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Old
09-04-2009, 12:37 PM
  #26
YogiCanucks
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This trade is going to look a heck of a lot sexier to flyer fans after 2-3 Emery melt downs.

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09-04-2009, 01:25 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by New Jersey Devils View Post
its been widely considered JVR needs a year of seasoning in the AHL.
I was fully aware both JVR and Schnieder could move up to the NHL this year, but both would be better off with another full year in the minors.

Don't get me wrong. I think JVR is a very good prospect that any team would want, but the Canucks don't have an need for him this season or next.

Likely Canucks Lineup this Season:

D Sedin – H Sedin – Sameulsson
Burrows – Kesler – Demitra
Raymond – Wellwood – Bernier
Hordichuk/Johnson – Rypien – Hanson

Likely Canucks Lineup Next Season:

D Sedin – H Sedin – Sameulsson
Raymond – Hodgson - Bernier
Burrows – Kesler – Shirokov/Grabner
Rypien - Wellwood - Hanson

The top 3 lines are very balanced and there is no sense in trying to acquire a player of JRV's calibre just to keep him in the minors. Heck, we won't have room for Schroeder either if he's ready to play in the NHL. Gillis has done a wonderful job in filling holes that needed filling when he took over as GM. This is going to be a very competitve camp this week because there is an even bigger log jam on defense.

The Canucks could use a true #1 or franchise level defenseman and a franchise level forward, but teams don't trade those players unless it's for other franchise level players. JVR and Schnieder both have the potential to be #1 players at their position, but niether would be considered game controlling, franchise level players. Those players have to be drafted and that is why I'd rather see the Canucks trade for draft picks than for players or prospects. The two best times to make those kind of trades is either right after training camp when a team realizes their prospects couldn't fill a major hole on the team or at the trade deadline.


Last edited by Hi-wayman: 09-04-2009 at 01:31 PM.
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Old
09-04-2009, 01:28 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by eklunds source View Post
Please stop including Schneider in trade proposals! He has little to no value right now, and we need a backup for the next few years, and we have ZERO goaltending depth after Schneider!
It'd only cost us a 2nd or a 3rd to get a good young goalie back tho.

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09-04-2009, 01:37 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
The guy is unproven. Not exactly what we need in a pressure filled enviroment in philly. I'm pretty sure thats half the reason half our goalies have crumbled. Phase in the fact that we have no playing system so to speak, and he will recieve his fair share of 35-40 shots a game
The way you'r saying it is like that JVR is a proven top 6 forward in the NHL.There both unproven but the Flyers wouldn't do this trade cause they don't really have a strong prospect pool and trading away there best prospect make it even more worse.But there is still a way that this could help the Flyers if Emery has a meltdown they don't really have depth at the goalie position and say Schneider plays 10 games with the canucks say he wins 7 off them then would the Flyers have any interest in a deal like this one

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Old
09-04-2009, 02:09 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by bieksa 3 View Post
The way you'r saying it is like that JVR is a proven top 6 forward in the NHL.There both unproven but the Flyers wouldn't do this trade cause they don't really have a strong prospect pool and trading away there best prospect make it even more worse.But there is still a way that this could help the Flyers if Emery has a meltdown they don't really have depth at the goalie position and say Schneider plays 10 games with the canucks say he wins 7 off them then would the Flyers have any interest in a deal like this one
10 games is a bad sample size. this is why backups don't have phenomenal trade value.

if Emery does have a breakdown and Schneider can prove himself to be more than an AHL superstar/NHL backup, then the Flyers might have interest. they just won't be dealing JVR, one of their few remaining quality assets.

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09-04-2009, 03:31 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by eklunds source View Post
Please stop including Schneider in trade proposals! He has little to no value right now, and we need a backup for the next few years, and we have ZERO goaltending depth after Schneider!
You have the best goalie in the NHL. That's all you need, forget about Schneider.

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09-04-2009, 04:42 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by YogiCanucks View Post
This trade is going to look a heck of a lot sexier to flyer fans after 2-3 Emery melt downs.

