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NHLPA fires Paul Kelly (UPD: player review of firing completed)

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Old
09-01-2009, 06:37 AM
  #151
Bluefan75
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Just heard Dreger's Sportscentre report. Apparently the issues include:

-pushing hard to get id of Ian Penney(by Kelly). Questions about consitutional process being followed when h was given the contract extension, but his supporters "fought back" on that one.

-Kelly not being familiar with previous labor wars.

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09-01-2009, 07:58 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by GSC2k2 View Post
And speaking of revisionism ...

This is the equivalent of Monty Python's black knight. Simply astounding.
That was in response to his man crush on Saskin and his "Saskin saved the league" speech. If Saskin saved anyone it was the owners, but it certainly wasn't the league or the players.

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09-01-2009, 08:56 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Bluefan75 View Post
Just heard Dreger's Sportscentre report. Apparently the issues include:

-pushing hard to get id of Ian Penney(by Kelly). Questions about consitutional process being followed when h was given the contract extension, but his supporters "fought back" on that one.

-Kelly not being familiar with previous labor wars.
I wouldn't toss out the investigation into the use of NHLPA funds by Lindros (and others, if there are others).

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09-01-2009, 09:33 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by GHOSTofMAROONSroad View Post
On the surface this seems like a very dumb move. There must be something more to this story that hasn't been reported yet.

GHOST
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Originally Posted by Snap Wilson View Post
So even assuming that this was a malicious coup staged by Hargrove, Lindros, et. al., should we also assume that the thirty player reps, who were all elected by their respective teams, were so naive as to be swayed by such a thing to the point where they would suddenly and surprisingly (and overwhelmingly) vote Kelly out? Whether it was the right thing to do or not, there had to be some teeth to the reason for his ouster beyond what's being speculated by the columnists.
If this was done properly it would not have been rushed thorugh in the middle of the night. It would have been taken to the membership and there would have been open debate with all the facts and differing points of view presented.

This was rushed through because convincing a small group who are in possession of only some of the facts as it turns out, was the way to force thorugh this"palace coup".

Damien Cox has a good article in todays Star:

http://www.thestar.com/sports/article/689174

Don't bother looking for a smoking gun. There isn't one.

Paul Kelly wasn't stealing from the union, nor was he spying on players' private emails or anything of that sort. You might hear the NHL Players Association trotting out some technical breach of his contract as a way to try and wiggle out of paying Kelly the $1.5 million (U.S.) guaranteed salary he's owed next year, but that will just be the usually mean-spirited nonsense you get in many a corporate squabble.

But Kelly, a decent, honest and well-intentioned man, did nothing wrong.
.....

Those who successfully plotted against him breached constitutional procedures, fudged internal reviews and used a variety of dirty tricks worthy of Watergate to finally triumph at 3:30 a.m. yesterday.

What self-respecting organization fires a key executive at 3:30 in the morning?

If there's a single smart player on the executive committee, they've already figured out they've made an awful mistake by being convinced to axe a good man, thereby putting their futures in the hands of Machiavellian suits they wouldn't trust as teammates.

Meanwhile, from almost the day Kelly was hired the union's chief counsel Ian Penny, its ombudsman - Eric Lindros and now Hargrove - and the NHLPAs advisory board were lined up against him because, basically, he wasnt enough like Bob Goodenow for their tastes.

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09-01-2009, 10:20 AM
  #155
LadyStanley
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Don't know if the Sharks were represented at the meeting. Brad Lukowich was the rep and Friday he was traded.

And AIUI, Mitchell volunteered to attend for the Canucks as their previous rep was not re-signed.

Would be nice to see a list of who (players) actually attended the meeting.

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09-01-2009, 11:52 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
I wouldn't toss out the investigation into the use of NHLPA funds by Lindros (and others, if there are others).
I don't doubt those were factors, but Dreger didn't mention the in the piece I saw. I also know that sportscentre splits their show and some topics are covered in both half hours, with this being one of those topics, so its possible he mentioned that in the other block. I just mentioned what Dreger brought up.

Other than a bias, I have to wonder why Dreger would not mention the investigation. Again, he may have in the other half of the piece, and I didn't see it. But if he didn't....is he looking for more substantiation?

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09-01-2009, 12:06 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Bluefan75 View Post
I don't doubt those were factors, but Dreger didn't mention the in the piece I saw. I also know that sportscentre splits their show and some topics are covered in both half hours, with this being one of those topics, so its possible he mentioned that in the other block. I just mentioned what Dreger brought up.

Other than a bias, I have to wonder why Dreger would not mention the investigation. Again, he may have in the other half of the piece, and I didn't see it. But if he didn't....is he looking for more substantiation?
Dreger is just repeating what he has been told by members of the executive committee. Paul Kelly is likely going to have to sue to the NHLPA to get his monies, and with a smaller camp, is less likely to leak things.

