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Old
09-01-2009, 05:10 PM
  #26
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Frolik easily has the most untapped talent on the Panthers' roster, and when or if he reaches his full potential, he will be an elite 2nd line player. He blew me away when I saw the kid play.

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09-01-2009, 05:15 PM
  #27
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It's not bad if you keep in mind that it's gonna be a top 5-10 pick. You can take the good but not special player in Frolik, or take a gamble on a prospect like Granlund or Gormley that could become superstars.

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09-01-2009, 05:20 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jano View Post
It's not bad if you keep in mind that it's gonna be a top 5-10 pick. You can take the good but not special player in Frolik, or take a gamble on a prospect like Granlund or Gormley that could become superstars.
Now this is just rediculus. I would much rather have Frolik than anything less than a top-3 pick

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09-01-2009, 05:28 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
No...it's not.


Horrible deal, Frolik's going nowhere, deal with it.
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Must've missed Frolik last season, it's not enough. Frolik's PROVEN he can play in the NHL, a top 10 prospect (which is what a top 10 pick is) hasn't proven anything. How many top 10s don't make it? Or at least don't live up to expectations?
I agree Frolik isn't going anywhere! He is right now the 2nd most popular player(fanwise) behind Booth. And that's after only one season.

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Originally Posted by mcphllp View Post
Frolik is a top 10 pick and turning out to be a good one.
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Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
Sure is doing better than I expected after a mediocre World Jr. The value is there but FLA needs him more than a top 10 pick.
He's turning out to be a good one because about 18months before the 2006 draft he was projected to be the #1 overall pick. But he dropped due to horrible play the last 10 months or so before the draft. I bet the Panthers Organization couldn't believe they drafted Frolik with the 10th pick. I'm not saying he should have gone #1 overall that year but I bet right now a few of those GM's probably wished they hadn't passed on Frolik.

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09-01-2009, 05:42 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jano View Post
It's not bad if you keep in mind that it's gonna be a top 5-10 pick. You can take the good but not special player in Frolik, or take a gamble on a prospect like Granlund or Gormley that could become superstars.
One year in the NHL, he spent no time in the AHL, just stop. He's got superstar potential, he's at least proved he belongs in the NHL and had a great season, especially for a rookie.

Again, picks and prospects don't always work out as planned, you're talking about taking a chance...Frolik's proven himself. That's what matters, to further that, the Panthers have zero reason to move him.

These types of posts are ludicrous. Really shows how much people here value something that's a crapshoot more than they value the real deal.

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09-01-2009, 05:43 PM
  #31
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Your are right. Granlund or Gormley could become superstars or they could turn out be another Frolik or worse in 3-4 years.
Well yeah, that's kind of the whole point. I was just saying that Florida has the potential to be huge winners in this trade, or huge losers. It's not as lopsided as it may seem at first sight.

You can take Frolik, and a 90% chance of getting an excellent second line center that will put up 60-70 points in his prime, or you can take the pick and have a 20% chance at getting the next great, mulitple time Norris winning defenceman. It's a gamble, but the value is there.

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09-01-2009, 05:57 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jano View Post
Well yeah, that's kind of the whole point. I was just saying that Florida has the potential to be huge winners in this trade, or huge losers. It's not as lopsided as it may seem at first sight.

You can take Frolik, and a 90% chance of getting an excellent second line center that will put up 60-70 points in his prime, or you can take the pick and have a 20% chance at getting the next great, mulitple time Norris winning defenceman. It's a gamble, but the value is there.
Firstly, Frolik has a higher upside than a 60-70 pt player. He hasn't played center at the NHL level either. His upside is an 80pt player. HFboards also has this theory that a 60-70pt player is a 2ndline player. Thats wrong. A 60-70pt player = an average 1st line player on an average team.

Frolik was #10 in a very very good draft. At #10, he is an excellent pick. His upside is excellent. Indeed, if the #10 player from the 10 draft ends up as good as Frolik, i'd be suprised.

