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Old
09-04-2009, 02:24 PM
  #51
mstad101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex28 View Post
Canucks do this in a heartbeat. Even if the 2nd is a 1st '10. Staal at 21 is already more of a player than most NHLers can ever hope to become. When you consider the linemates he has and the situations he's been put and did admirably in, as well as the fact that he's never been scratched or injured and still has probably 4-5 years until he's in his prime, yeah, Canucks win this unless Schneider is the 2nd coming of Marty Brodeur.

If Vancouver gets Staal they could roll 3 dominating lines once Hodgson and Schroeder develop, and for the last 2 years that has been the key to the cup.

Sedin Sedin Samuelsson (18 minutes of ice time)
Kesler Hodgson Burrows (18 minutes of ice time)
Bernier Staal Schroeder (18 minutes of ice time, Staal would probably be good for 65-70 points and Selke caliber defensive play)
Raymond Rypien Hansen (6 minutes of ice time)

Ehrhoff Mitchell
Edler Salo
O'Brien #6 guy

Luongo

Don't tell me that's not a top 5 cup favorite if Luongo has a decent backup.
that defense has no 30 minute of ice time guy.
with SOB always in the Box. we wouldnt have enough bodies to fill out the roster half the time

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Old
09-04-2009, 04:25 PM
  #52
Malkin4Top6Wingerz
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Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
A third line center (not saying that's what Staal would be on another team) is far easier to replace for the Pens than a tough 2nd pairing defenseman with a mean streak that has offensive skills for the Canucks. Both in terms of player availability and cap hit.
Staal is more than a third line center. He plays 20 minutes a game and shadows other team's top lines regularly and does so extremely well. I don't think there's anybody available that can do that, let alone as well as Staal.

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Old
09-04-2009, 04:31 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by aislephive View Post
Staal is more than a third line center. He plays 20 minutes a game and shadows other team's top lines regularly and does so extremely well. I don't think there's anybody available that can do that, let alone as well as Staal.
Ryan Kesler

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Old
09-04-2009, 04:38 PM
  #54
Malkin4Top6Wingerz
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Originally Posted by bieksa 3 View Post
Ryan Kesler
I wasn't aware Ryan Kesler was coming over to Pittsburgh in this proposal.

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Old
09-04-2009, 04:49 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by aislephive View Post
I wasn't aware Ryan Kesler was coming over to Pittsburgh in this proposal.
Oh sorry my bad didn't read you'r hole post

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Old
09-04-2009, 05:06 PM
  #56
Barney Gumble
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Originally Posted by aislephive View Post
Staal is more than a third line center. He plays 20 minutes a game and shadows other team's top lines regularly and does so extremely well. I don't think there's anybody available that can do that, let alone as well as Staal.
Isn't that what the typical 3rd line center function/duties are? To play against the other team's top line forwards?

I think he can be more than that but unfortunately for him, he's on the same team with arguably the top two players in the league.

You're the one who said a 3rd line center would be harder to find than 2nd pairing defenseman at this point. My response was only to disagree with that.

Bieksa is also more than your typical 2nd pairing defenseman. He's a great middleweight fighter than plays with a mean streak (and unlike Shane O'Brien - isn't a penalty magnet) and can put up some points. Like Staal, that kind of player doesn't grow on trees.


Last edited by Barney Gumble: 09-04-2009 at 05:16 PM.
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Old
09-04-2009, 05:17 PM
  #57
LickTheEnvelope
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As much as I like Staal this doesn't make any sense...

Staal isn't what you want in a 2nd line center... and we allready have Kesler, Johnson and others to round out our center position on our 3rd/4th lines.

This is a trade proposal that doesn't really fit with either team...

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Old
09-04-2009, 05:19 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aislephive View Post
I wasn't aware Ryan Kesler was coming over to Pittsburgh in this proposal.
Excatly and Staal for Kesler would be a wash anyways... we allready have a "Staal type" centerman in Vancouver. This deal makes no sense...

