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Could NYI or DAL be a good fit for J.Finger?

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Old
08-31-2009, 08:06 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Finger has no NTC or NMC, so he can be sent down. But based on his play, there's no reason to.

The Leafs defense does cost more, but it is better than Dallas'
It should be, given the vast difference in salary.

Toronto has shelled out over $25 million on blueliners alone this coming season, compared to Dallas' just over $9 million.

At that price, Toronto's blueline should be head and shoulders better than Dallas' for the duration of the season. I'd honestly feel for the Leafs fans if it isn't, given the new gameplan Burke has in mind.

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08-31-2009, 08:27 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Drake1588 View Post
Trot out as many stats as you like, Finger is still a Leaf through the expiration of that contract.
/thread. It was a laughable contract then and it's a laughable contract now - almost Blake-esque really.

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08-31-2009, 11:00 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by mikeo1 View Post
But no team had it as bad as Toronto.

I don't think that is true. The Isles had Joey MacDonald as our #1 for most of last year. His numbers were only slight better than Toskala's, and he won't even be in the NHL next year. When he wasn't in net, it was Yanic Danis, also unlikely to be in the NHL next year. In esscence, the Isles had two AHL goales - and not even top tier AHL goalies at that.

The Leafs did have lousy goaltending, yes. But, their defense, including Jeff Finger, also stunk.

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Old
08-31-2009, 11:05 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Salsabil View Post
You're wrong here.

His contract aside, I think he's a very serviceable number 4-5 defenseman. And Dallas's blueline isn't so great that he wont fit in.
Robidas, Niskanen, Skrastins and Daley are all better than Finger. That leaves just a few spots left. Those spots will be filled by Fistric, Grossman and Vishnevskiy so in all reality Finger would be the 8th D man over Hutchinson, Woywitka and with Finger making $3.5 million over the next 3 years makes it almost a zero chance Dallas would take him. Dallas is going to develop its youth not buy over priced D men to fill a possible 7th or 8th defensive position.

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08-31-2009, 11:10 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devils Advocate View Post
As someone who isn't a fan of either the Isles, Stars, or Maple Leafs...nor hates either of the 3, let me objectively ask 2 questions:

1) Is it possible Finger's $3.5M contract might be fair market value for the last 2 years of his contract? And when I say is it possible, there are 2 possibilities: A) His play improves; B) The cap goes up?

2) How does Finger compare to Derek Morris who just received a $3.3M contract.

While I don't think anyone in their right mind wouldn't take issue with their GM handing Finger a 3 year $3.5M contract today, I also think it's a bit ridiculous for people to say Finger will play out the entirety of his contract as a Leaf, given they don't know what the salary cap will look like 2 to 3 years down the road, or more importantly how Finger will play in 2 to 3 years.

The fact the original poster at least put some thought into this thread by targeting teams with cap space (even if they do have short-term spending issues) puts this thread in the top half, probably top 25% of threads in this forum.

Much more thought in fact than the responses which essentially guarantee Finger will play out the contract as a Leaf. Ironically, if he does, he'll probably be a pretty valuable player at the end of the contract.
I don't see how playing out his contract would make him a "pretty valuable player at the end." He doesn't seem to be getting a whole lot better, and the cap is likely to go down (or at least not rise) in the next year or two. He'll still be an overpaid #5 dman two years from now.

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08-31-2009, 11:10 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
The Leafs blueline is better than the Stars.
And who plays offense? Brad May and Colton Orr should be a offensive dynamo!

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08-31-2009, 11:13 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Reverse Flying V View Post
Leafs compared to the rest of the teams in STRICTLY defensive stats.

- 17th in Shots Allowed
- 13th in Total Hits
- 5th in Blocked Shots
- 14th in Takeovers

Now throw a goalie into it.

- 30th in Penalty Kill
- 30th in Goals Against (ES)
- 28th in Goals Against (4-4)
- 29th in Goals Against (PK)
- 30th in Goals Against (5-3 PK)
- 30th in Goals Against (Overall)
- 29th in Goals Against (Shootout)
- 28th in Save Percentage (Shootout)
- 44th out of 47 in Save Percentage (Toskala)

Its a good thing the NHL.com stats thing doesn't allow Cujo and Pogge onto their lists due to not enough games played, or I could go on and on.

The Leafs issue last year was having one of the worst goaltending lineups of the decade, period.
if your talking about the leafs then yes. but in the entire nhl? no. enter danis and macdonald.

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08-31-2009, 11:17 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Alistar View Post
how bout a bet. I guarantee that the Stars defense allows less shots and goals against next season then the Leafs defense.
Not with Crawford behind the bench.

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Old
08-31-2009, 11:19 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
Not with Crawford behind the bench.
Because Dallas signed Crawford not only to coach but lace'em up and hit the ice...

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08-31-2009, 11:21 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Running Riot View Post
I don't know why NYI or DAL were chosen, but I doubt either would want Finger.