You seem to think that Gormley, Granlund etc are much better prospects than Frolik? Well, Gormely may be an excellent prospect, but i'd wager alot that the likelyhood of him winning a Norris is unlikely. A Granlund (who i like alot) has the upside of what Frolik will be in the next 2 years. The upside you gain in this trade (and this obviously depends on the player you take, and his upside may not even be that high in the end) is so marginal to take over Frolik its ridiuclous even suggesting this trade makes any logical sense.

Trade Frolik for a guy 3-4 years behind in development who MAY (unlikely) have a little more upside, but has far more bust chance?

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Old
09-01-2009, 06:01 PM
  #33
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The Panthers management really has no reason to trade or that they should trade Frolik. The fact is that the team has gone through quite a bit of turbulence, should have made the playoffs, and lost their best defenseman in a very short order. They would never trade Frolik, because they need to make a statement, that they are comitted to building a winning team, with the players they have, abiding by the constraints of finance.

They cannot trade Frolik until he starts demanding UFA caliber money.

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09-01-2009, 06:05 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jano View Post
Well yeah, that's kind of the whole point. I was just saying that Florida has the potential to be huge winners in this trade, or huge losers. It's not as lopsided as it may seem at first sight.

You can take Frolik, and a 90% chance of getting an excellent second line center that will put up 60-70 points in his prime, or you can take the pick and have a 20% chance at getting the next great, mulitple time Norris winning defenceman. It's a gamble, but the value is there.
People are underrating Frolik here. He will be an elite 1st line player or that's where his ceiling is. I would not be surprised to see 60 points from him this year. He was the most impressive rookie forward I have ever seen in the franchise's history. He's that good, and when you consider how the team weaned him on to the team in the 1st half 50 is expected next year. I mean he had 45 last year and he was on the 4th line at times even in the 2nd half of the season.

I am not saying he's definitely going to be a star 90+ points, but if you watch him play...The talent is there.

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Old
09-01-2009, 07:40 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
Nope but Frolik will never be as valueable as Doughty. The Sens are a probable top 10 pick so I think that's more than enough for Frolik.
45 points as a rookie with very likely further upside and you think a top ten pick is enough? I suppose maybe a top 3 pick might get a conversation started, but I doubt it.

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Old
09-02-2009, 08:32 AM
  #36
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not a bad proposal value wise but frolik is going nowhere(especially in eastern conf)

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Old
09-02-2009, 11:30 AM
  #37
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What about this proposal:

Florida gets: Patrick Wiercioch + 1st round pick + Schubert (almost evens out the salaries)

Ottawa gets: Michael Frolik

Works for Ottawa cause they already have Karlsson + Cowen and they need a rising cheap young stud forward.

Florida needs another premier stud defensive prospect behind Ellerby.

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Old
09-02-2009, 11:53 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masterandy View Post
What about this proposal:

Florida gets: Patrick Wiercioch + 1st round pick + Schubert (almost evens out the salaries)

Ottawa gets: Michael Frolik

Works for Ottawa cause they already have Karlsson + Cowen and they need a rising cheap young stud forward.

Florida needs another premier stud defensive prospect behind Ellerby.
How about a 1st, Karlsson or Cowen, and a 3rd?

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Old
09-02-2009, 12:12 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masterandy View Post
What about this proposal:

Florida gets: Patrick Wiercioch + 1st round pick + Schubert (almost evens out the salaries)

Ottawa gets: Michael Frolik

Works for Ottawa cause they already have Karlsson + Cowen and they need a rising cheap young stud forward.

Florida needs another premier stud defensive prospect behind Ellerby.
Florida has Kulikov and Garrison, it's offense needs help. Soooo...how's about NO!

Frolik's going to be a Panther for a looooong time.

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09-02-2009, 12:27 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Agi View Post


So Panthers trade Frolik to the Sens for their junk?


Wow, very knowledgeable, huh?

Our 1st pick... Junk?

Ilya Zubov, probably our most NHL ready prospect.

Picard, the centerpiece of the Meszaros trade.

Not saying its good value, but I am saying you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

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09-02-2009, 12:43 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Jcrew View Post


Wow, very knowledgeable, huh?

Our 1st pick... Junk?

Ilya Zubov, probably our most NHL ready prospect.

