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CBA/Waiver question

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Old
09-21-2007, 06:34 PM
  #26
Irish Blues
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Whether a player has a 1-way or 2-way contract has no effect on the waiver status of a player. None. Hannu Toivonen (STL) has a 1-way contract but is waiver-exempt until the end of the season or he plays 38 more NHL games [whichever comes first]; there's a slew of guys who have 2-way contracts who would have to clear waivers to go down. I'm on Mrs. IB's computer, otherwise I'd give a complete list of all the players who have 1-way contracts and are exempt from waivers. [It's a short list.]

The AHL salary does have an effect on the recall waiver status of a player, and I think there are two (2) players who would be subject to recall waivers initially this season because they've played fewer than 320 professional games [see below]. However, a player's AHL salary by itself has no effect on whether or not the player is subject to waivers going down.

If the player isn't exempt from waivers, there's no way to assign them there on an ongoing basis without having to clear. [Conditioning assignments don't require waivers, but there's a 14-day limit on the length of such assignments.]

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Last edited by Irish Blues: 09-21-2007 at 11:42 PM.
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Old
09-21-2007, 06:42 PM
  #27
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That's what I thought, but I've heard it so many times the other way I was starting to wonder. Though I didn't know that about recall waivers, so that's interesting to know. I knew I could count on you IB, thanks!

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09-21-2007, 07:12 PM
  #28
kdb209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seph View Post
Old thread, new question -- What's the deal with 2way contracts and waivers? I've heard a lot of people say that they have an effect on a players waivers eligibility, possibly based on the AHL salary in the 2way contract. But I have found nothing in the CBA to support this. Is it a myth, or is there some way based on the contract that you can skip waivers when sending someone to the AHL who otherwise isn't waiver exempt?
Two-way contracts do not have any effects on regular waivers when sending a player down. They do have an effect on Re-Entry Waivers (sort of).

Players earning a salary above a certain threshold ($100K for '07-'08) in the AHL are subject to Re-Entry waivers if recalled to the NHL(*). All players on One-Way deals are obviously over this threshold. Players on two-way deals may or may not be, depending upon their two-way AHL salary.

(*) There is an exemption for minor league veteran players - players with 320 (180 for goalies) professional games and not more than 40 / 80 NHL games played over the last year / two years.

See CBA Article 50.9(g) for the gory details on Re-Entry waivers.

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09-21-2007, 07:35 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Blues View Post
I'm on Mrs. IB's computer, otherwise I'd give a complete list of all the players who have 1-way contracts and are exempt from waivers. [It's a short list.]
I assume that they are all either goalies like Toivonen (4 yr waiver exemption and 3 yr ELS in the common case) or skaters who sign their first SPC at age 22+ (ELS length < waiver exemption) who haven't hit their NHL games played threshold.

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09-21-2007, 09:38 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdb209 View Post
I assume that they are all either goalies like Toivonen (4 yr waiver exemption and 3 yr ELS in the common case) or skaters who sign their first SPC at age 22+ (ELS length < waiver exemption) who haven't hit their NHL games played threshold.
10 players have one-way contracts and are currently exempt from waivers:

Andrew Greene, NJ
Josh Harding, MIN
Vadim Khomitski, DAL
Ville Koistinen, NSH
Staffan Kronvall, TOR
Joel Lundqvist, DAL
Cory Murphy, FLA
Alexander Semin, WSH
Hannu Toivonen, STL
Noah Welch, FLA

Toivonen and Harding were both 19 when first signing; the rest were at least 22, and Murphy is a special case since he's 29 and on his first NHL contract and is exempt for only the entire 2007-08 season.

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09-21-2007, 11:41 PM
  #31
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From what I can tell, there are no players on 2-way contracts will be subject to recall waivers: the two I thought would be are in fact exempt because they've each played more than 320 pro games [after including playoff games].