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Old
09-04-2009, 05:21 PM
  #59
Ronaldo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
As much as I like Staal this doesn't make any sense...

Staal isn't what you want in a 2nd line center... and we allready have Kesler, Johnson and others to round out our center position on our 3rd/4th lines.

This is a trade proposal that doesn't really fit with either team...
I disagree Staal would be a 2 nd line center on mostly every team in the NHL only reason he isn't in Pitsburg cause they have Malkin and Crosby thats like saying Ryan Kesler or Dave Bolland isn't what you want in a 2 nd line center

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Old
09-04-2009, 05:30 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
Excatly and Staal for Kesler would be a wash anyways... we allready have a "Staal type" centerman in Vancouver. This deal makes no sense...
I'm also sort of curious why the Canucks couldn't have Staal and Kesler. Saying "oh well we have one of those" isn't a valid argument in my opinion. Vancouver with that type of defensive prowess wouldn't need to have an offense that scored goals in bunches. It would just alter the way they play, and would make them probably the toughest team in the league to play against.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
A third line center (not saying that's what Staal would be on another team) is far easier to replace for the Pens than a tough 2nd pairing defenseman with a mean streak that has offensive skills for the Canucks. Both in terms of player availability and cap hit.
And Staal plays just a 3rd line role on the Pens?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
Isn't that what the typical 3rd line center function/duties are? To play against the other team's top line forwards?

I think he can be more than that but unfortunately for him, he's on the same team with arguably the top two players in the league.

You're the one who said a 3rd line center would be harder to find than 2nd pairing defenseman at this point. My response was only to disagree with that.

Bieksa is also more than your typical 2nd pairing defenseman. He's a great middleweight fighter than plays with a mean streak (and unlike Shane O'Brien - isn't a penalty magnet) and can put up some points. Like Staal, that kind of player doesn't grow on trees.
Solid 2nd pairing defensmen aren't as hard to find as a 20 year old who has the experience, talent, and potential Staal has. Routinely in free agency there are solid 2nd pairing defensemen that fit the mold of Bieksa. Toronto signed 2 of them just this offseason.

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Old
09-04-2009, 05:33 PM
  #61
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why do people say we don't need Staal because we already have a similar type player in Kesler? I'm pretty sure having two Keslers would be a good thing.

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Old
09-04-2009, 05:33 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
I'm also sort of curious why the Canucks couldn't have Staal and Kesler. Saying "oh well we have one of those" isn't a valid argument in my opinion. Vancouver with that type of defensive prowess wouldn't need to have an offense that scored goals in bunches. It would just alter the way they play, and would make them probably the toughest team in the league to play against.
I don't think people are saying "we have a strong two-way center, why get another one" - I think they are saying "we have a strong two-way center, why give up a physical offensive defenseman who is unlike any other player in the organization to get another two-way center."

I'd love to have Staal on the Canucks, but not at the expense of Kevin Bieksa.

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Old
09-04-2009, 05:47 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by roddy View Post
I don't think people are saying "we have a strong two-way center, why get another one" - I think they are saying "we have a strong two-way center, why give up a physical offensive defenseman who is unlike any other player in the organization to get another two-way center."

I'd love to have Staal on the Canucks, but not at the expense of Kevin Bieksa.
I get you're trying to stick up for your fanbase, but this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
Excatly and Staal for Kesler would be a wash anyways... we allready have a "Staal type" centerman in Vancouver. This deal makes no sense...
...is more of the vibe I'm getting.

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Old
09-05-2009, 02:45 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
I get you're trying to stick up for your fanbase, but this...



...is more of the vibe I'm getting.

Because of the value we would have to give up to acquire Staal.

Nobody is saying that we wouldn't want Jordan Staal on our team. If Shero threw Staal at Vancouver for scraps, you can bet Gillis would be all over that.

