL games, then we can compare how they did with the rookie years of others. I don't even know if Jones/Sulzer (O'reilly) are even considered prospects anymore, they have their spots.
Then why should anyone bother reveiwing the HF rankings, or those of others (professional scouts, media or amateurs) that compile such lists. You would have us believe they are pursuing fruitless endeavours. And you'll use a ridiculous example such as the scouting of 13 year olds to emphasize a point, which if you were humble enough, you would now admit is invalid.

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08-29-2009, 08:25 PM
  #36
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I didn't say they don't try. I guess it's for people like you try and say one person is more talented than another. But we all know, alot don't live up to their projected talent, and alot surpass it. Except for you. Who insists draft position and HF ranking determine the talent of a prospect. But I'll wait and see how they do when they're pros, then I'll choose.

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08-29-2009, 10:18 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by slanted View Post
I didn't say they don't try. I guess it's for people like you try and say one person is more talented than another. But we all know, alot don't live up to their projected talent, and alot surpass it. Except for you. Who insists draft position and HF ranking determine the talent of a prospect. But I'll wait and see how they do when they're pros, then I'll choose.

The Preds have drafted well with their recent first rounders...not sure how that becomes the basis for some sort of argument. Oh wait it's not...it is an attempted personal "shot". Well then, let me now take this opportunity to put to bed this unsubstantiated notion.

I certainly don't have any hesitation calling a bust a bust. But I'd be shocked to see a true prospect ranking with the current top four not retaining their spots. If I'm wrong, I'd be happy to debate that list too.

But that's really beside the point isn't it? Your attempt to avoid the inevitable submission in our quasi-debate is as transparent as your semi-cleverly disguised cop-outs...all three of them no less.

But since you're all hot & bothered, I'll play ball. So what else you got? How about taking a swipe at my avatar? Let me have it, rookie.

Or, do you want to try to stay on topic?

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08-29-2009, 10:32 PM
  #38
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This will be my last post on the subject, you're like talking to a brick wall who trys to hide his lack of knowledge behind well worded sentences. Stick to studying english, and stay away from trying to look at all knowledgeable about Preds prospects. Just admit your list is highly flawed at best. The most glaring example being Ryan Jones in BIG DROP OFF LOL. His spot is locked up. He scored almost a PPG and over .5 goals a game in his AHL rookie season. Maybe hes at the bottom cause his draft position? hmmm, someone knows there talent. I'd love to write a block for cal, spaling, hornquist, santo, sulzer, Josi, but those who actually know these players know the low down. And I've already taught you enough. Bring some facts if you want to make a point not a bunch of poems.

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08-29-2009, 10:54 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slanted View Post
This will be my last post on the subject, you're like talking to a brick wall who trys to hide his lack of knowledge behind well worded sentences. Stick to studying english, and stay away from trying to look at all knowledgeable about Preds prospects. Just admit your list is highly flawed at best. The most glaring example being Ryan Jones in BIG DROP OFF LOL. His spot is locked up. He scored almost a PPG and over .5 goals a game in his AHL rookie season. Maybe hes at the bottom cause his draft position? hmmm, someone knows there talent. I'd love to write a block for cal, spaling, hornquist, santo, sulzer, Josi, but those who actually know these players know the low down. And I've already taught you enough. Bring some facts if you want to make a point not a bunch of poems.

Just as I suspected. Thanks for laugh, bud.

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Old
08-30-2009, 12:51 AM
  #40
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Back to the actual point of the thread:

I personally think that the team has come along ways in the last few years in addressing needs through drafting. As Enoch stated, we've got good players in all areas.

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08-30-2009, 01:20 AM
  #41
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Back to the actual point of the thread:

I personally think that the team has come along ways in the last few years in addressing needs through drafting. As Enoch stated, we've got good players in all areas.
We're fairly well-stocked at defense, in goal, and up the middle, but I still find our winger corps a bit lacking. We have Budish, who is solid, but we don't have a real dynamite prospect. I think that is the kind of player Poile goes for in the first round next year, and it's an area that the draft is looking fairly strong in.

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08-30-2009, 03:47 AM
  #42
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Okay, first the on topic stuff.....the Predators have been much better at drafting since Poile shook things up several years back with the scouts. I somewhat give him/the scouts a pass for maybe a couple more years to see how things go. The first...I want to say six(?) years...not so good but since then I think it's been much better.

Now to the off topic. YouWannaBrain???? Please go away! We aren't the hicks you think we are....we know our prospects and we don't need someone like you to tell us about them or rank them for us. I would actually suggest that you come to this board and ask US how our prospects should be ranked. I highly doubt many here would venture to other boards to rank their prospects for them......

But you keep going on acting like thee all knowing and we'll keep laughing at you like the ...... that you are.

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08-30-2009, 03:50 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post
We're fairly well-stocked at defense, in goal, and up the middle, but I still find our winger corps a bit lacking. We have Budish, who is solid, but we don't have a real dynamite prospect. I think that is the kind of player Poile goes for in the first round next year, and it's an area that the draft is looking fairly strong in.
True, we could use more help at wing, especially after losing Radulov. After Sully being gone so long and with Radu leaving I wondered how we'd get more wingers. I'm not as familiar with the prospects and drafts now a days though since I moved to Taiwan.

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08-30-2009, 06:05 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by nine_inch_fang View Post
We aren't the hicks you think we are
That thought never crossed my mind.


Quote:
Originally Posted by nine_inch_fang View Post
But you keep going on acting like thee all knowing and we'll keep laughing at you like the ...... that you are.
I'm pretty certain the ellipsis place holder isn't concealing the words "great guy". So let me say this, way to dispell the stereotype, big guy.