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09-21-2007, 11:51 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Blues View Post
From what I can tell, there are no players on 2-way contracts will be subject to recall waivers: the two I thought would be are in fact exempt because they've each played more than 320 pro games [after including playoff games].
Not too surprising. The $75K (then $95K, now $100K) limit pretty much acted as a defacto salary cap - that's why the PHPA threatened to sue and the NHL/NHLPA added the minor league vet exception. Players below the minor league vet exception all pretty much sign for below the limit - otherwise they know they have no chance in hell of being called up. Veteran players have the luxury of the exception to demand a 2-way contract (or AHL contract) over the limit.

I assume you did check for the 40/80 NHL games qualifier for those two players.

The only time I expect to see a two-way player subject to recall waivers is the rare case of an over the limit minor league vet who loses his exemption by being recalled and playing too many NHL games and then being sent back down - of course in that case he would also be subject to normal waivers when sent down.

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06-09-2009, 08:41 PM
  #33
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Waiver Clarification

When a player signs at age 20, they have to either play 160 NHL games or 3 years in the minors before they have to clear waivers.

The CBA says a 19 year old has to play either 160 NHL games or have 4 years pass before waivers apply. The CBA also says an 18 year old has to play either 160 NHL games or have 5 years pass before waivers apply.

I assume the CBA is set up this way so that a team can sign an 18 or 19 year old, send them back to the CHL, and not lose a year of waiver eligibility so long as the player doesn't play in more than 10 NHL games as an 18 or 19 year old.

Also, I don't necessarily understand how "age" is calculated for use in that table. Is it the age at which the player is drafted? The age at which they sign? The first makes more sense to me given how they define age, but I don't really understand the definition either way.

example.

Rob Schremp signed on Oct. 7 2005. He was sent to the CHL on Oct 3, and signed just after being sent back down. He started in the AHL in 06/7. He has now completed his entry level contract, and has NOT played in the required 160 games. My understanding is that he has to clear waivers this fall, but am not 100 % certain.

Can someone let me know whether Schremp has to clear waivers this upcoming fall, and also exactly how the rules apply to him?

Thanks a bunch, greatly appreciated!

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06-09-2009, 08:44 PM
  #34
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From stickied CBA FAQ thread:
Quote:
HOW THE **** DOES WAIVERS WORK?
-- These are probably the best threads to cover it here:
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=275438, posts 15 and 17
http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=6680147&postcount=8

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Old
06-09-2009, 09:07 PM
  #35
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(1) Has anyone figured out what the CBA means by age WRT waivers?

Does it refer to age when drafted? Age when signed? The first makes more sense to me given how they define age, but I don't really understand the definition either way.

(2) When a player signs at age 20, they have to either play 160 NHL games or 3 years in the minors before they have to clear waivers.

The CBA says a 19 year old has to play either 160 NHL games or have 4 years pass before waivers apply. The CBA also says an 18 year old has to play either 160 NHL games or have 5 years pass before waivers apply.

I assume the CBA is set up this way so that a team can sign an 18 or 19 year old, send them back to the CHL, and not lose a year of waiver eligibility so long as the player doesn't play in more than 10 NHL games as an 18 or 19 year old.

Do they mean 4 years from when the player signed, or 4 years of pro hockey?

example:

Rob Schremp signed on Oct. 7 2005. He was sent to the CHL on Oct 3, and signed just after being sent back down. He started in the AHL in 06/7. He has now completed his entry level contract, and has NOT played in the required 160 games. My understanding is that he has to clear waivers this fall, but am not 100 % certain.

Can someone let me know whether Schremp has to clear waivers this upcoming fall, and also exactly how the rules apply to him?

Thanks a bunch, greatly appreciated!

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Old
06-10-2009, 01:30 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speeds View Post
Do they mean 4 years from when the player signed, or 4 years of pro hockey?

example:

Rob Schremp signed on Oct. 7 2005. He was sent to the CHL on Oct 3, and signed just after being sent back down. He started in the AHL in 06/7. He has now completed his entry level contract, and has NOT played in the required 160 games. My understanding is that he has to clear waivers this fall, but am not 100 % certain.

