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Calgary - Anaheim

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Old
09-02-2009, 12:11 AM
  #76
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Dino had a bad year becuase of the NHL09/EA Sports Curse...He will have a beast year now, and Kane, well, it already cursed him the most out of everybody

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Old
09-02-2009, 11:30 AM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
Ryan had 31 goals, in only 64 games... that's a 40 goal pace... in his rookie season.

And anyone that watched him play last year knows it was no fluke... he is an outstanding player and showed it already in his rookie year... he was also the team's top +/- forward, played aggressively - through a full season, he'd be right behind Perry in hits! solid on the PP (2nd on the team behind Selanne in PPG), and did it with just 15.5min/night of icetime - which is surely to go up significantly next season.... looks like a top end powerforward in the making to me, who's already scoring at a 40 goal pace through just his rookie year!

Phaneuf didn't just have a bad season "by his standards" ... he was bad last year in general... just go back and read calpuck for example, and the comments they had about Phaneuf through the year... his defense was non-existent... he was bad. Still, he's young and improving those parts of his game can come through experience... but anyone who saw him play last year knows that he didn't have a good season by anyone's standards... defensively he was just plain bad!

I think value-wise this is a pretty good trade... but neither team would do it... both players have tons of potential and both will get better... neither team is going to move one of their own drafted players that has star potential in them. Too risky a move that can hurt either team if they made it.
To be fair to Phaneuf, he had three significant injuries throughout the year that had not been well known. It was of course a big opportunity for Phaneuf's detractors to jump all over it and proclaim him to be overrated. (I am not suggesting you are doing so).

The year before, he had been a finalist for the Norris so he obviously brings a lot. Ryan is a great young player and I would never complain if the Flames were able to land a guy like that but I have to think about just how good Phaneuf has been and what he represents as a young player as well. Phaneuf was a finalist for the Norris at a very young age and in a position that usually demands a fair amount of time to adjust to. You just don't let that kind of potential go unless you are certain it will never be realized.

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Old
09-02-2009, 01:32 PM
  #78
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Due to contract and age, I would see the ducks sending Perry, not ryan, for Phaneuf. I think Phaneuf will bounce back and right now is a good time to buy low.

As it stands right now, I can see why Calgary may make the move (want to distribute more salary to offense), but the ducks are going to wait and see how their young defensive core does before breaking up the RPG line.

If Niedermayer leaves/retires next year, this makes a lot more sense.

Personally a start D-man is more valuable than a star forward, so I could see the ducks having to add something to get this done.

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Old
09-02-2009, 01:38 PM
  #79
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If Calgary is going to shed a defenseman, it's sure as hell not going to be Phaneuf. The guy is going to be the franchise after Iginla retires. I'd personally run Sutter out of town myself if Phaneuf was traded.

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09-02-2009, 01:50 PM
  #80
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There are quite a few horrid remarks in this thread. But instead of delving into them, I'll just say that the Ducks can't take the salary.

EOS

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Old
09-02-2009, 01:51 PM
  #81
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I think Phaneuf and Getzlaf would kill each other before the season started. Those two seems to really hate each other.

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Old
09-02-2009, 01:57 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by DucksRule00 View Post
I think Phaneuf and Getzlaf would kill each other before the season started. Those two seems to really hate each other.
That's true, however they both played for the World Juniors together so it could work

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Old
09-02-2009, 03:56 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Iggy-4-50 View Post
Someone must have hacked into your acct, is it possible to have over 11,000 posts with comments like this?

WOW
So how often did Dion get matched against the opposition's top lines?

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Old
09-02-2009, 07:05 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericnut View Post
Playing with Parros? Ha!
So why is everyone talking about what a great line Ryan - Getzlaf - Perry is?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Zepp View Post
Thought if you were trading a player, you were trading the player of today versus a version from previous years.

Anyway, this would be a solid move for Calgary as they can shed some $$ from the back end and get a strong first line and a more balanced attack. Also would give them someone to take the load when JI passes the torch as no one else in the hopper has that pedigre in the prospect pool currently.
I'll bite.

Are you suggesting that NHL players re-set every year? Usually, a players previous 3-5 seasons can give you a very good idea of what kind of player they are now. Both have only been in the NHL 4 seasons, lets compare major accomplishments:

Phaneuf 205 pts
Perry 195 pts
Phaneuf Calder nomination w/ cid & ovie, Norris nomination w/ Lids, Chara
Perry 35 playoff points, stanley cup

Having watched the entire Detroit/Wings series, I can confidently say that Getzlaf makes the magic happen. Perry is very good, but I got a 'johnny on the spot' vibe from him, a la cheechoo + thornton. Phaneuf, as a defenceman, doesn't get many free points. I can see Perry being a 80 pt guy (given a center), and Phaneuf being a 60 pt guy.