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Originally Posted by nine_inch_fang View Post
I would actually suggest that you come to this board and ask US how our prospects should be ranked.
So your retort is about etiquette? Though it sounds to me, you'd benefit moreso from a little overtime with Amy Vanderbilt's writings, I'm man enough to admit a mistake. My choice of words for the weaker group of prospects was controversial, no doubt. However, if you take a closer look at my original post, you'll see I used it in the context of the "hockey stick chart" reference.

I think some folks got it, or perhaps they just took it with a grain of salt; and so they didn't get their back up -- namely, lstcyr, OpenWheel, Enoch, and Braindead (to whom I thought I responded with due respect). And others, well they took some offense; but I said to myself, "no need for a come back...they are just being loyal fans."

The one going by Gnashville though, yes, to him I replied with a naked challenge (which the mod wisely deleted). And also I gave him fair warning, which he wisely heeded. But to be fair, you must admit he really stepped in it didn't he? Then Mr Slanted decided to try his hand at playing saviour. He really should have followed Gnash's lead considering the position the latter took.

And now you. You want to be the big hero to save Nashville TN from the enemy from the North.

Well let me lay your fears to rest my friend. I'm not an enemy of the wonderful state of TN. In fact, I'm quite the fan of the Pred's pipeline (I only bother to comment on those with a strong one -- the folks in Phoenix were very gracious when it came to my ranking, the Tampa guys were fun, the fans of St. Louis were splendid as well...btw, what a pipeline running into that town -- watch out for them Blues in the next couple years).

Also, I'm quite the fan of the Titans, Smash and Dash all the way. (And one certainly didn't have to be a fan to shed a tear for Steve McNair [may he rest in peace] and his poor children). Plus I hope the Vols' Ayers does well in Denver. I'd love to visit Graceland and the Grand Ole Opry someday. Heck I don't even hold it against you folks for "rejoicing" in the snatching of Vancouver's former Grizzilies. But I digress.

Back to you, hero. Since you feel so comfortable doling out advice for me, I shall not be a rude guest by witholding my own advice for you, my oh so welcoming host: I suggest for you simply, a sense of humor. Remember, it's hockey we're both fortunate enough to discuss here.


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Old
08-30-2009, 09:23 AM
  #45
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Guys, I've let this slide because the debate has been heated but not too confrontational. Lets keep it that way. I like seeing this debate raging. Its fun to see how this will turn out. No matter what you think about Puck's comments, I think it is intriguing to see an outsider's view on our prospects. I disagree on Josi and a few others, but I am also a Predators fan.

Anyways, keep it clean. If you want to get heated, fine, but leave the personal attacks out of it, or I am going to have to take action that I do not want to take .

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Old
08-30-2009, 10:30 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by JawandaPuck View Post
The one going by Gnashville though, yes, to him I replied with a naked challenge (which the mod wisely deleted). And also I gave him fair warning, which he wisely heeded. But to be fair, you must admit he really stepped in it didn't he? Then Mr Slanted decided to try his hand at playing saviour. He really should have followed Gnash's lead considering the position the latter took. (Sorry for the somewhat winded play-by-play.)
Actually I did post a reply but it got deleted somehow. I have been down on Pickard since we drafted him. He has bust potential IMO, Brian Finley has left a bad taste in my mouth and I do not trust Goalies drafted that high. He could not win the starting job for team Canada last year and had some bad playoff series. Ellis is too undersized to be effective, but could develop. I have questions about both guys right now, just as I had questions about Blum when we drafted him. He so far has developed well. Hopefully both guys prove me wrong.

Jones, and O'Reilly are going to play in the NHL this season i think. No way they should be considered big drop off guys. Just because they were drafted in later round does not make them talentless. Hornqvist was drafted last overall, but he's developed into a meaningful asset.

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08-30-2009, 12:20 PM
  #47
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Actually I did post a reply but it got deleted somehow. I have been down on Pickard since we drafted him. He has bust potential IMO, Brian Finley has left a bad taste in my mouth and I do not trust Goalies drafted that high. He could not win the starting job for team Canada last year and had some bad playoff series. Ellis is too undersized to be effective, but could develop. I have questions about both guys right now, just as I had questions about Blum when we drafted him. He so far has developed well. Hopefully both guys prove me wrong.

Jones, and O'Reilly are going to play in the NHL this season i think. No way they should be considered big drop off guys. Just because they were drafted in later round does not make them talentless. Hornqvist was drafted last overall, but he's developed into a meaningful asset.

Putting two and two together then, this is your 2009 Preds prospect ranking:
  1. Wilson
  2. Blum
  3. Jones
  4. Hornqvist
  5. Josi
  6. Spaling
  7. Santorelli
  8. Pickard
  9. Ellis
  10. Franson


Since the actual declaration was:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnashville View Post
I'd take the top five "Big drop off" guys over all the "good prospects" and 2 of the "Elite" guys.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

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08-30-2009, 05:26 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JawandaPuck View Post
Putting two and two together then, this is your 2009 Preds prospect ranking:
  1. Wilson
  2. Blum
  3. Jones
  4. Hornqvist
  5. Josi
  6. Spaling
  7. Santorelli
  8. Pickard
  9. Ellis
  10. Franson


Since the actual declaration was:




Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
1 Wilson
2 Blum
3 Jones
4 Hornqvist
5 Franson
6 Josi
7 Santorelli
8 Ellis
9 Spaling
10 Pickard
Problem is no one know how they will turn out. I am biased towards guy I have seen play more and the work ethic I see. Jones to me has a high work ethic.

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