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09-04-2009, 10:39 PM
  #33
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im going to laugh when cory gets traded for a larger package than JVR. yes JVR is good but how many goalies with the upside of CS are available and have a contract as low as his. there are alot of good forwards prospects out then every team has one or 2 not every team has a stud goalie prospect and he is way move proven than JVR how many awards for being outstanding in the AHL does JVR have? none.

what about mile smith for brad richards or when luongo was traded from the island to florda you couldnt say he was proven. or clouier to the canucks for a proven top 4 dman that had scored over 20 goals. i think its vancouver that is losing value on this one. not to mention JVR has sliped in his future rates as CS has had his value increase. hockey futures ranks JVR as 13 and CS as 15 you cant get much closer than that. that all being said i think he gets traded to the islanders when they fuigure out Depitero is not going to last long. im praying for thier first round draft choice. althought im aware that it would take more im sure a hansen and raymond with CS pacakage might intice.

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Old
09-04-2009, 10:43 PM
  #34
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Seriously this gets proposed every other week and someone just ends up getting drastically over-rated somewhere along the line.

But as per my previous topic a few weeks ago:

To Vancouver: JVR + Lehtivouri

To Phili: Schneider + Raymond

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Old
09-04-2009, 10:51 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by oceanchild View Post
im going to laugh when cory gets traded for a larger package than JVR. yes JVR is good but how many goalies with the upside of CS are available and have a contract as low as his. there are alot of good forwards prospects out then every team has one or 2 not every team has a stud goalie prospect and he is way move proven than JVR how many awards for being outstanding in the AHL does JVR have? none.

what about mile smith for brad richards or when luongo was traded from the island to florda you couldnt say he was proven. or clouier to the canucks for a proven top 4 dman that had scored over 20 goals. i think its vancouver that is losing value on this one. not to mention JVR has sliped in his future rates as CS has had his value increase. hockey futures ranks JVR as 13 and CS as 15 you cant get much closer than that. that all being said i think he gets traded to the islanders when they fuigure out Depitero is not going to last long. im praying for thier first round draft choice. althought im aware that it would take more im sure a hansen and raymond with CS pacakage might intice.
See to me. Both sides seem to have this Christain Ehrhoff factor. Both teams think their player, whether it be JVR or Schneider, is worth a heck of a lot. Watch them get traded for peanuts.

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09-04-2009, 11:06 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YogiCanucks View Post
This trade is going to look a heck of a lot sexier to flyer fans after 2-3 Emery melt downs.
Yea cause throwing in a rookie goalie will make us so much better

Quote:
Originally Posted by oceanchild View Post
im going to laugh when cory gets traded for a larger package than JVR. yes JVR is good but how many goalies with the upside of CS are available and have a contract as low as his. there are alot of good forwards prospects out then every team has one or 2 not every team has a stud goalie prospect and he is way move proven than JVR how many awards for being outstanding in the AHL does JVR have? none.

what about mile smith for brad richards or when luongo was traded from the island to florda you couldnt say he was proven. or clouier to the canucks for a proven top 4 dman that had scored over 20 goals. i think its vancouver that is losing value on this one. not to mention JVR has sliped in his future rates as CS has had his value increase. hockey futures ranks JVR as 13 and CS as 15 you cant get much closer than that. that all being said i think he gets traded to the islanders when they fuigure out Depitero is not going to last long. im praying for thier first round draft choice. althought im aware that it would take more im sure a hansen and raymond with CS pacakage might intice.

Please dont use rankings as evidence... Also we will keep JVR thanks. Some of us are hoping he shows the talent he had when we drafted him and he brings it hard to camp. Plus we have like 5 goalies in the system, most of them looking promising (one broke the QMJHL record for GAA, 2.12, while the other lead his team to a title in sweden)

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Old
09-05-2009, 12:18 AM
  #37
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no thanks, we don't need over paid bums
That is funny because Phaneuf would be Vancouvers #1 Defenceman by a LONG shot..

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09-05-2009, 12:41 AM
  #38
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Yea cause throwing in a rookie goalie will make us so much better
A rookie goalie that has yet to throw a complete spaz tantrum by having to wear a sponsor cap.

