HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Notices

The Kessel File-Volume 2 - Phil Wants Out of Beantown

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
09-09-2009, 11:43 AM
  #76
mooseOAK*
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 42,437
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamlegend View Post
i have a question i've thought of. Could Burke do this?

Boston says they're gonna match any offer Toronto makes. But when the season starts, they can't. Since you cannot go over the hard cap. So, the Leafs wait til October (since Kessels out til December anyways) and makes a RFA bid then? Boston is tied up, can't trade quickly/drop valuable players to waiver, and the Leafs get Kessel at a price above the cap of Boston

Is this possible?
Oh yeah, I am sure that Chiarelli will make some sort of move before training camp ends so the Bruins don't end up in that situation.

mooseOAK* is offline  
Old
09-09-2009, 11:45 AM
  #77
smoke meat pete*
VoiceofReason
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,905
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by yohan1212 View Post
How is Toronto going to offer Kessel $5 mill + per year which it will take to sign him and not have their own cap nightmares?? wont they then be over it too?? Chirelli has ZERO urgency since kessel is out till December anyway.. He is calling burkes bluff.. burke needs outgoing salary to fit kessel into the cap not an outgoing 1,2,3..
Toronto would be drastically improving a position on the team, and therefore can afford to dump a 3-4 million dollar player to fit him in. Any of Finger, MVR, or Stempniak can be dumped by any means necessary. The other option is to send Bozak to the Marlies to start the season. He currently represents $3.75 million of the Leafs salary cap.

According to capgeek, the Leafs have $2.1 million. Kessel will miss at least 6 weeks, allowing them to wait to dump his salary. If Bozak is in the minors, they have $5.8 million. Additionally, they have 8 defenceman listed in that number, so depending on who is moved out, they have that too. As an example, if Bozak is sent to the minors and MVR is off the roster (you choose how) and Kessel gets $5.5 million, the Leafs still have $3.3 million to play with.

smoke meat pete* is offline  
Old
09-09-2009, 11:46 AM
  #78
Mess
Global Moderator
 
Mess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 59,496
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamlegend View Post
i have a question i've thought of. Could Burke do this?

Boston says they're gonna match any offer Toronto makes. But when the season starts, they can't. Since you cannot go over the hard cap. So, the Leafs wait til October (since Kessels out til December anyways) and makes a RFA bid then? Boston is tied up, can't trade quickly/drop valuable players to waiver, and the Leafs get Kessel at a price above the cap of Boston

Is this possible?
No it simply puts more pressure on Boston.

Once and offer sheet is made a team has 7 days to accept or decline .. That 7 days gives a team plenty of time to make the appropriate roster moves to accept the contract amount and keep Kessel..

Dumping a player on waivers to free up space takes only minutes to compete the paper work and inform the NHL.

Bruins could also make trades of other players (but not Kessel) during that week although be under the gun a little to get fair value in return depending on who that player is .

Kessel is also currently recovering from injury so Bruins could also place him on long-term IR until he returns and buy themselves more weeks to get in line with the Cap ceiling.

Mess is offline  
Old
09-09-2009, 11:47 AM
  #79
smoke meat pete*
VoiceofReason
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,905
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamlegend View Post
i have a question i've thought of. Could Burke do this?

Boston says they're gonna match any offer Toronto makes. But when the season starts, they can't. Since you cannot go over the hard cap. So, the Leafs wait til October (since Kessels out til December anyways) and makes a RFA bid then? Boston is tied up, can't trade quickly/drop valuable players to waiver, and the Leafs get Kessel at a price above the cap of Boston

Is this possible?
Boston has 7 days to match, giving them 7 days to find a way to get the salary in. With Kessel being injured, I'd imagine it gives them another month or two after that to figure it out.

smoke meat pete* is offline  
Old
09-09-2009, 11:49 AM
  #80
smoke meat pete*
VoiceofReason
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,905
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post

Dumping a player on waivers to free up space takes only minutes to compete the paper work and inform the NHL.
Does the players salry come off when he is put on waivers, or after he has been claimed or sent down?

smoke meat pete* is offline  
Old
09-09-2009, 11:53 AM
  #81
Seguins Dragon*
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: In Carls Garage
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,613
vCash: 500
I just don't see Toronto having the assets Boston wants for this deal.