Trading Finger means taking an equal salary dump in return in the form of a forward.

Therefore, I think the only teams that might considering taking Finger are WSH (Nylander), CBJ (Modin), FLA (Olesz), LAK (Handzus) or NJD (Zubrus), and even those teams are a stretch.
He was LA's most sought after player at last years deadline and LA has no interest in trading him. I agree he's overpaid but he does a fine job shutting down the bigger centers out West.

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08-31-2009, 11:22 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Knee Seeking Scud View Post
Because Dallas signed Crawford not only to coach but lace'em up and hit the ice...
Crawford's teams are always run and gun so I doubt DAL will be good defensively.

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08-31-2009, 11:28 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Knee Seeking Scud View Post
And who plays offense? Brad May and Colton Orr should be a offensive dynamo!
May doesn't play for the Leafs anymore, and Colton Orr is our least offensive forward. Nice job trolling, though. You are getting quite good at it.

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Old
08-31-2009, 11:35 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
/thread. It was a laughable contract then and it's a laughable contract now - almost Blake-esque really.
Blake getting 4 million is market value. He recorded 63 points last season.

I love how Leaf players always get more crap for their salaries than anyone on any other team.

Remember when Bryan Mccabe was the most overpaid player in the history of hockey. That is until he was traded to Florida.

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08-31-2009, 11:36 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by kevin27NYI View Post
if your talking about the leafs then yes. but in the entire nhl? no. enter danis and macdonald.
Macdonald and Danis were fine. Better than any Leaf goalie easily.

Islanders:
Player GP W L OT SO GA EG SA PCT GAA
Yann Danis 31 10 17 3 2 84 0 933 0.910 2.86
Joey MacDonald 49 14 26 6 1 157 0 1584 0.901 3.37
Rick Dipietro 5 1 3 0 0 15 0 139 0.892 3.52
Peter Mannino 3 1 1 0 0 10 0 87 0.885

Leafs:
Player GP W L OT SO GA EG SA PCT GAA
Martin Gerber 26 10 14 1 1 78 0 799 0.902 3.03
Vesa Toskala 53 22 17 11 1 166 0 1518 0.891 3.26
Curtis Joseph 21 5 9 1 0 50 0 383 0.869 3.57
Olaf Kolzig 8 2 4 1 0 25 0 245 0.898 3.66
Justin Pogge 7 1 4 1 0 27 0 173 0.844

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08-31-2009, 11:38 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Alistar View Post
how bout a bet. I guarantee that the Stars defense allows less shots and goals against next season then the Leafs defense.
Honestly, it could happen. I'm predicting a big turnaround for Dallas. It's not like i'm calling them crap. I just value the Leafs defense higher.

Marc Crawford was a terrible mistake though.

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09-01-2009, 12:30 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Honestly, it could happen. I'm predicting a big turnaround for Dallas. It's not like i'm calling them crap. I just value the Leafs defense higher.

Marc Crawford was a terrible mistake though.
What are you basing that on?

Dallas was in dire need of a coaching change, after Tippett's repeated clashes with management regarding the playing time his rookies were getting, and several other key factors that drove me and many others up the wall last season. He's a fine coach, with a proven track record, but it was time for him to go, time for Dallas to bring a new game plan. Enter Crawford, who has a rejuvenated Stars team to work with, and from the looks of it, a lot of critics to silence.

I trust Nieuwendyk's decision, and am looking forward to Crawford's impact on the Stars in 09/10 as they return to their position amongst the Western elite.

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09-01-2009, 01:00 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Modo View Post
What are you basing that on?

His mediocre coaching ability since Colorado won the cup in 96'.

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09-01-2009, 01:02 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by It Kills Me View Post
Witt, Gervais, Sutton, Martinek, Meyer, and Hillen.. Come on now, that's the kind of D that gets you Tavares.
I see your joke but your wrong because that D did not get them Tavares. That D not playing even 1 game together in the entire season is what got them Tavares.

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09-01-2009, 01:05 AM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Running Riot View Post
I don't know why NYI or DAL were chosen, but I doubt either would want Finger.

Trading Finger means taking an equal salary dump in return in the form of a forward.

Therefore, I think the only teams that might considering taking Finger are WSH (Nylander), CBJ (Modin), FLA (Olesz), LAK (Handzus) or NJD (Zubrus), and even those teams are a stretch.
as a toronto fan, i would do any of those five deals (florida was a joke right?)

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09-01-2009, 01:29 AM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Macdonald and Danis were fine. Better than any Leaf goalie easily.