As for the Dough, Perry is only cheap for one more year, then could get $4-5.5M depending on term and this season. Phaneuf costs more, but he brings more and is locked up for some of his prime years. He has a potential to be a franchise player that I do not see in Perry.

I agree calgary could loose some weight on the back end and get fatter up front, but I won't mind seeing how this shake's up. I'm not too concerned about the future of the flames. Sutter is excellent at identifying and addressing the teams needs, and we'll have to run him out of town with pitch forks to ever get him to leave.

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09-02-2009, 07:10 PM
  #85
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I can't believe Flame fans are saying no to this. Are you mental? Ryan is exactly what you need.

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Old
09-02-2009, 07:37 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by ericnut View Post
Playing with Parros? Ha!
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoolChamp View Post
I can't believe Flame fans are saying no to this. Are you mental? Ryan is exactly what you need.
Not just a no, but a 'no' and a 'get the hell out before I get my shotgun.'

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Old
09-02-2009, 07:40 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matata View Post
So why is everyone talking about what a great line Ryan - Getzlaf - Perry is?



I'll bite.

Are you suggesting that NHL players re-set every year? Usually, a players previous 3-5 seasons can give you a very good idea of what kind of player they are now. Both have only been in the NHL 4 seasons, lets compare major accomplishments:

Phaneuf 205 pts
Perry 195 pts
Phaneuf Calder nomination w/ cid & ovie, Norris nomination w/ Lids, Chara
Perry 35 playoff points, stanley cup

Having watched the entire Detroit/Wings series, I can confidently say that Getzlaf makes the magic happen. Perry is very good, but I got a 'johnny on the spot' vibe from him, a la cheechoo + thornton. Phaneuf, as a defenceman, doesn't get many free points. I can see Perry being a 80 pt guy (given a center), and Phaneuf being a 60 pt guy.

As for the Dough, Perry is only cheap for one more year, then could get $4-5.5M depending on term and this season. Phaneuf costs more, but he brings more and is locked up for some of his prime years. He has a potential to be a franchise player that I do not see in Perry.

I agree calgary could loose some weight on the back end and get fatter up front, but I won't mind seeing how this shake's up. I'm not too concerned about the future of the flames. Sutter is excellent at identifying and addressing the teams needs, and we'll have to run him out of town with pitch forks to ever get him to leave.
Great rant Sparky...the thread was about Bobby Ryan, not Corey Perry.

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Old
09-02-2009, 07:59 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Rob Zepp View Post
Great rant Sparky...the thread was about Bobby Ryan, not Corey Perry.
You win this time gadget, but I'm too dumb to quit.

I still got the dough part right. My arguments about Getzlaf being the go-to guy still holds water, he was doing everything himself in the detroit series. Phaneuf has proven more, and there is no way Ryan would have been a calder nominee in Phaneufs year. Franchise forwards usually have better first and second year totals than 10 and 57 points, and they usually have those seasons before 22 (thornton! hurf durf).

Trading a guy with proven franchise defenceman potential signed long term, for a young offensive stud who could still go either way, is madness.

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Old
09-02-2009, 08:04 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Rob Zepp View Post
Great rant Sparky...the thread was about Bobby Ryan, not Corey Perry.
You win this time gadget, but I'm too dumb to quit.

I still got the dough part right. My arguments about Getzlaf being the go-to guy still holds water, he was doing everything himself in the detroit series. Phaneuf has proven more, and there is no way Ryan would have been a calder nominee in Phaneufs year. Franchise forwards usually have better first and second year totals than 10 and 57 points, and they usually have those seasons before 22 (thornton! hurf durf).

Trading a guy with proven franchise defenceman potential signed long term for a young offensive stud who could still go either way, is madness.

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Old
09-02-2009, 08:18 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Matata View Post
Not just a no, but a 'no' and a 'get the hell out before I get my shotgun.'


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Old
09-02-2009, 08:29 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Matata View Post
You win this time gadget, but I'm too dumb to quit.

I still got the dough part right. My arguments about Getzlaf being the go-to guy still holds water, he was doing everything himself in the detroit series. Phaneuf has proven more, and there is no way Ryan would have been a calder nominee in Phaneufs year. Franchise forwards usually have better first and second year totals than 10 and 57 points, and they usually have those seasons before 22 (thornton! hurf durf).

Trading a guy with proven franchise defenceman potential signed long term for a young offensive stud who could still go either way, is madness.
Ryan has a combined 87 NHL games played not including playoffs. How is that 2 seasons? He also had more than double the goals Getzlaf had in his rookie season.