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09-01-2009, 12:16 PM
  #158
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http://www.fromtherink.com/2009/9/1/...icking-through

Mirtle picking through the rubble.

(Darn, but this is a deja vu title; AP's headline on some of the residents returning to rubble of their former homes in the aftermath of the Southern California Station Fire - now more than 105k acres burned.)

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09-01-2009, 12:18 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
Don't know if the Sharks were represented at the meeting. Brad Lukowich was the rep and Friday he was traded.

And AIUI, Mitchell volunteered to attend for the Canucks as their previous rep was not re-signed.

Would be nice to see a list of who (players) actually attended the meeting.
The stench from this is only getting stronger. I'd like to know how many reps that did attend were (1) elected by their teammates to represent them, and (2) actually have standing in the NHLPA. (I assume that means an active NHL contract.) Seems like a lot of guys were just called in at the last minute, or volunteered because someone had to go. Probably got there and were "instructed" on what the rules were governing the process. This is going to get scrutinized further, imo, once word is out to all the players.

That's why Lindros's involvement (and his father's) is especially suspect. They have ZERO legal standing in the NHLPA.

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09-01-2009, 12:34 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Egil View Post
Dreger is just repeating what he has been told by members of the executive committee. Paul Kelly is likely going to have to sue to the NHLPA to get his monies, and with a smaller camp, is less likely to leak things.
So why is he simply repeating what he has been told, and not doing some digging of his own? While I will freely admit there is a possibility those reporting the issues re: internal audits, etc., could be making it all up, those seem to be pretty big things to just make up out of thin air.

If a person were to only listen to Dreger's report, or read the links posted here, they would have a completely different view on what is going on than a person who read the opposite.

You are right about Kelly needing to sue. If the brokers behind this mess are smart, they will pay him quickly to keep this out of court. If some of this ever did get into a courtroom, I think a lot of the reps Fugu referenced may need to watch out on the ice. While I will stipulate that if the general membership is apathetic to this whole thing, then they have gotten what they deserve, if I'm a player I am very disappointed in the reps' behavior.

Or else this "new evidence" they were presented over the weekend that was "too much to ignore" is some of the most incriminating material the PA has been involved with since Eagleson.

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09-01-2009, 12:51 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Bluefan75 View Post
So why is he simply repeating what he has been told, and not doing some digging of his own? While I will freely admit there is a possibility those reporting the issues re: internal audits, etc., could be making it all up, those seem to be pretty big things to just make up out of thin air.
That is what Dregger does, he rarely adds any extra analysis, and simply repeats what he gets told (which is alot). McKenzie is the value added guy (one of the few in the entire media, for hockey or anything else), and he so far has said nothing.

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09-01-2009, 12:56 PM
  #162
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Dreger added a lot more on Leafs Lunch over the last hour. All i gotta say is wow..

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09-01-2009, 12:56 PM
  #163
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I'm sorry I have to ask. I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, I have no insider information, I just watched the UAW fiasco within the walls of Saturn in TN. But is the NHLPA THIS STUPID??? Right now let's look at the landscape of sports coming up.

in 2011 the NBA is making a lot of smoke there is going to be a lock out/strike.
(per ESPN)
in 2011 the NFL is making a lot of smoke there is going to be a lock out/Strike.
(Per ESPN and NFL network)


In this vital year for the NHL, there is a guarenteed chance of drastically increased revenues in a possibly bad economy. When the NHL season starts, the NFL could be on strike which means people who would be buying NFL tickets will be buying NHL tickets. When the NHL season starts there could be no competition with the NBA for tickets and TV viewers. The only games in town will be college sports and the MLB playoffs. The NHLPA has picked the worst possible time to have this turn into a war. If the NHL and the NHLPA has stability during this time, both the Broadcast and cable rights for the US national games will be up and ESPN/ABC will be looking at their TV schedule and seeing no NFL and no NBA, their two big contracts. They have been pushing soccer but let's face it, will that cut it for America? No.

This has come at the worst possible time and I'm now in the "Worried about the sake of the NHL" catagory.

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09-01-2009, 12:59 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by WhiteWash View Post
Dreger added a lot more on Leafs Lunch over the last hour. All i gotta say is wow..
cliffs?

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Old
09-01-2009, 01:00 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by WhiteWash View Post
Dreger added a lot more on Leafs Lunch over the last hour. All i gotta say is wow..

I know you said "all I gotta say", but care to elaborate?

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09-01-2009, 01:19 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by WhiteWash View Post
Dreger added a lot more on Leafs Lunch over the last hour. All i gotta say is wow..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Egil View Post
cliffs?
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Originally Posted by Kevin Forbes View Post
I know you said "all I gotta say", but care to elaborate?
Seriously. Not all of us have access to Leafs Lunch. More please.