Picard, the centerpiece of the Meszaros trade.

Not saying its good value, but I am saying you don't have a clue what you're talking about.
Still, it's nothing Frolik will be traded for.

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Old
09-02-2009, 01:09 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcrew View Post


Wow, very knowledgeable, huh?

Our 1st pick... Junk?

Ilya Zubov, probably our most NHL ready prospect.

Picard, the centerpiece of the Meszaros trade.

Not saying its good value, but I am saying you don't have a clue what you're talking about.
Junk might not be the right word - but let's call a spade a spade - those assets aren't what FLA needs right now.

OTT's 1st round DP: Could be anywhere from 10-25 depending on Leclaire. What's a mid-late 1st round DP worth to a team that need legit scoring line players NOW.

Zubov: prospect that has proven nothing at the NHL level. Nice potential - but a TOTAL crap-shoot at this point.

Picard: Throw-in in the Meszaros trade. IMO, Kuba was the key asset coming back. And FLA is looking pretty good on the blueline IMO.


FLA needs scoring line contributors right now. The biggest asset in the proposed deal won't help the Panthers for 3-4 years, if ever. This is one of those deals where the value MIGHT be close (I don't think so) - but still is just ignorant because it totally ignores one teams needs.

The return might be reasonable for a team like the Hawks are deep at forward and might want to move out some salary in Versteeg or Buffuglien.

Also - how ofter are guys like Frolik moved after just coming into the league? Sure, we'd all love our team to trade for this kind of guy, but why would the Panthers make that deal? If Karlsson has a great rookie season, do you think the Sens would be looking to trade him next summer? Hell no!

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Old
09-02-2009, 01:16 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
Junk might not be the right word - but let's call a spade a spade - those assets aren't what FLA needs right now.

OTT's 1st round DP: Could be anywhere from 10-25 depending on Leclaire. What's a mid-late 1st round DP worth to a team that need legit scoring line players NOW.

Zubov: prospect that has proven nothing at the NHL level. Nice potential - but a TOTAL crap-shoot at this point.

Picard: Throw-in in the Meszaros trade. IMO, Kuba was the key asset coming back. And FLA is looking pretty good on the blueline IMO.


FLA needs scoring line contributors right now. The biggest asset in the proposed deal won't help the Panthers for 3-4 years, if ever. This is one of those deals where the value MIGHT be close (I don't think so) - but still is just ignorant because it totally ignores one teams needs.

The return might be reasonable for a team like the Hawks are deep at forward and might want to move out some salary in Versteeg or Buffuglien.

Also - how ofter are guys like Frolik moved after just coming into the league? Sure, we'd all love our team to trade for this kind of guy, but why would the Panthers make that deal? If Karlsson has a great rookie season, do you think the Sens would be looking to trade him next summer? Hell no!
Murray specifically asked for Picard, if anything he was the centerpiece

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09-02-2009, 06:59 PM
  #44
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I always wonder what goes through folks minds before they post crappy trade offers for other teams top assets?

"Wow that player played great as a rookie, he got better all year long, he had top flight potential when drafted and is young and cheap for years to come. I need to get him. Lets give us some throw ins, unproven guys and a pick, sure that other team doesnt need it, and it doesnt help them any chance this year and ruins their team and would be selling off a potential first line player. Sure they will do it."


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09-02-2009, 07:15 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by SouthFLFan79 View Post
I always wonder what goes through folks minds before they post crappy trade offers for other teams top assets?

"Wow that player played great as a rookie, he got better all year long, he had top flight potential when drafted and is young and cheap for years to come. I need to get him. Lets give us some throw ins, unproven guys and a pick, sure that other team doesnt need it, and it doesnt help them any chance this year and ruins their team and would be selling off a potential first line player. Sure they will do it."



Say what you will, but Picard and Zubov are nowhere near junk. Both are NHL ready who would be Dressing up for 85% of the teams in this league. The only reason they aren't for Ottawa is because of Ottawa's depth.

Last year, Picard suited up for 47 games, and notched 14 points. Not bad for A rookie defenseman. Picard is one hel| of a prospect. Flyers fans were really high no Picard, and can tel you that he has great potential.

