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Cage to half visor. Bad idea?

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Old
08-25-2009, 11:15 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by cptjeff View Post
Well, a teammate of mine just got a concussion recently when he hit his chin on the ice with no mouthguard, And I've hit the ice in similar ways with a mouthguard with no effect whatsoever, so take from it what you will.

Absence of proof is not proof of absence. It often just means they haven't come up with a way to do the study well yet. In this case, doing a formal study would involve giving people concussions, which is something rather illegal to do while doing a study.
Doesnt quite work like that.

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08-25-2009, 11:33 AM
  #52
Danrik
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Well, I bought a Bauer DX100. Going to try it out, if I don't like it or feel unsafe I will go back to the cage, first game is next wednesday. We'll see how it goes.

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08-26-2009, 05:04 PM
  #53
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I have a question.
Are people REALLY that worried ditching the cage and going to visor?
Personally, I don't think about losing teeth, getting sticks n face. If I worried about all that would I really be able to focus on the game at all?
When you're driving on the road do you constantly think about running a red light, getting into a crash?
No probably not, **** happens.

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08-26-2009, 05:30 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by deangamblin View Post
I have a question.
Are people REALLY that worried ditching the cage and going to visor?
Personally, I don't think about losing teeth, getting sticks n face. If I worried about all that would I really be able to focus on the game at all?
When you're driving on the road do you constantly think about running a red light, getting into a crash?
No probably not, **** happens.

I do actually, i am constantly thinking about not driving into other cars

I agree with everything else though. except change "cage and visor" to "anything and nothing".

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08-26-2009, 06:43 PM
  #55
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If you want the protection of a cage but also want vision. Then I recommend the I2 cage from Itech(maybe Bauer now) but its the one where its black on the outside and white on the inside. When I played minor hockey this is the cage I used and I loved it. However it was still a cage and did obstruct my vision. Ever since I had the choice I have not worn a visor. I just love playing hockey without one. I realize that there are risks but thats hockey. I have injured myself twice in hockey. Once was a broken wrist which a cage wouldnt have prevented and the other was a cut on my chin that tok about 5 stitches. This was the only facial laceration I have had in hockey and it came in minor hockey when I was wearing a cage. To me its just personal preference. And I prefer to not wear one. Also someone was saying something about the cage guys that say people who dont wear anything are dumb. The one thing that pisses me off about cagers are when they start beaking at me. They start calling me a ***** and stuff while they have a metal cage in front of them. Those guys really piss me off.

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09-01-2009, 12:45 AM
  #56
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I changed from a cage to a visor and then back to the cage.

I switched back after getting a deflected shot in my chin for seven stitches.

I find that the white or light grey cages are easier to adapt to than the black ones.

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09-01-2009, 01:22 AM
  #57
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One thing i ask, if you have always worn a cage or are going back to wearing a cage, please keep your sticks down. I know the majority dont do it on purpose. But i notice, overall, cage wearers tend to keep their sticks up a lot more often then non cage wearers. If you do keep your stick down, cool, if you dont, please keep this in mind. And if you dont know if you do or do not, ask a non cage wearer to keep an eye on you and let him give you his opinion.

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09-01-2009, 02:27 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by CanadaBacon View Post
"No study that mouth guards prevent concussions has been done," said Dr. Cantu. "But they do prevent injuries to the teeth so I would recommend all collision-sports players wear mouth guards."

There is no proven evidence that mouthguards dont prevent concussions.

I wore a visor till i finished Juniors (obviously) then took it off and have not used a visor/cage for 10ish years now. I always had two helmets growing up, one that had a cage (then a visor once i played junior) and one with nothing. The first helmet i wore for games/practice only. The second i used shinny, pond whatever. Since i was really young i never liked cage/visors. I just felt more comfortable without.

Now i have had 3 teeth knocked out, numerous facial lacerations and black eyes, broken nose. I have never really cared. I have always thought it was part of the game. Growing up i remember players like Marsh who didnt even wear a helmet. I would have done that if i could have. I see absolutly no problem with people not wearing a cage/visor if you feel comfortable enough. I personally love the game more then i hate pain.

I just hate when cage/visor wearers start calling us idiots and just are complete ***** because we chose to not wear them. (Not saying anyone in this thread is doing that). If you want to wear a cage/visor and feel more comfortable playing, thats cool go for it. But dont say stuff like "there is no reason to not wear a visor/cage". I have to work like everybody else, whatever, dont see the big deal. You lose a tooth, you shouldnt be taking time off. You need stitches, why would you be taking time off. You should be more worried about breaking a leg/arm/neck/back. Unless your in sales then maybe a cage is not that bad of an idea

I have played with guys who wear no visor/cage and have never even gotten a scratch in 20+ years. I have played with guys who wear no visor/cage and have no front teeth and are all scarred up. I have played with guys who wear a visor and never gotten a scratch. I have played with guys who wear a visor and have no front teeth and are all scarred up. I have played with guys that wear a cage and never learned to control there stick because they are "protected" so everyone else should be (biggest piss off imo about some cage wearers). I have played guys that wear a cage that have been cut on their neck by skates/sticks. Its a violent game, plain and simple.