As another poster mentioned, the ship has sailed on the Kaberle deal, I believe this too because Boston's D is all shored up...

I do not believe Toronto has the assets to send Boston's way other than Schenn. Yes, I realise I said Boston's D is shored up, but Schenn is a special commodity, he is young, he is solid, and under a rookie contract for the next 2 years which would help Boston's cap situation...

Curious what Leafs think of Schenn for Kessel straight up... I do not think they do it but if there was a trade I see him being the only roster player\prospect boston would want...

Tlusty\Grabo\Kulemin just do not seem like the style of players Boston would want or fit into their system, sure they are valuable and good assets, but not what Boston would want...

Which leaves us with draft picks... Kessel >>>> 1st, 2nd, 3rd... I say this because the chances of getting a player of Kessel's cailber out of those picks is VERY slim... so I think if a trade WAS made it would have to include two 1st rounders... yes, it seems like a lot... but you need to give a lot in order to get a lot back...

Unless of course an offer sheet is tendered... which Chia has permission to match anything sent Boston's way... Now if Toronto sent a ridicolous offer of 6 mill per year, I highly doubt Boston matches... than again, if Toronot sends a 5 mill per year offer, I would think Boston would match because the compensation in return is not that great, added to Kessel going to a division rival...

If Toronto wants to aquire Kessel VIA offer sheet... they would need guess the amount that is enough Kessel signs a contract (which WILL be 5 mill+ because that is what he is reportedly asking)... and an amount that is too large for Boston to match... I think 5.5 over 3 years would fill this void and be the perfect deal for TO... this number because compensation will ONLY be still 1st, 2nd and 3rd... sure, its over payment, but Toronto will get their man... add to that, if it IS a 3 year deal, they will still have 1 year left of RFA once the original offer sheet is over... than again, no garuntees, Boston may still match...

THough if I was BB and Kessel was whom I longed for... I offer Kessel 5.5 for 3 years...

Well, actually, if I was BB, I would wait till next year... let guys develop this year, maybe hopefully get a top 10 pick in the draft, sure it would suck for Leafs for 1 more year, but I do not see a playoffs with this current Leafs team and what good is finishing 9th?... So I let team tank do its thing again this year and than send 2 offer sheets, 1 to toews and 1 to kane and force Chicago to pick one... but thats a whole other story

Seguins Dragon* is offline  
Old
09-09-2009, 11:55 AM
  #82
embracedbias
Registered User
 
embracedbias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Waterloo
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,917
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBruins View Post
I'm not even sure Ian White would draw a whole lot of interest from the Bruins. The D appears to be pretty much set at this point. Adding Ian White would require a follow up move or two to clear out a top-6 defenseman (which would likely be Andrew Ference). Is the upgrade worth it?

Ideally, I think the Bruins would like to add blue chip D prospect to their system. The other two teams speculated to be in trade talks with the Bruins regarding Kessel are Nashville and New York. Both teams have a deeper pool of D prospects to choose from.

I also wouldn't rule out Kaberle being involved. Chiarelli did say he had contingency plans in place in the event he comes to terms with Kessel or is forced to match an offer sheet. So it's probably safe to assume he has other ways of clearing money if need be. A top-4 of Chara-Kaberle-Wideman-Morris would be tops in the league IMO.
If Boston matches the offer sheet, Kessel won't be able to be traded for a year.

embracedbias is offline  
Old
09-09-2009, 11:57 AM
  #83
TOG26
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,469
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dynrehab View Post
Does the players salry come off when he is put on waivers, or after he has been claimed or sent down?
Only after he is claimed or sent down which I am not sure how that works in the offseason.....