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Old
09-05-2009, 12:55 AM
  #39
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That is funny because Phaneuf would be Vancouvers #1 Defenceman by a LONG shot..
2007-2008 phaneuf? Sure.

2008-2009 phaneuf? I'm not sure. He played hurt a lot of the year and he was pretty terribly defensively as a result. I'd really like to see a huge rebound year from him, but we'll have to wait and see how he heals.

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09-05-2009, 12:58 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
Seriously this gets proposed every other week and someone just ends up getting drastically over-rated somewhere along the line.

But as per my previous topic a few weeks ago:

To Vancouver: JVR + Lehtivouri

To Phili: Schneider + Raymond
I would love that from a canucks POV but don't think the Flyers want to give up JVR

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Old
09-05-2009, 01:03 AM
  #41
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unfortunately (and fortunately) Canucks will probably use Schneider to acquire a defensive prospect. Whether it be this year, or sometime after that. At least in my opinion.

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09-05-2009, 01:05 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by oceanchild View Post
im going to laugh when cory gets traded for a larger package than JVR. yes JVR is good but how many goalies with the upside of CS are available and have a contract as low as his. there are alot of good forwards prospects out then every team has one or 2 not every team has a stud goalie prospect and he is way move proven than JVR how many awards for being outstanding in the AHL does JVR have? none.
I don't see how the canucks can get JVR for Schneider let alone more

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09-05-2009, 01:13 AM
  #43
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Schnieder is a good goaltending prospect, but Vancouver will need to add more to pry JVR from the Flyers. Many people thought of Bobby Ryan like JVR now before he broke out. They're both late blooming #2 overall picks that have a ton of talent. No way are the Flyers going to give him up unless they get a couple of good prospects in return or a good player on a good contract. Overpayment? Perhaps, but the Flyers have no reason to move JVR just yet, so if you really want him you'll likely have to overpay a bit.

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09-05-2009, 01:14 AM
  #44
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That is funny because Phaneuf would be Vancouvers #1 Defenceman by a LONG shot..
maybe, but I wouldn't say by a LONG shot. He would be our highest payed defenceman by a long shot that's for sure.

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09-05-2009, 01:16 AM
  #45
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Canucks don't have ANY top 2 defensemen. We role with a top 4 and an above average bottom 2.

It's not like you're comparing it to the days when Ohlund, Jovo, and Salo were absolute studs on this team. Then no, Phaneuf would not be our best defenseman.

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09-05-2009, 02:33 AM
  #46
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Tuuka Rask returned Andrew Raycroft who at the time of the trade was coming off a season where he won rookie of the year i believe and Rask was way more unproven at that time then Schnieder is now.

LOL, are you kidding me??? Raycroft was a year removed from this ROY AND he was benched and not even dressed as the 3rd goalie at the time of the trade. Get your facts straight, he was practically run out of town at the time of the trade. If an unproven goalie prospect ala Raks is returning a 3rd string goalie at best then you have no hope in hell of getting a top rated forward prospect like JVR. I just LOVE wen people bring up the Raycroft trade as a "benchmark" for what an unproven goalie like Rask (implying that an unproven goalie prospect like Schneide magically is worth a ton) when in acutality Raycroft was nothing more than a BUM at the time of the trade.

Great, if it's a bum you want as Schneiders value in a trade then the Flyers offer up Randy Jones, he has about as much trade value as Raycroft did when the Rask trade was finished.


We have a set value then, Schneider for Jones, deal is done. That's it, finished, no take backs. YOU chose to use the Raycroft/Rask trade as a benchmark and that means that Jone for Schneider is more than fair from the Flyers POV.

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09-05-2009, 02:41 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by New Jersey Devils View Post
its been widely considered JVR needs a year of seasoning in the AHL.

This is simply not true. Paul Holmgren, the man who actually sets the Flyers roster each night, is VERY high on JVR an expects him to be in the Flyers roster sooner rather than later. JVR has a VERY good chance of making the Flyers right out of camp and even if he doesn't he will likely spend no more than half the year in the AHLjust like Giroux last year. This all on the team that is considere to have one of the best top 9 in the league.