On that note, i have never worn a mouthguard either. Its not going to protect your teeth when a puck or stick is rammed up in there. And it has neither been proven or disproven to protect you from concussions, so i have always seen them as pointly.

There is no need to judge someone by what they are wearing not wearing. You dont need to call someone an idiot because they chose to not wear a visor/cage and you dont need to call someone a because they are wearing one. (unless they actually are idiots or )

Rant over
It's a pointless risk you take of injuries that don't need to happen. I wear a half shield, and jesus that thing has saved me multiple times from swinging sticks, and when sticks come up in collisions. Before, one could make a claim it impared their vision, glare or they get fogged up. The visors of today are top notch. There isn't a reason not to wear one now. You're just being a BEER LEAGUE HERO. OLD TIME HOCKEY!!

Why WOULDN'T you protect your eyes? You wear a jock to protect your berries, gloves to protect your hands, etc, etc... Eyes don't grow back man, and serious eye injuries are no joke.

My dad was just like you. Only took him a puck right below his eye to throw on a shield for good.

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09-01-2009, 03:09 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by droller View Post
It's a pointless risk you take of injuries that don't need to happen. I wear a half shield, and jesus that thing has saved me multiple times from swinging sticks, and when sticks come up in collisions. Before, one could make a claim it impared their vision, glare or they get fogged up. The visors of today are top notch. There isn't a reason not to wear one now. You're just being a BEER LEAGUE HERO. OLD TIME HOCKEY!!

Why WOULDN'T you protect your eyes? You wear a jock to protect your berries, gloves to protect your hands, etc, etc... Eyes don't grow back man, and serious eye injuries are no joke.

My dad was just like you. Only took him a puck right below his eye to throw on a shield for good.
I explained all that in the post you quoted.

You play the game which everyway you feel comfortable with, i will do the same. But do not act as if you have the right to judge someone else because of what he/she may be wearing.

Do you wear a neck guard? Why dont you wear a cage? you are taking a "pointless" risk wearing a device that still might not protect you.

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09-01-2009, 03:56 AM
  #60
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so let me get this straight. pu?@y wear visors.(or cages)
and dumba$%es don't wear any facial protection.
There are many "what ifs" in life lots of bad things happen. play how you feel comfortable, but keep your fuken sticks down. (I don't mind if a puck hits me in my unprotected face), but a stick because someone cant keep their stick down pisses me off. By that logic its my fault if you hit me in my car but I'm not wearing my seatbelt so its my fault. how about dont hit me. why is a high sticking penalty 2 min, unless you draw blood? if it was the guys fault without the cage the penality would not change. I agree that you have to play with what protection you feel comfortable with. I dont feel comfortable with a cage, or visor. keep your sticks down, then us cavemen only have to watch out for pucks.

One little side note, my parents always told me how dangerous motorcycles were growing up. they were right, sort of, but you would not imagine how much of a better driver you become because you have to really pay attention to what is going on around you... I'm just saying.

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09-01-2009, 11:41 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckleboy View Post
so let me get this straight. pu?@y wear visors.(or cages)
and dumba$%es don't wear any facial protection.
There are many "what ifs" in life lots of bad things happen. play how you feel comfortable, but keep your fuken sticks down. (I don't mind if a puck hits me in my unprotected face), but a stick because someone cant keep their stick down pisses me off. By that logic its my fault if you hit me in my car but I'm not wearing my seatbelt so its my fault. how about dont hit me. why is a high sticking penalty 2 min, unless you draw blood? if it was the guys fault without the cage the penality would not change. I agree that you have to play with what protection you feel comfortable with. I dont feel comfortable with a cage, or visor. keep your sticks down, then us cavemen only have to watch out for pucks.

One little side note, my parents always told me how dangerous motorcycles were growing up. they were right, sort of, but you would not imagine how much of a better driver you become because you have to really pay attention to what is going on around you... I'm just saying.
You do realize that alot of players who have always worn a cage have never learnt to keep their sticks down? You do realize that is can be dangerous to both visor wearers and people who decide to wear nothing?

And your first sentance is just idiotic.

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09-01-2009, 12:01 PM
  #62
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you wear what your comfortable wearing, i think you find though that players who wear visors are more considerate to other players with visors, if your scared of a bit of pain then fine wear a cage, but if not then get yourself a good mouthguard and you'll be fine. at the end of the day your playing hockey not soccer and its a dangerous sport.

