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Trade Proposal: Anton Babchuk

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Old
09-08-2009, 10:33 PM
  #26
FlaggerX
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Originally Posted by leesmith View Post
FlaggerX, teach one of them to play center or defense???
Probably not by the beginning of this season, at least not well. But if they do my money's on Dorsett. I'd like to see him in our lineup, particularly after his playoff performance.

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09-08-2009, 10:37 PM
  #27
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Babchuk for multiple years > Klesla for just this year. Can't wait until that piece of crap is gone.

And if you can trade Regner for Babchuk, you do it. Regner's upside is what Babchuk is right now, and there is no guarantee Regner ever makes the NHL, and if he does, it's as a 5/6 guy.

The only D prospect that's untouchable is Moore, that's it.

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09-08-2009, 11:05 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Timeless Winter View Post
Babchuk for multiple years > Klesla for just this year. Can't wait until that piece of crap is gone.
Harsh words but at least your consistent and known for tough talk... Klesla is much better than you profess, he will do his job even when the rest of the team takes a night off. That's what I like about him.

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Old
09-08-2009, 11:22 PM
  #29
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Carolina is in a bind with Babchuk. They're either going to get nothing as he goes back to the KHL, or they're going to get very little. It sucks for them, but is the truth.

Personally I think anything over a 3rd rd pick is too high.

The Jackets would be taking on an unknown salary in Babchuk, and that's a tough risk. We aren't trading players on a contract for players on a contract. We're trading players on a contract for a player's rights. What if we trade for him and he still decides to make outrageous demands?

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09-09-2009, 12:16 AM
  #30
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If Malhotra were willing to accept a contract for the league minimum, he'd be back.

Klesla isn't going anywhere unless a multitude of things happen. This would include multiple players who aren't expected to crack the top six putting on a clinic in training camp, a deal being made with a fair return for Klesla (basically overpayment), and at least another NHL defenseman joining the fold. Some people are so blinded over the fact that he hasn't developed into a premier offensive threat that they completely overlook what he is able to do out there. Pop in a tape of the stretch run the last two years if you've forgotten, or don't do it if you'd rather stew over it.

As for the talk of what exactly Babchuk is right now....don't forget Andrei Plekhanov. Two years ago everyone was so focused on his shot that the flaws in his game were overlooked; last year when the puck wasn't hitting the net, those flaws were magnified a great deal in a variety of ways.

Here is the list of what a Babchuk deal would bring.
1) A defenseman who fills a need right now for at least one year
2) Another player who, no matter the length or size of his contract, will be approached by the KHL during the offseason next year and possibly during the season
3) Someone who is of a very similar personality type as Alexander Svitov, for what that's worth (and it is only an issue due to point #2)
4) A high-reward player, but also a high-risk one on points #2 and #3
5) An unknown with the contract situation, unless Carolina is going to make his demands known to potential suitors and/or give his agent permission to discuss terms with other teams

All things considered, Columbus is not likely to offer very much to get a deal done. The highest to give up is roughly a third-rounder for two reasons.
1) Carolina can't really take on salary, thus nixing Chimera unless there's another player coming back (and none makes sense for both teams).
2) A draft pick in next year's draft would be at least a year behind a draft pick that has already been turned into a player. And it's also easier to either acquire a different pick for a player (i.e. Chimera) or package to move up with a player in conjunction with another pick than it is to turn a draft pick into a player on the rise who is a hot commodity. This is where Babchuk being on the block helps out; if he were under contract or at least on good terms, there's no way a deal would be done.

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Old
09-09-2009, 02:16 AM
  #31
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I'd think that any of Ruth, Regner, or Sigalet would get it done. I've seen a couple of Canes' fans say that Rutherford was high on Ruth for a while at some point. Rutherford is in a bind here because he's let his ill feelings towards Babchuk get out int he open and I don't think it'll cost as much as most people think to get him.

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Old
09-09-2009, 07:44 AM
  #32
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Then he can laugh his way down to Atlanta or over to Europe. I have no problem with that.
True enough, but to suggest that he may even consider a two-way deal is a large stretch.

Aaron Rome didn't want a two way which is why we let him walk.

