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Ryan Whitney???

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Old
08-31-2009, 11:11 PM
  #26
snarktacular
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Y'know, I was reading this thread from the start and was just thinking "eric has mellowed and started to make reasonable claims now. I'm going to miss that."

Then the rest of the thread just rescued it for me. Phew.


Whitney last year played like a legit #2. But it was for only a fraction of the season. He played like garbage in Pittsburgh the past couple of seasons. We shall see if he can keep it up.

Kaberle is a good comparison. If Whitney were paired with a top-pairing caliber defensive guy, he might even be a successful 1A/1B type. If he worked on his smarts, he has the speed and length (that's what she said) to be disruptive enough in the D-zone to even be a #1.

I'm not counting on it though.

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Old
08-31-2009, 11:37 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeepItDeep View Post
This whole debate started when I took exception to a responder to my post that claimed Kunitz was a "second-liner", which is clearly not true in the context of his place on either the Ducks or the Penguins. I am arguing that Chris Kunitz is a first liner in that context. Throw out the "first line material" bs.

You jumped into that discussion, claiming that Kunitz is not a first liner. And you are dead wrong in the context.

The Ducks traded their predominate first line left winger along with their top forward prospect, and that is exactly what Ray Shero was expecting to receive in the deal. He was trading for a player to play with Sidney Crosby. Any claim to the contrary is bogus.
Then your definition of a 1st line player is different from most peoples'. R2 is probably going to have a streak of games on the top line, but if he's traded and the other team attempts to use him on their top line, I think you wouldn't be saying the same things. You're being more literal with the term then everyone else. In the cap era, players that aren't first "first line talent" will play on top lines because teams can't afford to sign very many top forwards due to cap restrictions.

Like thejoeman said, Kunitz is a top 6 forward. Now personally, and it seems like most agree, I think Kunitz is a 2nd line player in terms of talent. Does he play on 1st lines? Yes he does, but there are a lot of players in the NHL that play on the first line that I wouldn't call "1st line players".

Edit: Forgot to mention this as well. No one ever argued that they were trying to get someone to play with Crosby. In fact they even said that they were looking for someone to complement Crosby that had speed. If Malkin's line goes out 1st then would you have called Kunitz a 2nd line player? Based on your perception; Drew Miller was a 1st line LW, and so was Patrick Kjelberg at one point in time. Oh and I guess Pronger wasn't a top 2 defensemen on our team, since he played on the 2nd pairing. Your logic is way to literal.

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09-01-2009, 12:19 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by KeepItDeep View Post
Guess again, little man.
This is my favourite by far. It's just so.. complete somehow. I'll start using that if someone ever disagrees with me.

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09-01-2009, 01:08 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Talentless Practise View Post
This is my favourite by far. It's just so.. complete somehow. I'll start using that if someone ever disagrees with me.
It's pretty sweet.

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Old
09-01-2009, 10:43 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talentless Practise View Post
This is my favourite by far. It's just so.. complete somehow. I'll start using that if someone ever disagrees with me.
Here's another one you can try, it always works for me:

Or like a train once told me: "Mehp Mehp!" Can't argue the train, so ****. (shut the **** up)

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09-01-2009, 10:52 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snarktacular View Post
Y'know, I was reading this thread from the start and was just thinking "eric has mellowed and started to make reasonable claims now. I'm going to miss that."

Then the rest of the thread just rescued it for me. Phew.


Whitney last year played like a legit #2. But it was for only a fraction of the season. He played like garbage in Pittsburgh the past couple of seasons. We shall see if he can keep it up.

Kaberle is a good comparison. If Whitney were paired with a top-pairing caliber defensive guy, he might even be a successful 1A/1B type. If he worked on his smarts, he has the speed and length (that's what she said) to be disruptive enough in the D-zone to even be a #1.

I'm not counting on it though.
How can you say Whitney played like a legit #2? I've been a season ticket holder since day 1--I've seen the good, the bad, and the ugly. I sit by a great group of hockey fans and we all agreed that Whitney's play was lacking. I agree he has the talent to be a #1 defenseman, but he's not there yet.

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Old
09-01-2009, 11:52 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericnut View Post
How can you say Whitney played like a legit #2? I've been a season ticket holder since day 1--I've seen the good, the bad, and the ugly. I sit by a great group of hockey fans and we all agreed that Whitney's play was lacking. I agree he has the talent to be a #1 defenseman, but he's not there yet.
......I thought you lived in Boston.

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Old
09-01-2009, 12:20 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericnut View Post
How can you say Whitney played like a legit #2? I've been a season ticket holder since day 1--I've seen the good, the bad, and the ugly. I sit by a great group of hockey fans and we all agreed that Whitney's play was lacking. I agree he has the talent to be a #1 defenseman, but he's not there yet.
Because a typical #2 defenseman is someone like Beauchemin or Weaser. Our #2 was Pronger. Whitney definitely falls into that category. He just wasn't getting the opportunities of a #2 defenseman because we did have Beauchemin, Weaser, and Pronger, as well as Niedermayer.

Anaheim had two #1 defensemen, and three #2 defensemen. Sure, Weaser out-played both Beauchemin and Whitney, but he was also playing with Niedermayer and getting extra responsibility that goes with it. Whitney got time with Pronger, but the two of them play pretty similar styles with the puck. Pronger is just better at it. It's hard to judge Whitney's game because when he is with Pronger you see Pronger's game, even when some of it was Whitney's game as well.

Whitney is going to be the anchor on the #2 d-line, and personally, I'm completely comfortable with that. That's the sign of a legit #2 defenseman, in my opinion. He's not Chris Pronger, but he can anchor that line. Carlyle will keep him honest in his own zone, and likely demand more from him offensively. Pronger will no longer be the guy breaking the puck out on that line. It will be Whitney, probably with support from Weaser.

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Old
09-01-2009, 12:40 PM
  #34
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Some facts about Whitney from last postseason:

-3rd in icetime behind the big 2
-3rd in points behind the big 2
-2nd fewest giveaways behind Brookbank
-Most takeaways
-2nd fewest on the ice for a goal against behind Brookbank, though with less PPGA than the other 4 top guys
-Least penalty minutes

Ofcourse there are some negatives too, like least hits and not a lot of blocked shots (still more than Wiz) but every player has faults. He was our 3rd best dman in the playoffs. Now with Pronger gone he'll be our #2 and he'll be just fine.

Fun fact: we had 14 different dmen suit up last season.

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Old
09-01-2009, 01:28 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talentless Practise View Post
Fun fact: we had 14 different dmen suit up last season.
Without looking online:
Mikkelson
Festerling
Pronger
Niedermayer
Brookbank
Salcido
Whitney
Wisnewski
Klee
Beauchemin
Huskins
Hedican

I can only get 12. Damn.

EDIT: Looked it up. Montador and McIver.

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Old
09-01-2009, 05:22 PM
  #36
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Yeah, and Montador was here most of the year, but I forget about him too.

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