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09-01-2009, 01:06 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadaBacon View Post
You do realize that alot of players who have always worn a cage have never learnt to keep their sticks down? You do realize that is can be dangerous to both visor wearers and people who decide to wear nothing?

And your first sentance is just idiotic.
That is certainly true, guys who have worn full face protection their whole lives do not keep their sticks down. I started wearing an HS22 straightcut visor after playing in a men's league this year where there were a couple of close calls as well as almost getting a puck in the eyeball. it hit my eyebrow thankfully.

I never wore a face protector my whole life and lots of older guys like me still do not. I prefer not to wear any porotection but cannot justify that if I got a puck in the eye and suffered a detached retina or something.

I've lost my front teeth playing hockey already anyway so I do not wear a mouthguard since that isn't a guarantee anyway as I lost bottom teeth before while wearing one as well as top teeth while also wearing one.

Hey ... it's hockey and you WILL get injured no matter what you wear and all you can do is minimize that damage.

I wear a visor ... no gurantee I won't get an eye injury anyway from some schmuck who doesn't keep his or her stick down. The sticks today weigh almost nothing which doesn't help in the matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluumax View Post
you wear what your comfortable wearing, i think you find though that players who wear visors are more considerate to other players with visors, if your scared of a bit of pain then fine wear a cage, but if not then get yourself a good mouthguard and you'll be fine. at the end of the day your playing hockey not soccer and its a dangerous sport.
I wear what I am comfy with for sure, the visors they make now have no optical issues to complain about as an excuse not to wear one. As stated above I went without a visor for decades because bluntly ... they all sucked and messed with your vision.

Now they do NOT.

You are correct in that players wqith visors respect the other players more and the most respect shown is playing with older guys who do not wear any protection. Unfortunately more often than not that respect isn't mutual among guys with full face protection.

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09-01-2009, 01:13 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Hockeyfan68 View Post
That is certainly true, guys who have worn full face protection their whole lives do not keep their sticks down. I started wearing an HS22 straightcut visor after playing in a men's league this year where there were a couple of close calls as well as almost getting a puck in the eyeball. it hit my eyebrow thankfully.

I never wore a face protector my whole life and lots of older guys like me still do not. I prefer not to wear any porotection but cannot justify that if I got a puck in the eye and suffered a detached retina or something.

I've lost my front teeth playing hockey already anyway so I do not wear a mouthguard since that isn't a guarantee anyway as I lost bottom teeth before while wearing one as well as top teeth while also wearing one.

Hey ... it's hockey and you WILL get injured no matter what you wear and all you can do is minimize that damage.

I wear a visor ... no gurantee I won't get an eye injury anyway from some schmuck who doesn't keep his or her stick down. The sticks today weigh almost nothing which doesn't help in the matter.



I wear what I am comfy with for sure, the visors they make now have no optical issues to complain about as an excuse not to wear one. As stated above I went without a visor for decades because bluntly ... they all sucked and messed with your vision.

Now they do NOT.
Great post. Perfect example how guys from both sides of the "face protection" divide are neither or idiots.

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09-01-2009, 01:16 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by CanadaBacon View Post
Doesnt quite work like that.
You have to have a baseline in order to establish if something will give you a concussion or not, which the anti mouthguard crowd seems to need. There have been plenty of studies done showing that a mouthguard dramatically reduces the amount of energy transmitted through the skull, but those studies are for some reason deemed insufficient to determine that it lessens the risk of concussions. The only way to determine the effectiveness for sure at that point would be to actually test impacts with and without mouthguards.

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09-01-2009, 01:21 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by cptjeff View Post
You have to have a baseline in order to establish if something will give you a concussion or not, which the anti mouthguard crowd seems to need. There have been plenty of studies done showing that a mouthguard dramatically reduces the amount of energy transmitted through the skull, but those studies are for some reason deemed insufficient to determine that it lessens the risk of concussions. The only way to determine the effectiveness for sure at that point would be to actually test impacts with and without mouthguards.
I was referring to the "giving people concussions" part.

I agree with the rest of your post(s), i dont use one because of the reason(s) you state, but i admit that there is no proof that it doesnt help.

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09-01-2009, 02:08 PM
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I think its pretty damn obvious a mouthguard would GREATLY reduce any type of hit where your lower jaw would slam into the upper teeth. Obviously it wont save your teeth if you take a puck to the mouth, pretty sure they are not intended to do that what so ever. but it for sure reduces the damage from impact of falling on the ice or getting an accidental(maybe on purpose) blow to the bottom of your chin. I dont care if I sound a little dumb tryin to talk with it, Id rather not risk slamming my teeth together. That is probably one major things I dont understand why people would not want to wear regardless if how much facial protection you have, it serves its purpose. Not tryint to insult in any way, just how I think about it.