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09-09-2009, 07:48 AM
  #33
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Don't underestimate Carolina's need to get rid of Babchuk. The main concern would be offering a better deal than New Jersey (the other team rumored to have the best shot), but they've publicly stated they're not going to sign this guy and the Babchuk/Rutherford(Carolina's GM) relationship has never been good.

I would love Babchuk. I'm not concerned about his attitude. If he wanted to play in Russia, he's had all summer to go back but he's very serious about getting an NHL deal up to the point that he's changed agents. On the 3rd pairing and splitting games between Methot/Russell and various injuries I think he'd be a great fit for the price tag. Certainly better than Backman for probably half the cost.

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Old
09-09-2009, 08:26 AM
  #34
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Frankly I do not want to give up any D prospects in this deal if it goes down. We are already short in that spot. This has to work from a position of picks and forwards to be a fit for us. Giving up dmen where we are weak does not gain us anything.

To CBJ:
Babs

To Car:
Chimmer or Modin
Conditional pick 3rd rounder if he signs 4th rounder should he not

or

Conditional 2nd round pick that changes to fourth if he doesn't sign
and minor league prospect wing


Last edited by Aging Goalie: 09-09-2009 at 08:34 AM.
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Old
09-09-2009, 08:35 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Aging Goalie View Post
Frankly I do not want to give up any D prospects in this deal if it goes down. We are already short in that spot. This has to work from a position of picks and forwards to be a fit for us. Giving up dmen where we are weak does not gain us anything.

To CBJ:
Babs

To Car:
Chimmer or Modin
Conditional pick 3rd rounder if he signs 4th rounder should he not

or

Conditional 2nd round pick that changes to fourth if he doesn't sign
and minor league prospect wing
Carolina can't take on salary as they are up against the cap. That's why they're looking for prospects that have not been signed to a NHL contract.

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Old
09-09-2009, 08:38 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Skraut View Post
Carolina can't take on salary as they are up against the cap. That's why they're looking for prospects that have not been signed to a NHL contract.
hence the "or"

The top proposal was my own wishful thinking that would free up space for us. the bottom was what I felt to be more realistic. I probably should have clarified....

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Old
09-09-2009, 09:11 AM
  #37
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Yes, I'm sure Carolina is looking to go over the cap by adding Chimera.

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Don't underestimate Carolina's need to get rid of Babchuk.
Is there a deeper meaning to this statement? Otherwise it really doesn't make much sense. We've know for a couple of months now he wasn't going back to the 'Canes. What could anyone being underestimating at this point or make you think anyone is?

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I would offer Manny Malhotra a 1-2 year, two-way contract
Lee, I generally respect you as a poster and try and behave when responding to you. But I think a smidge of insantity has crept in here. Ok, more then a smidge.

Quote:
The only D prospect that's untouchable is Moore, that's it.
With the likely elevation of Filatov there aren't any more untouchables and I am as high on Moore has you can get. Having said that, I wouldn't move Goloubef for Babchuk either. I think that would be a huge mistake.

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Old
09-09-2009, 09:41 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by leesmith View Post
I would rather pass on getting Babchuk than trade away Goloubef, Regner, Klesla or Voracek.

This.

Just talking about trading away a one or two of those guys brings back painful memories of Francois Beauchemin.


Build from within.

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Old
09-09-2009, 09:47 AM
  #39
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This.

Just talking about trading away a one or two of those guys brings back painful memories of Francois Beauchemin.


Build from within.
But...

But...

Must make a splash, must make trades, oooh have cap room need to spend it, and besides, I told Santa I wanted an enigmatic Russian hockey player for Christmas...

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Old
09-09-2009, 09:53 AM
  #40
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http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/story/1680736.html

The article says that the team looking to make a deal is in no hurry to make a firm offer. It has to be us doesn't it?

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09-09-2009, 09:56 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BR217 View Post
http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/story/1680736.html

The article says that the team looking to make a deal is in no hurry to make a firm offer. It has to be us doesn't it?

Don't know that it "has to be," but it sure sounds like the way Scott prefers to operate!