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Old
09-02-2009, 08:45 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by PoolChamp View Post
Ryan has a combined 87 NHL games played not including playoffs. How is that 2 seasons? He also had more than double the goals Getzlaf had in his rookie season.
Young franchise forwards tend to have higher totals because they tend to make the team, something Phaneuf accomplished straight out of camp. A 21 y/o calder nominee is also not as impressive as a 19 or 20 y/o nominee.

Getzlaf is similar to thornton in being 6'4 monsters, which Ryan is not. He's far from little and may have a touch of the 'big-man' syndrome. He could still flourish into 80 point guy, maybe even a franchise player, or he might stall out as a 30g/60 pt player. There's not enough upside to tempt the flames on this one.

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Old
09-02-2009, 08:56 PM
  #93
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This is a silly argument.. I don't know that I would trade (if I was GM of either team) Ryan for Dion or vice-versa...

As a Ducks fan, I will tell you this. I watch a lot of hockey... and I have watched a lot for the last 15-20 years or so religiously.

This trade costs both teams way too much that it would make sense.

Dion - For Calgary... is a potential franchise player... maybe a hall-of-famer for the the fans to congregate around.... Why would you deal him?

Ryan - For Anaheim... He was a "bad pick". For hockey fans, he is the guy who was picked #2 overall and therefor has to live in the shadow of another player.

Us- (Anaheim) fans- thought that our team 'reached', in choosing Ryan... there have been many great players from that draft year who reached the NHL sooner than Ryan...

But he's our guy. He's big, he's strong, he's super-talented in terms of passing and scoring... Anaheim fans like him a lot, and we like the fact that he spent most of his last season in Anaheim and wasting his time on the 4th line with guys like Parros and Carter... and he still put up goals and he made his line-mates better. The dude has talent and we have gotten attached to that.... Ryan is a stud, and he makes everyone around him better.

Is he better for the Anaheim club than Dion? I don't know. I know I would rather lose with our kid Ryan than I would trade him out for a declining value Dion.

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Old
09-02-2009, 09:00 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matata View Post
Young franchise forwards tend to have higher totals because they tend to make the team, something Phaneuf accomplished straight out of camp. A 21 y/o calder nominee is also not as impressive as a 19 or 20 y/o nominee.

Getzlaf is similar to thornton in being 6'4 monsters, which Ryan is not. He's far from little and may have a touch of the 'big-man' syndrome. He could still flourish into 80 point guy, maybe even a franchise player, or he might stall out as a 30g/60 pt player. There's not enough upside to tempt the flames on this one.
Alright, I'll get into this argument at this point! Ryan was not playing with Perry-Getz till 75 percent of the season completion. RC had him playing with Parros for awhile to spread out the scoring and to get him used to the system. He also played with Morrison-Selanne as well for the majority of the season.

Ryan is a pretty big guy himself, 6'2 isn't small by NHL standards. I don't think he is done growing myself as he is still a kid. The size factor means little in this argument, correct? I don't see the point in it at all hehe. Ryan showed how he could play with Getzlaf in the playoffs, and Getzlaf wasn't the show the majority of the time, he was 33 percent of the line before Ryan was injured. Once that happened Perry couldn't step up anymore, and Getzlaf showed what he could do.

About the trade both teams say no just because the fact that they mean different things to the Franchise. A franchise winger that could complete the already dominate Getz/Perry line despite who is playing with them (IE: Kunitz). Also, a franchise defensemen that was already in the running for the Norris. The past two seasons are just a kick in the ass for Dion. He needs to gear up and show why he is a franchise Dman. Calgary knows what he is capable of being.

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Old
09-02-2009, 09:02 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theridion View Post
This is a silly argument.. I don't know that I would trade (if I was GM of either team) Ryan for Dion or vice-versa...

As a Ducks fan, I will tell you this. I watch a lot of hockey... and I have watched a lot for the last 15-20 years or so religiously.

This trade costs both teams way too much that it would make sense.

Dion - For Calgary... is a potential franchise player... maybe a hall-of-famer for the the fans to congregate around.... Why would you deal him?

Ryan - For Anaheim... He was a "bad pick". For hockey fans, he is the guy who was picked #2 overall and therefor has to live in the shadow of another player.

Us- (Anaheim) fans- thought that our team 'reached', in choosing Ryan... there have been many great players from that draft year who reached the NHL sooner than Ryan...

But he's our guy. He's big, he's strong, he's super-talented in terms of passing and scoring... Anaheim fans like him a lot, and we like the fact that he spent most of his last season in Anaheim and wasting his time on the 4th line with guys like Parros and Carter... and he still put up goals and he made his line-mates better. The dude has talent and we have gotten attached to that.... Ryan is a stud, and he makes everyone around him better.

Is he better for the Anaheim club than Dion? I don't know. I know I would rather lose with our kid Ryan than I would trade him out for a declining value Dion.
Did anyone else cry? :'(

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