Islanders:
Player GP W L OT SO GA EG SA PCT GAA
Yann Danis 31 10 17 3 2 84 0 933 0.910 2.86
Joey MacDonald 49 14 26 6 1 157 0 1584 0.901 3.37
Rick Dipietro 5 1 3 0 0 15 0 139 0.892 3.52
Peter Mannino 3 1 1 0 0 10 0 87 0.885

Leafs:
Player GP W L OT SO GA EG SA PCT GAA
Martin Gerber 26 10 14 1 1 78 0 799 0.902 3.03
Vesa Toskala 53 22 17 11 1 166 0 1518 0.891 3.26
Curtis Joseph 21 5 9 1 0 50 0 383 0.869 3.57
Olaf Kolzig 8 2 4 1 0 25 0 245 0.898 3.66
Justin Pogge 7 1 4 1 0 27 0 173 0.844
haha definitley not fine. and i would have taken those goalies over them anyday. except pogge.

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Old
09-01-2009, 01:39 AM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Macdonald and Danis were fine. Better than any Leaf goalie easily.

Islanders:
Player GP W L OT SO GA EG SA PCT GAA
Yann Danis 31 10 17 3 2 84 0 933 0.910 2.86
Joey MacDonald 49 14 26 6 1 157 0 1584 0.901 3.37
Rick Dipietro 5 1 3 0 0 15 0 139 0.892 3.52
Peter Mannino 3 1 1 0 0 10 0 87 0.885

Leafs:
Player GP W L OT SO GA EG SA PCT GAA
Martin Gerber 26 10 14 1 1 78 0 799 0.902 3.03
Vesa Toskala 53 22 17 11 1 166 0 1518 0.891 3.26
Curtis Joseph 21 5 9 1 0 50 0 383 0.869 3.57
Olaf Kolzig 8 2 4 1 0 25 0 245 0.898 3.66
Justin Pogge 7 1 4 1 0 27 0 173 0.844

McDonald and Danis were so "fine" that neither is in the NHL next season. Both signed contracts as #3 goalies in other organizations. The "fine" McDonald will be behind Toskala and "Monster" next season and neither player got a one-way offer from any team (as far as I can find).

They had decent SV% because the Isles changed their style to compensate for the poor goaltending. Gordon emphasized an aggressive attacking style that forced high percentage shots from the outside, and hence good SV%. The end result was the Isles letting up a high number of shots, and failing to win many games. But, the goaltenders were shielded because most of the shots were not in scoring position.

Personally, I'm fairly tired of all the excuses from you guys. Three years in a row now, Toronto has had one of the worst defensive records in the year. Yet, every year we hear how Kaberle, McCabe, and Kubina are all stars, Finger is a true #4, White broke through and now is a top four, etc. The lousy play of these guys gets written off to coaching, goaltending, etc. Call me a revolutionary, but I think a team with the worst GAA in the league probably has a weak defense.

Face facts. Toronto's defense was horrible last year and Finger was part of the problem.


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Old
09-01-2009, 02:29 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Knee Seeking Scud View Post
And who plays offense? Brad May and Colton Orr should be a offensive dynamo!
Nice. Since you dont like his opinion, you say this instead of countering it with your own.

Don't worry about our offence, we were 10th overall last season with no legit top liners. Leafs might not have a top line, but we have a deep forward group (2-4th liners). I expect our scoring to be in the top 1/2 again this year.

I dont see Dallas being interested in Finger at all. IMO Robidas, Niskanen, Daley and Skrastins are all better than Finger. That leaves him as the number 5 option. No team would want Finger, at his salary, to be their number 5 guy. So, Dallas does not seem like a possible destination.

I think Dallas is in need of a need of a true #1, rather than small upgrades at numbers 4-6.

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09-01-2009, 03:37 AM
  #98
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What do you think?
The Isles already have about 8 Fingers, so to speak.

Adding another highly ordinary dman, let alone one who is on a mulit-year deal, makes no sense.

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09-01-2009, 03:51 AM
  #99
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Dallas has too many defensemen as it is.

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09-01-2009, 08:28 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
I don't think that is true. The Isles had Joey MacDonald as our #1 for most of last year. His numbers were only slight better than Toskala's, and he won't even be in the NHL next year. When he wasn't in net, it was Yanic Danis, also unlikely to be in the NHL next year. In esscence, the Isles had two AHL goales - and not even top tier AHL goalies at that.

The Leafs did have lousy goaltending, yes. But, their defense, including Jeff Finger, also stunk.
I'd actually say that MacDonald would have been the best goaltender on the Leafs last season... maybe next to Gerber...maybe.

You clearly didn't watch many leaf games last year though...

when Toskala was in net, we were almost garunteed 1 bad goal a game... at least.

When CuJo was in net, we were almost garunteed one bad goal a game... at least

When Pogge was in net, we were almost garunteed two bad goals a game... at least.

We give up at LEAST 50 bad goals last year.... 50 goals that the Average goaltender could have stopped.

If it wasn't for Gerber, we would have got a top five pick....


Our defense was actually pretty good. Not elite... but probably average. Finger played very well last season... he played physical and was good at blocking shots.... The problem now is, we upgraded Finger with Beauchemin. Both are similar type players.... we don't need both, thus Finger is on the trade block IMO.

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