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09-09-2009, 10:00 AM
  #42
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The article says that the team looking to make a deal is in no hurry to make a firm offer. It has to be us doesn't it?
Has to be? Of course not. But as you seem to be hinting at, if there is a GM that fits the descrtiption of "not in a hurry", it's our boy.

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Old
09-09-2009, 10:03 AM
  #43
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Here is the deal with Babchuk, for those that are curious or scared that Columbus is going to end up giving too much away for him.

1. He is a restricted free agent with salary compensation that would put him in the 2nd round pick bracket for an offer sheet. Carolina would clearly have no intention of matching any kind of offer to him, so the ceiling would obviously be a 2nd round pick. The fact that he has not been moved to this point would probably even lower that to a 3rd round pick or equivalent prospect. Carolina most likely does not want a pick, however, as they would rather deal Babchuk for a player. In particular a young defenseman that is not AHL ready or would be comfortable playing in Junior or the NCAA another season while we get our blue line straight.

2. Carolina has reached and exceeded their internal budget for next season. Any deal that sent Babchuk to any locale would require us to not take any salary in return regardless of how cap friendly the piece may be. No Chimera, No Klesa, No anybody to be frank.

3. Babchuk is not a flight risk for the KHL. He only did that as a means of last resort the season before last. He has been quoted several times as saying he does not like the way they play hockey over there and his future is in the NHL. Do not be afraid of the possibility of him bolting for Russia.

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Old
09-09-2009, 10:09 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Vagrant View Post
Here is the deal with Babchuk, for those that are curious or scared that Columbus is going to end up giving too much away for him.

1. He is a restricted free agent with salary compensation that would put him in the 2nd round pick bracket for an offer sheet. Carolina would clearly have no intention of matching any kind of offer to him, so the ceiling would obviously be a 2nd round pick. The fact that he has not been moved to this point would probably even lower that to a 3rd round pick or equivalent prospect. Carolina most likely does not want a pick, however, as they would rather deal Babchuk for a player. In particular a young defenseman that is not AHL ready or would be comfortable playing in Junior or the NCAA another season while we get our blue line straight.

2. Carolina has reached and exceeded their internal budget for next season. Any deal that sent Babchuk to any locale would require us to not take any salary in return regardless of how cap friendly the piece may be. No Chimera, No Klesa, No anybody to be frank.

3. Babchuk is not a flight risk for the KHL. He only did that as a means of last resort the season before last. He has been quoted several times as saying he does not like the way they play hockey over there and his future is in the NHL. Do not be afraid of the possibility of him bolting for Russia.
Thanks, as always, Vagrant, for your take.

I'm with you on 1 & 3 (although some here have a hangup on #3). The problem is #2. The CBJ is also at its internal budget number as well.

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Old
09-09-2009, 10:13 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassť View Post
Thanks, as always, Vagrant, for your take.

I'm with you on 1 & 3 (although some here have a hangup on #3). The problem is #2. The CBJ is also at its internal budget number as well.
I really think that if Howie can improve the team by adding ~2 mil in salary he'll do it, internal budget or not. At least I would hope.

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09-09-2009, 10:20 AM
  #46
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I really think that if Howie can improve the team by adding ~2 mil in salary he'll do it, internal budget or not. At least I would hope.
Agree. But it isn't my money.

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09-09-2009, 10:23 AM
  #47
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I really think that if Howie can improve the team by adding ~2 mil in salary he'll do it, internal budget or not. At least I would hope.
I would love it if it were true, and we may get to a point of desperation and absolutely HAVE (ie. our ownership/president realize that we are going to be buried if we don't do something) to exceed that budget, but for now, the budget is the budget.

There is definitely time to wait, but I would rather have that new guy in before camp starts, but we clearly aren't desperate at this point. On paper, yes, but we are still tied for first place as of today.

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09-09-2009, 10:36 AM
  #48
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Is there a deeper meaning to this statement? Otherwise it really doesn't make much sense. We've know for a couple of months now he wasn't going back to the 'Canes. What could anyone being underestimating at this point or make you think anyone is?
Considering people have thrown out names including, but not limited to:

Quote:
To CAR
Chimera
Ruth
4th Rnd Pick
Quote:
Chimera
any 1 of Goloubef/Regner/Ruth, their choice.
Quote:
Klesa for Babchuk straight up
I find it laughable that it's MY comment you take issue with. Rutherford has stated he'd like to get a D prospect in return, that's all. Well, I'd also like to win the lottery.