TOG26 is offline  
Old
09-09-2009, 11:58 AM
  #84
Mess
Global Moderator
 
Mess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 59,496
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dynrehab View Post
Does the players salry come off when he is put on waivers, or after he has been claimed or sent down?
Claimed or unclaimed, sent down or not, all of that doesn't matter as to the outcome.

As soon as the 24 hour waiver wire time period ends his salary comes off the books.

Boston could toss say Michael Ryder on waivers making $4 mil, and after 24 hours waiver wire time passes his $4 mil could be used and applied to match Kessel offer sheet.. Then Boston places Kessel on long-term IR until he returns and if Ryder goes unclaimed (which is likely as not many teams are going to be in a position to pick up a 2 year $4 mil contract due to their own Cap room issues), then Boston simply re-inserts him into the line-up as the sub/recall for the injured Kessel and while Kessel is out, Ryder's contract does not count against the teams Cap as CBA allows you to replace injured players without Cap consequences at a lower salary.

Not until Kessel is ready to return do Bruins have a issue when they want to play both Kessel and Ryder at the same time.

Mess is offline  
Old
09-09-2009, 11:58 AM
  #85
Newfie John
Hall of Famer
 
Newfie John's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,203
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamlegend View Post
i have a question i've thought of. Could Burke do this?

Boston says they're gonna match any offer Toronto makes. But when the season starts, they can't. Since you cannot go over the hard cap. So, the Leafs wait til October (since Kessels out til December anyways) and makes a RFA bid then? Boston is tied up, can't trade quickly/drop valuable players to waiver, and the Leafs get Kessel at a price above the cap of Boston

Is this possible?
This has been brought up multiple times as a possible plan of Burke's. There's no way to fully ensure though that Boston can't match, as they have 7 days to move players around to make room.

Newfie John is offline  
Old
09-09-2009, 11:59 AM
  #86
disgruntleddave
Registered User
 
disgruntleddave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,493
vCash: 50
What's the deal with this talk about "top 10" or "top 15" protection? How does it work and what is it?

Also, I think it's more likely we see burke make a trade than an offer sheet. Then again what do I know.

disgruntleddave is offline  
Old
09-09-2009, 12:02 PM
  #87
joepeps
Registered User
 
joepeps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Toronto
Country: Italy
Posts: 11,783
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by disgruntleddave View Post
What's the deal with this talk about "top 10" or "top 15" protection? How does it work and what is it?

Also, I think it's more likely we see burke make a trade than an offer sheet. Then again what do I know.
your not getting Kessel and having top 10 or top 15 protection
not even top 5... Kessel is a very good player and was picked a 5...

you might get a top 3 protection

It's basically, If the leafs finish in the bottom 10 that pick stays with the Leafs and Boston would get Toronto'ss first pick in the following year. If they are 11th last, then Boston picks at that spot

joepeps is offline  
Old
09-09-2009, 12:02 PM
  #88
91
Registered User
 
91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: the ghetto
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,821
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by disgruntleddave View Post
What's the deal with this talk about "top 10" or "top 15" protection? How does it work and what is it?

Also, I think it's more likely we see burke make a trade than an offer sheet. Then again what do I know.
If the pick lands in the top 10 or 15 we would get to keep it. Thats what it means.

91 is offline  
Old
09-09-2009, 12:03 PM
  #89
yohan1212
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,139
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dynrehab View Post
Toronto would be drastically improving a position on the team, and therefore can afford to dump a 3-4 million dollar player to fit him in. Any of Finger, MVR, or Stempniak can be dumped by any means necessary. The other option is to send Bozak to the Marlies to start the season. He currently represents $3.75 million of the Leafs salary cap.