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09-01-2009, 01:23 PM
  #167
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Obviously it is not in the NHLPA constitution that all members vote in the dismal of the executive director but that is something that needs to be changed.
It would be nice to know who the 30 reps are and if they were the ones voted by the individual team players.
Hargrove is a dinosaur and the Lindros family seems to have a degree in meddling.
Itís hard to believe that 30 reps were swayed by the BS spewed by those whose intention seems to be one of creating havoc. Time will tell.
On a lighter note, it seems this issue has most of us who are arguing/disagreeing on the Phoenix/sun belt team issue on the same page.

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09-01-2009, 01:26 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by Fox X Mulder View Post
Obviously it is not in the NHLPA constitution that all members vote in the dismal of the executive director but that is something that needs to be changed.
It would be nice to know who the 30 reps are and if they were the ones voted by the individual team players.
Hargrove is a dinosaur and the Lindros family seems to have a degree in meddling.
Itís hard to believe that 30 reps were swayed by the BS spewed by those whose intention seems to be one of creating havoc. Time will tell.
On a lighter note, it seems this issue has most of us who are arguing/disagreeing on the Phoenix/sun belt team issue on the same page.
It does seem nonsensical that a move as big as removing the head of the NHLPA is left solely in the hands of 30 reps, who then would think they need to decide without further consideration or consultation. Even if this is allowed by the letter of their law, it seems that ethically they would have a responsibility to report back to their constituents before making a final decision.

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09-01-2009, 01:28 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Seriously. Not all of us have access to Leafs Lunch. More please.
here's the link for am640

http://www.640toronto.com/

The Waters show is on at 4 to 7PM and Leafs Lunch is at Noon to 1PM every weekday.
Bill will probably have a lot more at 4.

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09-01-2009, 01:30 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by Fox X Mulder View Post
here's the link for am640

http://www.640toronto.com/

The Waters show is on at 4 to 7PM and Leafs Lunch is at Noon to 1PM every day.
Bill will probably have a lot more at 4.
Thanks. One less window I have to open. Great things happen when I get them mixed up! (like people disappearing permanently...)

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09-01-2009, 01:34 PM
  #171
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It does seem nonsensical that a move as big as removing the head of the NHLPA is left solely in the hands of 30 reps, who then would think they need to decide without further consideration or consultation. Even if this is allowed by the letter of their law, it seems that ethically they would have a responsibility to report back to their constituents before making a final decision.
I've heard there is some discord within the players. I wonder if there are any provisions to challenge the vote and hold a league wide vote.

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09-01-2009, 01:35 PM
  #172
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Well, with Chelios seemingly backing the move, I might think that the hardliners are back:

http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/ccustance.tsn/200594

Quote:
I asked him what the response has been from his fellow NHLPA members as he explains the thought process behind Kelly's firing.

"A lot of guys obviously don't know what happened, couldn't see it coming," said Chelios, an NHLPA executive board member. "Half the board couldn't see this coming until we got to the meetings. At the end of the day, once everybody is filled in on what happened, they're going to understand and we're going to move on."
Cheli may not even be an NHL player this year.


http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=289555

Quote:
Kelly, who appeared to defend the players interests while maintaining good relations with the commissioner, looked to be the victim of a discontented group within the association intent on having a hardline leader leading into negotiations on a new CBA in 2011.

"Now a lot of players and even people within the office want someone who is like Bob a bit -- more of a iron fist and being confrontational with the league," said Damphousse. "I feel it's much better to work with the league."

The association gave no specific reason for firing Kelly. They said the move came after a review of his leadership and that it showed that a system of checks and balances brought in before Kelly was hired was working.

Damphousse said that in Kely's case, the checks and balances were more like fetters.

"You can't have watchdogs here and there looking over your shoulder -- it's not a good environment," said Damphousse. "I understand the guys are on their guard, but you can't be overbearing with the guy."

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09-01-2009, 01:40 PM
  #173
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Well, with Chelios seemingly backing the move, I might think that the hardliners are back:

http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/ccustance.tsn/200594

Cheli may not even be an NHL player this year.
My theory is that Chelios has brought in Buzz Hargrove to bring in an auto-worker style system that guarantees him an NHL roster spot due to seniority.

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09-01-2009, 01:49 PM
  #174
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I think this move by the discontents of the NHLPA may very well have a negative impact on those teams receiving revenue sharing.
It seems the players want a more hard line approach and that would include more money. An increased cap both at the top and bottom (more than what IMO is reasonable) could be catastrophic to teams barely surviving now.
The end result, possibly, contraction, would not be the desired result and one the players will come to regret.
Makes me think of the saying "cut off your nose to spite your face"

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09-01-2009, 02:12 PM
  #175
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My theory is that Chelios has brought in Buzz Hargrove to bring in an auto-worker style system that guarantees him an NHL roster spot due to seniority.
That's a pretty good theory. He's been in Michigan too long, eh?


I'd forgotten Cheli was on the Exec Committee, or did he take Schneider's place after he moved to Anaheim (from the Wings position)? It would have clicked sooner had I realized Chelios was part of the Exec Committee.

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