So, considering Rutherford's starting point is probably something like Ruth and Howson's starting point is something like a late-round conditional pick, surely if a deal gets done it's going to be somewhere in between. He's been very public in this negotiation and he has no leverage. As I said in my post, if the Jackets are in on this, the bigger concern is what other team's may be offering or can afford to offer.

The only way Chimera comes into play is if there's another player coming back from Carolina, and I don't see them having any reason to mess with their mix of forwards. If the budget is truly an issue, but Babchuk is a player seen worth the price of the deal and signing terms, Howson will get something done to alleviate the pressure. Those are a lot of if's.

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Old
09-09-2009, 10:55 AM
  #49
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To me this issue is simple- every team interested in Babchuk has more leverage than Rutherford because the Canes have already made it known they want to get rid of him. If they want any sort of compensation they, not the teams trading for him, will have to bite the bullet a bit.

That said, he will still cost something. Trading Klesla for him just because you don't like Klesla is ridiculous. Klesla is worth more to this team than many know. His play in the playoffs were a great sign. Goloubef is a very strong prospect, and one the team can't and likely won't give up for a guy like Babchuk. Ruth maybe, because although he is a high-end prospect, he plays a hell of a lot like Methot, who obviously just re-signed. We need to keep the prospects who can move the puck, it's a severe deficiency in the organization.

Also, the team likely isn't willing to move a first or second rounder. Budget teams (like us) rely on those two rounds to re-stock the team. Now, if we are talking third or lower, yeah, that would make sense. It also fits in with Babchuk's current value.

I would think there are two options

Babchuk for Ruth OR Babchuk for a 3rd and 5th

ALL of that said, we would still need to move salary to accomodate him, so another move would need to take place (looking at you, Chimmer) Carolina is tight financially so a Chimmer for Babchuk trade probably wouldn't be in the cards. Basically unless ownership approves the additional salary, and Carolina accepts a trade for a prospect or a pick(s) then this trade likely won't happen.

You don't overypay to a team with minimal leverage.

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Old
09-09-2009, 11:06 AM
  #50
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I would love it if it were true, and we may get to a point of desperation and absolutely HAVE (ie. our ownership/president realize that we are going to be buried if we don't do something) to exceed that budget, but for now, the budget is the budget.

There is definitely time to wait, but I would rather have that new guy in before camp starts, but we clearly aren't desperate at this point. On paper, yes, but we are still tied for first place as of today.
I have no idea what the internal discussion would be on this guy. He's a project and the idea of him and Russell being the 5/6 doesn't fill me with joy. Having said that, he fills a need so the net result could very well be a gain. Perhaps a large one. Then again he could implode and end up being scratched.

What is this guys salary demands? If you can sign him for 2 or 3 years for a couple of million per, I think you can tweak the current roster and come up some of the cash to offset the dollars.

As far as desperation goes, I'm trying to be realistic. We've put together a decent group of d for 12.8 million, 27th in the league. Honestly, it's a testiment to the players and the coaching staff that we've managed to be competitive with that investment (if you take out Backman's money last year we were like 29th in spending) considering the teams floating around us with that level of investment as well. At this point, Howson has an obligation to the team, fans, coaching staff, and ownership group to resolve this issue. He's done a great job of patching together a group that can make us competitive, but he now has to finish the job. We got lucky on the injury front on the d group last year. When Klesla went down we could call on Methot. Not sure we can hope for that level or health or luck in the event of injury this year.

When you consider we are 30th in the league in spending on goaltending as well, that leads you to the conclusion that we've left ourselves exposed on the entire backend.

We have depth on Wing, but everywhere else we are simply treading water at best.

I'm not blaming Howson or the ownership group this situation. But there is a sense of desperation on my part. I can see the iceberg.

At the end of the day, are we really going to get the oppurtunity at anything better for the cost in near future? This is not my first choice, what we need isn't something that teams let walk.

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