Make no bone about it, by the end of the season JVR WILL be a regular on the Flyers top 9, one of the best top 9 in the league. THAT should say something to you about what this organization thinks about this kid. Add in to this that not even the Ducks could get JVR away from the Flyers in the Pronger trade and there is a snowballs chance in hell of an unproven goalie like Schneider getting JVR in return in a trade. It's laughable that some "fans" even think that Schneider has that kind of value.

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09-05-2009, 02:56 AM
  #48
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So, has anybody thought of JVR for Schneider? Not really sure what fans think of it, it just came to me in a dream last night.

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09-05-2009, 02:56 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by oceanchild View Post
im going to laugh when cory gets traded for a larger package than JVR. yes JVR is good but how many goalies with the upside of CS are available and have a contract as low as his. there are alot of good forwards prospects out then every team has one or 2 not every team has a stud goalie prospect and he is way move proven than JVR how many awards for being outstanding in the AHL does JVR have? none.

what about mile smith for brad richards or when luongo was traded from the island to florda you couldnt say he was proven. or clouier to the canucks for a proven top 4 dman that had scored over 20 goals. i think its vancouver that is losing value on this one. not to mention JVR has sliped in his future rates as CS has had his value increase. hockey futures ranks JVR as 13 and CS as 15 you cant get much closer than that. that all being said i think he gets traded to the islanders when they fuigure out Depitero is not going to last long. im praying for thier first round draft choice. althought im aware that it would take more im sure a hansen and raymond with CS pacakage might intice.







IF Schneider gets traded in the next 12 months (what we are discussing as his trade value NOW) then we will all be alughing aout loud at YOU for believing he'll retunr that much in a trade. Go ahead and mark this thread if you want and if I'm proven wrong I'll gladly eat my crow. However, I'll GLADLY bet wit the traditinal valie established for clearly UNPROVEN AHL goalies like Schneider and take the under here.


BTW, as a fan of both team, I'm hoping the Canucks hold on to Schneider until his value rises. I fully understand that this will likely price him out of Philly's range but that's fine. What Vanc could realistically exspect in return in a trade now is not worth trading him. I fully believe in Schneider in being able to increase his trade value as opposed to actually hurtin his trade value the way the Montoya did (and BTW, BEFORE Montoya fell flat on his face he WAS viewed just as hightly as Schneider is right now). I WANT the Canucks to hold on to Schneider for now, it's just plain stupid to trade him at this point for what is no mre than a 2nd rnd pick value wise (and yes, that IS his actual value RIGHT NOW, it has NOTHING to do with what JVR is worth right now). IMO it would be bad asset managment to trade Schneider right now (and believe me I'll blast my own team for bad asset management when it's warrented, just for look at the Flyers board and go back a get pages for a thread titled "Asset Mismanagment" for my views on Holmgrens last 24 months).

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09-05-2009, 02:58 AM
  #50
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LOL, are you kidding me??? Raycroft was a year removed from this ROY AND he was benched and not even dressed as the 3rd goalie at the time of the trade. Get your facts straight, he was practically run out of town at the time of the trade. If an unproven goalie prospect ala Raks is returning a 3rd string goalie at best then you have no hope in hell of getting a top rated forward prospect like JVR. I just LOVE wen people bring up the Raycroft trade as a "benchmark" for what an unproven goalie like Rask (implying that an unproven goalie prospect like Schneide magically is worth a ton) when in acutality Raycroft was nothing more than a BUM at the time of the trade.

Great, if it's a bum you want as Schneiders value in a trade then the Flyers offer up Randy Jones, he has about as much trade value as Raycroft did when the Rask trade was finished.


We have a set value then, Schneider for Jones, deal is done. That's it, finished, no take backs. YOU chose to use the Raycroft/Rask trade as a benchmark and that means that Jone for Schneider is more than fair from the Flyers POV.
Raycroft was the number 3 goalie for 1 game

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