The pick is also likely to be top 10.


now that I think about it, this trade would acually hurt the Sens a little

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Old
09-02-2009, 07:21 PM
  #46
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Say what you will, but Picard and Zubov are nowhere near junk. Both are NHL ready who would be Dressing up for 85% of the teams in this league. The only reason they aren't for Ottawa is because of Ottawa's depth.

Last year, Picard suited up for 47 games, and notched 14 points. Not bad for A rookie defenseman. Picard is one hel| of a prospect. Flyers fans were really high no Picard, and can tel you that he has great potential.

The pick is also likely to be top 10.


now that I think about it, this trade would acually hurt the Sens a little


It has -9.25% of happening, so don't lose sleep.

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Old
09-02-2009, 10:21 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Biggzy View Post
How about a 1st, Karlsson or Cowen, and a 3rd?
Cowen without injury is a top-5 pick, possibly top-3
Karlsson was a steal @ 15th
Add a 1st and a 3rd? Hmmm, didn't know that Frolik had that much value, then i'd rather keep Karlsson and Cowen. They're pretty much unmoveable to the Sens anyway (maybe like Frolik for the Panthers)

What about Heatley for Frolik + salary dump?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoSenators11 View Post
Murray specifically asked for Picard, if anything he was the centerpiece
Well i doubt Picard was the centerpiece of the deal over Filip Kuba who is a good #2-3 in the NHL, even if Murray asked for him. The 1st and Picard were the sweeteners for the deal. Wich is great because we got Campoli on top of that.

Meszaros for Kuba + Campoli + Picard

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Old
09-02-2009, 10:37 PM
  #48
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Cowen without injury is a top-5 pick, possibly top-3
Karlsson was a steal @ 15th
Add a 1st and a 3rd? Hmmm, didn't know that Frolik had that much value, then i'd rather keep Karlsson and Cowen. They're pretty much unmoveable to the Sens anyway (maybe like Frolik for the Panthers)

What about Heatley for Frolik + salary dump?
His proposal wasn't serious.


As long as Alan Cohen is owner of this team they will never take on a player with that much salary. Frolik is getting paid dirt cheap right now and while he is no Heatley for what the Panthers would have to give up to acquire him it wouldn't be worth it(for either side).
Ott would probably have to take back close to what Heatley is making, Olesz and Stillman would have to go in the deal and I doubt Ott or any team wants Olesz with the possibility of the cap going down and the fact he is making 3.25mil for the next 5 years.

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Old
09-02-2009, 10:51 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by GoSenators11 View Post


Say what you will, but Picard and Zubov are nowhere near junk. Both are NHL ready who would be Dressing up for 85% of the teams in this league. The only reason they aren't for Ottawa is because of Ottawa's depth.

Last year, Picard suited up for 47 games, and notched 14 points. Not bad for A rookie defenseman. Picard is one hel| of a prospect. Flyers fans were really high no Picard, and can tel you that he has great potential.

The pick is also likely to be top 10.


now that I think about it, this trade would acually hurt the Sens a little
Let me make sure I understand:

1) Ottawa's incredible depth is keeping these guys from being fully utilized. Never mind the fact that OTT had to rally huge at the end of last year to end up in 21st place overall in the league, and their biggest weakness was scoring depth.
2) You say that Zubov would be playing on 25 teams in the league - but he's not good enough to be playing on a team that you apparently expect to be one of the worst 10 in the league?
3) Picard did have a nice year - and is a nice prospect. However - I think that with Allen coming back, and with some promising prospects of their own (Ellerby, Kulikov, etc) the blueline is anything but a need for the Panthers.

Bottom line: teams don't trade guys like Frolik unless they are getting a blue-chip asset in return, AND dealing from strength to address a major need for the organization. This proposal isn't doing any of that. The Panthers desperately need to add another player like Frolik, not trade the one they have away. And for a team trying to improve their on-ice product - this deal is a HUGE step back. Overall, the value might not be that bad, but from an organization standpoint it makes NO sense for the Panthers.

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