According to capgeek, the Leafs have $2.1 million. Kessel will miss at least 6 weeks, allowing them to wait to dump his salary. If Bozak is in the minors, they have $5.8 million. Additionally, they have 8 defenceman listed in that number, so depending on who is moved out, they have that too. As an example, if Bozak is sent to the minors and MVR is off the roster (you choose how) and Kessel gets $5.5 million, the Leafs still have $3.3 million to play with.
So by the same reason, boston would have about 2 months to dump salary after matching... I am pretty sure if a player is on the LTIR the team can exceed the cap by the players salary while the player is out. Even though they were tight to the cap last year boston was still looking to add a player because sturm was on the LTIR and they were allowed to exceed the cap by is salary if they wanted to.

yohan1212 is offline  
Old
09-09-2009, 12:03 PM
  #90
smoke meat pete*
VoiceofReason
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,905
vCash: 500
Quote:
I just don't see Toronto having the assets Boston wants for this deal.
The biggest asset the Leafs have is cap space, and Boston doesn't have any choice with that.


Quote:
As another poster mentioned, the ship has sailed on the Kaberle deal, I believe this too because Boston's D is all shored up...
Derek Morris was good offensively 10 years ago. Kaberle is a huge upgrade over Morris.

Quote:
I do not believe Toronto has the assets to send Boston's way other than Schenn. Yes, I realise I said Boston's D is shored up, but Schenn is a special commodity, he is young, he is solid, and under a rookie contract for the next 2 years which would help Boston's cap situation...

Curious what Leafs think of Schenn for Kessel straight up... I do not think they do it but if there was a trade I see him being the only roster player\prospect boston would want...
This move would not surprise me, but I'm very hopeful it would not happen.

Quote:
Tlusty\Grabo\Kulemin just do not seem like the style of players Boston would want or fit into their system, sure they are valuable and good assets, but not what Boston would want...
Tlusty and Kulemin have the salary that Boston would want, and waiver eligability which gives them flexibility.

Quote:
Which leaves us with draft picks... Kessel >>>> 1st, 2nd, 3rd... I say this because the chances of getting a player of Kessel's cailber out of those picks is VERY slim... so I think if a trade WAS made it would have to include two 1st rounders... yes, it seems like a lot... but you need to give a lot in order to get a lot back...
The salary cap may be the determining factor. Of course there is no loss to Burke if the deal is matched. He just sits back and waits to see what else is available to him.


Quote:
THough if I was BB and Kessel was whom I longed for... I offer Kessel 5.5 for 3 years...
Seems about the right money, but I'd bet it will be 5 years.

Quote:
Well, actually, if I was BB, I would wait till next year... let guys develop this year, maybe hopefully get a top 10 pick in the draft, sure it would suck for Leafs for 1 more year, but I do not see a playoffs with this current Leafs team and what good is finishing 9th?... So I let team tank do its thing again this year and than send 2 offer sheets, 1 to toews and 1 to kane and force Chicago to pick one... but thats a whole other story
It is too late for Burke to tank. If he was willing to go that route, Kaberle would be gone, and Komi and Beauch would not be here.

smoke meat pete* is offline  
Old
09-09-2009, 12:05 PM
  #91
EazyB97
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 27,855
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAstles91 View Post
If the pick lands in the top 10 or 15 we would get to keep it. Thats what it means.
Or it carries over to the next year, depending on the conditions of the trade.

EazyB97 is online now  
Old
09-09-2009, 12:05 PM
  #92
Newfie John
Hall of Famer
 
Newfie John's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,203
vCash: 500
There's no doubting that Chiarelli has short-term options to fit Kessel in, it's the long-term issues that has kept Kessel's signature off the paper.

Newfie John is offline  
Old
09-09-2009, 12:07 PM
  #93
smoke meat pete*
VoiceofReason
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,905
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Claimed or unclaimed, sent down or not, all of that doesn't matter as to the outcome.