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09-01-2009, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by CanadaBacon View Post
Great post. Perfect example how guys from both sides of the "face protection" divide are neither or idiots.
that was the point I was trying to make in my post. I apologize if it did not come off that way. I don't care what guys wear or dont wear. After nearly 30 years of playing I do notice that guys that have always worn a cage seem less likely to keep their sticks down. That is proabably a byproduct of never getting hit in the mouth with a stick. I think if you reread what my first 2 sentences say, it was more or less the feeling you get when you read the 3 pages of this thread, maybe my sarcasim did not come through. I dont think your manhood comes into question if you wear face protection. I also dont think playing without face protection is a reflection of your IQ. I do stand by the fact that playing without one, will make you know where everyone is at on the ice as well as where the puck is.

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09-01-2009, 04:52 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by buckleboy View Post
that was the point I was trying to make in my post. I apologize if it did not come off that way. I don't care what guys wear or dont wear. After nearly 30 years of playing I do notice that guys that have always worn a cage seem less likely to keep their sticks down. That is proabably a byproduct of never getting hit in the mouth with a stick. I think if you reread what my first 2 sentences say, it was more or less the feeling you get when you read the 3 pages of this thread, maybe my sarcasim did not come through. I dont think your manhood comes into question if you wear face protection. I also dont think playing without face protection is a reflection of your IQ. I do stand by the fact that playing without one, will make you know where everyone is at on the ice as well as where the puck is.
I misinterpreted your post i apologise.

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09-01-2009, 05:08 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by CanadaBacon View Post
I was referring to the "giving people concussions" part.
I know. And in order to establish a baseline for how much force it takes to get a concussion in that type of impact, somebody has to get a concussion when using no mouthguard. Whether you do it in a lab, or put a accelerometer in their helmet until they get a concussion in that type of situation, you don't have information on how much energy it takes, and if you don't have that information it doesn't constitute "proof" for some people.

There are plenty of experimental setups that can test energy absorption with the mouthguard, but if that's not enough, the only way to get hard data would be to run a trial where people take various impact levels with and without a mouthguard and determining if they get a concussion or not.

The kind of stuff they have done is put an accelerometer inside a skull analog and hit the jaw a bunch of times, with and without a mouthguard. That can show a reduction in force transferred to where the brain would be, but it cannot show if those impacts would result in a concussion without a baseline on how much energy it takes to cause a concussion.

Actually, all this is why we owe more medical knowledge then we care to admit to Nazi research. They didn't bother themselves with moral standards, and as a result got a lot of data that we could never get if we cared about moral standards.

And this bit of research is nowhere near important enough to violate every ethical standard of research ever thought up.

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09-01-2009, 09:39 PM
  #71
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First game tomorrow night with my x100 and new mouthguard. I think the mouthguard will take a while to get used to since i've never worn one before and it's a bit akward.

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09-01-2009, 11:38 PM
  #72
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First game tomorrow night with my x100 and new mouthguard. I think the mouthguard will take a while to get used to since i've never worn one before and it's a bit akward.
Make sure you boil it to mold it to your teeth, will def help it be much snugger.

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09-02-2009, 07:16 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by CanadaBacon View Post
I was referring to the "giving people concussions" part.

I agree with the rest of your post(s), i dont use one because of the reason(s) you state, but i admit that there is no proof that it doesnt help.
Hey, guess what? There have never been studies conducted to prove that helmets prevent concussions either, just studies that show they cut down on the incidence of concussions. Your reasoning is lame and so is your statement about guys that wear cages carrying their sticks up. If you don't want to wear a cage, don't. If you don't want to wear a mouthguard, don't. Me, I'll risk it and wear a cage. I've seen too many guys that wear visors loose 3 or four teeth, and a UHL player lose an eye when he got hit by a puck that deflected off the goalpost. I don't need to prove how tough I am by taking needless chances. Just like these dumda@@ donorcycle riders you see doing wheelies down the road. The wheelies don't hurt them, it's the sudden stop at the end. Good luck with your crusade against the cagers that carry their sticks up.

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09-02-2009, 07:41 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Gino 14 View Post
Hey, guess what? There have never been studies conducted to prove that helmets prevent concussions either, just studies that show they cut down on the incidence of concussions. Your reasoning is lame and so is your statement about guys that wear cages carrying their sticks up. If you don't want to wear a cage, don't. If you don't want to wear a mouthguard, don't. Me, I'll risk it and wear a cage. I've seen too many guys that wear visors loose 3 or four teeth, and a UHL player lose an eye when he got hit by a puck that deflected off the goalpost. I don't need to prove how tough I am by taking needless chances. Just like these dumda@@ donorcycle riders you see doing wheelies down the road. The wheelies don't hurt them, it's the sudden stop at the end. Good luck with your crusade against the cagers that carry their sticks up.
So why you trying to do it on a forum?

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09-02-2009, 09:35 PM
  #75
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i don't wear a cage or a visor. and i still have all my own teeth.

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