Unfortunately, our desire to have Staal is not big enough to send back a physical, 40pt defenseman, creating a hole in our defence just to acquire a player who is similar to one we already have.

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Old
09-05-2009, 03:00 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by PoolChamp View Post
why do people say we don't need Staal because we already have a similar type player in Kesler? I'm pretty sure having two Keslers would be a good thing.
I think people would like to have Staal on the canucks but don't want to give up Bieksa Schneider and a 2 nd round pick for him

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Old
09-05-2009, 04:27 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Dugray View Post
I'm totally going to get roasted for this, but I think it improves both teams.

To Pit:
K. Bieksa
C. Schneider
2011 2nd rounder

To Van:
J. Staal

Pittsburgh gets a solid defenseman who can help Gonchar carry the offensive load on the backend. They get a great goalie prospect to help backup and continue to push Fleury and a draft pick in what people are saying is a very deep draft in 2011.

Vancouver gets a young 2nd line center to play with R. Kesler. I believe Kesler and Staal would make a formidable line regardless of who the third wheel is and would be adept at both creating offense with their size, skill and speed, but at the same time be decimating to other teams offenses since both are great at shutting other players down.
Umm, have you ever heard of the guy named M A Fleaury???? Really??? Why would the Pens trade an intigal piece of their cup winning team for that???

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Old
09-05-2009, 04:29 AM
  #67
HockeyAndTheSox
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Umm, have you ever heard of the guy named M A Fleaury???? Really??? Why would the Pens trade an intigal piece of their cup winning team for that???
And that came from a Flyers fan!

See how bad your proposal is?

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Old
09-05-2009, 04:33 AM
  #68
phlocky
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Originally Posted by Skelator 786 View Post
No thanks. Jordan Staal is overrated by Pittsburgh "fans" and isn't much of an upgrade over Kesler if an upgrade at all. And he comes with a 4 million dollar price tag.

Staal is about on par with Kessel (so it really doesn't make sense from Vanc's POV unless you believe that one of the 2 can become a legit scoring 2nd line center and honestly, I believe both could actually do very well in that regard but both are so go defensively that it's more important from a "tam" perspective that both play as a defensive minded 2-way center).

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Old
09-05-2009, 04:35 AM
  #69
phlocky
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Originally Posted by pensteel71 View Post
And that came from a Flyers fan!

See how bad your proposal is?

Actually my son and daughter are Pens fans and I get to watch almost as many Pens games as I do Flyers ganes (not a bad thing as I just love watching all hockey and also, the Canucks are my #2 team).

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Old
09-05-2009, 04:37 AM
  #70
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[QUOTE=roddy;20984002]I don't think people are saying "we have a strong two-way center, why get another one" - I think they are saying "we have a strong two-way center, why give up a physical offensive defenseman who is unlike any other player in the organization to get another two-way center."

I'd love to have Staal on the Canucks, but not at the expense of Kevin Bieksa.[/QUOTE]

THAT is perfectly fine and reasonable and yes, I agree with you. However, if Vanc DIDN'T have Kesler then this package would NOT be enough to get Staal. This proposal just falis on so many levels from BOTH teams perspective.

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Old
09-05-2009, 12:27 PM
  #71
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Dunno how Schneider could compete with Fleury

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Old
09-05-2009, 01:33 PM
  #72
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i'm going outside to lay in the street for 15 minutes.

i'm hoping i don't return

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Old
09-05-2009, 02:21 PM
  #73
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Come on give this guy credit, he spelled Jordan Staal's name right

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Old
09-05-2009, 02:28 PM
  #74
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Those who don't see potential in Staal just need to look how he did after Bylsma took over. Now that a system is in place that caters to Jordan's style of play, some serious offensive progression could occur this year.

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Old
09-05-2009, 02:28 PM
  #75
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Staal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kesler.

Sorry Canucks fans.

He's playing with Malkin and Crosby in front of him in depth.

Kesler's playing with..Henrik Sedin in front of him?

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