As soon as the 24 hour waiver wire time period ends his salary comes off the books.
Interesting. Didn't Battaglia go on waivers last year and continue to play? Either way, it is not the "minutes" thast it takes to fill out the paper work, but mostly irrelevant.

smoke meat pete* is offline  
Old
09-09-2009, 12:09 PM
  #94
smoke meat pete*
VoiceofReason
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,905
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by yohan1212 View Post
So by the same reason, boston would have about 2 months to dump salary after matching... I am pretty sure if a player is on the LTIR the team can exceed the cap by the players salary while the player is out. Even though they were tight to the cap last year boston was still looking to add a player because sturm was on the LTIR and they were allowed to exceed the cap by is salary if they wanted to.
That is absolutely true, but as mentioned, there are long term implications for Boston, that Toronto does not have to deal with, to the same degree.

smoke meat pete* is offline  
Old
09-09-2009, 12:27 PM
  #95
Mess
Global Moderator
 
Mess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 59,496
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dynrehab View Post
Interesting. Didn't Battaglia go on waivers last year and continue to play? Either way, it is not the "minutes" thast it takes to fill out the paper work, but mostly irrelevant.
Sorry if the "minutes to fill out the paper work" caused any confusion here.. It does take only a simple phone call to NHL head offices notifying the league that the Bruins are matching the Kessel offer sheet and to make room under the CAP by placing player XXXX on waivers to accommodate Kessel's offer sheet salary and contract.

Since any offer sheet has a 7 day period of time attached, that allows plenty of opportunity during that week for Bruins to address their Cap issue to allow for the league to approve Bruins matching and keeping Kessel.

Since a player placed on waivers can't be pulled off them until the time period ends and all other 29 teams have a shot at him, the moment he is really placed on waivers for all intents and purposes is the time the Cap space is now available for Kessel. Even if they had to wait the full waiver period there would still be plenty of time.

Mess is offline  
Old
09-09-2009, 12:32 PM
  #96
robdicks
Registered User
 
robdicks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Welland ON
Posts: 5,518
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dynrehab View Post
The whole point of my post was that I was going to be disappointed because I always am when it comes to the Leafs, but thanks for treating it like some juvenile trade thread.
i was kidding around.. i knew what u meant haha

robdicks is offline  
Old
09-09-2009, 12:54 PM
  #97
BadBruins
Registered User
 
BadBruins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: PEI
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,096
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by embracedbias View Post
If Boston matches the offer sheet, Kessel won't be able to be traded for a year.
I fully understand that. It's the follow up moves involving other players that I'm talking about. If Chiarelli does match, it's likely another RW such as Ryder or Kobasew + that gets shipped out as a result.

BadBruins is online now  
Old
09-09-2009, 01:00 PM
  #98
Polk High
Registered User
 
Polk High's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,002
vCash: 500
Does anyone here see the Allison tryout as a pre-cursor to a deal for Kessel. Just seems to me that those two would play well together. Burke seems to make his decisions based on future moves, so the questionable JA tryout may give us a time frame for a Kessel deal. If Burke's move is along my line of thinking he may want Kessel here during training camp in order to see what he and Allison could do together. Make sense, or just an overactive bored summer imagination?

Polk High is offline  
Old
09-09-2009, 01:03 PM
  #99
joepeps
Registered User
 
joepeps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Toronto
Country: Italy
Posts: 11,783
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2plus50equalsCup View Post
Does anyone here see the Allison tryout as a pre-cursor to a deal for Kessel. Just seems to me that those two would play well together. Burke seems to make his decisions based on future moves, so the questionable JA tryout may give us a time frame for a Kessel deal. If Burke's move is along my line of thinking he may want Kessel here during training camp in order to see what he and Allison could do together. Make sense, or just an overactive bored summer imagination?
Kessel is out till Dec

joepeps is offline  
Old
09-09-2009, 01:05 PM
  #100
Polk High
Registered User
 
Polk High's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,002
vCash: 500
Looked right past that!

Polk High is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:36 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.