Can someone let me know whether Schremp has to clear waivers this upcoming fall, and also exactly how the rules apply to him?

My understanding in this situation is that it's 4 years from when signed. The CBA language can be confusing on the # of waiver years for 18/19 year old players vs 20+ year old players.


Quote:
Originally Posted by speeds View Post
I assume the CBA is set up this way so that a team can sign an 18 or 19 year old, send them back to the CHL, and not lose a year of waiver eligibility so long as the player doesn't play in more than 10 NHL games as an 18 or 19 year old.
My interpretation is that the CBA's "default" is 3 years of waiver eligibility for skaters (see ages 20-23). Players signed at 18 or 19 are given an extra 1 or 2 years of eligibility, however if that player hits the 11 NHL game threshold they're immediately reduced to the 3 year waiver limits.

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Old
06-10-2009, 08:16 PM
  #37
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Schremp [dob 7/1/1986] is considered 19 for the purpose of waivers; thus, he has 4 pro years or 160 NHL games from the time he first signed an NHL contract [which happened to be on 10/7/05, if anyone cares] before he's subject to waivers.

2005-06: 1st year. Schremp didn't play in at least 10 NHL games and so his contract slid, but this has no effect on waivers as there is no provision for the timeframe for waiver exemption to slide.
2006-07: 2nd year
2007-08: 3rd year
2008-09: 4th year

Thus, Schremp will be subject to waivers starting in the 2009-10 season.

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Old
08-29-2009, 04:30 PM
  #38
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Sorry if this was already covered elsewhere but I didn't see it discussed in this thread. Or perhaps, I'm too dense.

Could the Sharks choose to waive a player like Jonathan Cheechoo (for the purpose of getting rid of his cap hit)? I'm not saying the Sharks should - just want to know what options the Sharks have (or had - since this doesn't make much sense in light of the Sharks salary dumps of Ehrhoff and Lukovich).

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08-29-2009, 05:15 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharks junkie View Post
Sorry if this was already covered elsewhere but I didn't see it discussed in this thread. Or perhaps, I'm too dense.

Could the Sharks choose to waive a player like Jonathan Cheechoo (for the purpose of getting rid of his cap hit)? I'm not saying the Sharks should - just want to know what options the Sharks have (or had - since this doesn't make much sense in light of the Sharks salary dumps of Ehrhoff and Lukovich).
Yes - unless a player has a NMC a team is free to waive a player and if he clears) send him to the AHL. They would still have to pay his salary, but his cap hit would not count during the regular season (unless the player was 35+ yo when he signed his contract).

However, if he was loaned to the AHL, he would be subject to Re-Entry waivers if recalled during the season.

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08-29-2009, 06:50 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdb209 View Post
Yes - unless a player has a NMC a team is free to waive a player and if he clears) send him to the AHL. They would still have to pay his salary, but his cap hit would not count during the regular season (unless the player was 35+ yo when he signed his contract).

However, if he was loaned to the AHL, he would be subject to Re-Entry waivers if recalled during the season.
Sorry I wasn't clear in my original question.

Can a player be waived without having to pay his contract (i.e., not sent to the AHL) and not take on any cap hit that a buyout entails?

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08-29-2009, 07:30 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharks junkie View Post
Sorry I wasn't clear in my original question.

Can a player be waived without having to pay his contract (i.e., not sent to the AHL) and not take on any cap hit that a buyout entails?
No. Waiving a player does not cancel their contract.

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Old
08-29-2009, 08:28 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharks junkie View Post
Sorry I wasn't clear in my original question.

Can a player be waived without having to pay his contract (i.e., not sent to the AHL) and not take on any cap hit that a buyout entails?
No. NHL contracts (like every major professional sports contract except the NFL) are guaranteed. All a team could do is buy out a player to reduce the actual dollars paid (but keep a partial extended cap hit) or waive/assign them and eat the full salary (but get rid of the cap hit).

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