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[SJ/LA/OTT] Heatley to SJ, Frolov & Stoll to OTT, Marleau to LA per ESPN

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Old
09-09-2009, 10:21 PM
  #51
Pinkfloyd
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Originally Posted by DaveMatthew View Post
San Jose upgrades offensively, getting a pretty much guaranteed 45-50 goal, 90-100 point player for their top line to team up with Thornton. Heatley's also signed for next season allowing them to avoid possibly losing Marleau for nothing, plus they finally make a significant splash in changing the core of a team that's underachieved in the postseason for several years now.

Los Angeles gets the 1b center they need to go along with Kopitar, a significant upgrade on Stoll/Handzus.

Ottawa gets a legitimate top line player to replace Heatley this season, plus another top nine forward who's more than capable of being a big shot on the powerplay point, something they desperately need. And with the cap space, they'll have a good shot of re-signing Frolov after this year, along with Volchenkov (apparently they're the best of friends).

I think it works out pretty well for all teams involved.
It absolutely does not work out pretty well for all teams. The Sharks get better offensively but they lose out big time defensively and lose out big time with versatility. They also get worse in the future because they will not have the flexibility to keep Setoguchi, Pavelski, and add a new goalie or keep Nabokov because of the hike in cap space given to Heatley over Marleau and a potential drop in the cap.

LA definitely upgrades the 2nd line center spot but why would they put 6.3 mil in a 2nd line center. That doesn't make a lot of sense for them.

As for Ottawa, there are definitely good assets but I think Murray believes he can get more than that for Heatley.

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Old
09-09-2009, 10:23 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
I think we absolutely could get Marleau for Heatley.

Heatley want's to be traded and has done everything possible to completely sabotage the senators options.

Marleau loves his team, had a career season, and doesn't want to be traded. San Jose has no reason to trade him other than to get someone better (we have cap space now).

Heatley is probably better than Marleau value wise were all things equal. Marleau plays a better two way game and is no cancer. Evens them out.

If I'm DW, I walk away laughing and keep Marleau. I prefer him any day of the week.
Thanks for the laugh, I needed it after a long day. hfboards never fails in this regard.

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Old
09-09-2009, 10:27 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Jano View Post
Thanks for the laugh, I needed it after a long day. hfboards never fails in this regard.
Yup, I never get tired of people making smarmy comments that serve no point in the discussion.

Way to represent the useless poster brigade sir.

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Old
09-09-2009, 10:37 PM
  #54
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If this is the rumor, then its VERY likely that there are other pieces involved. If Ottawa is getting a soon-to-be UFA and Stoll, they're probably getting a pick, prospect or both. Maybe LA has to take on an unwanted bottom player. Maybe San Jose has to add something, or gets something more.

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Old
09-09-2009, 10:41 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
Stoll was fine here in L.A. IF this were to happen I'd hope for another piece coming back to L.A., Douglas Murray?
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Originally Posted by Jcrew View Post
That actually makes the most sense, I think.
Because San Jose's defence needs more crippling. Sure thing.

In the immortal words of Bruce Willis to Reginald Vel Johnson....

"Welcome to the party, pal!"

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Old
09-09-2009, 10:49 PM
  #56
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is marleau really that good that sj fans can complain about getting him for heatley straight up? take off your aqua-marine-orange-gold-tourquoise coloured glasses, then say thank you for robbing us and LA.

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Old
09-09-2009, 10:57 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by skid17 View Post
is marleau really that good that sj fans can complain about getting him for heatley straight up? take off your aqua-marine-orange-gold-tourquoise coloured glasses, then say thank you for robbing us and LA.
Have you not read a single Heatley to SJ thread this offseason? Sharks fans have been saying that it's not about skill, it's about cost. And a minority of us don't want Heatley because of his attitude. But This trade would not be Heatley for Marleau straight up, even if that is what Murray would take. The Sharks would then have to clear about another $1 million in cap space just to fit Heatley. But then they also need more cap space to replace the player they just moved to fit Heatley in. And then rather than having almost $20 million coming off payroll this coming summer to re-sign Pavelski, Setoguchi, Joslin, Moore, possibly Nabby and Marleau, AND deal with a declining cap; the Sharks now have $7.5 mil tied up in Heatley, which will likely cost them one of their good young players on top of what they paid for Heatley, and on top of whoever they had to move to fit Heatley into the roster.

The Sharks depth sucks as it is. Adding Heatley is a train wreck to the team now and for the rest of contract. And yes, I personally think he's a locker room poison waiting to happen, and wouldn't want him on my team even if he came for free.

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09-09-2009, 11:01 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Sureves View Post
This trade sucks for Ottawa but it could very well happen
Well, considering the situation, this trade wouldn't be THAT bad, but it all depends if we can extend Frolov to a reasonnable cap hit (4.5). Look as well for DaveMatthew's post and my featured line-up :

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveMatthew View Post
Ottawa gets a legitimate top line player to replace Heatley this season, plus another top nine forward who's more than capable of being a big shot on the powerplay point, something they desperately need. And with the cap space, they'll have a good shot of re-signing Frolov after this year, along with Volchenkov (apparently they're the best of friends).

I think it works out pretty well for all teams involved.
Agree on that. Cap space to keep Volchenkov long-term is a big + too. Kinda cool that he is good friend with Frolov.

Foligno-Spezza-Alfredsson (90-100 goals)
Frolov-Stoll-Kovalev (70-80 goals)
Kelly-Fisher-Neil (45 goals)
Ruutu-Winchester-Shannon (25 goals)

I’d be pretty happy with this forward group


Quote:
Originally Posted by Davidhye View Post
You think Heatley - Spezza - Alfredsson is the best line in the game?
Well, they were recognized to be league-wide in 05-06 and 06-07. They are also the most productive line (3 players on the same team) since the lock-out.

How long have you been watching hockey? I remember the 05-06 season where Sens were destroying teams 10-4 and 6-1. They scored 314 goals that year.

Spezza : 19 goals 71 assists 90 pts in 68 games
Alfredsson : 43 goals 60 assists 103 pts in 77 games
Heatley : 50 goals 53 assists 103 pts in 82 games

Totals : 112 goals, 184 assists, 296 points in 227 games... It's like having 3 guys that score 40 goals and add 66 assists on the same line... Can you say impressive?


Last edited by Xspyrit: 09-09-2009 at 11:08 PM.
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Old
09-09-2009, 11:05 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
Sharks get worse as a team now and in the future with this trade. The Kings have no reason to do this since their top six is pretty much set. I don't think Murray would think this is enough for the Sens.
So everyone feels a little let down. Sounds like a win, win, win to me.

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Old
09-09-2009, 11:07 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Mr.Bridge View Post
Because San Jose's defence needs more crippling. Sure thing.

In the immortal words of Bruce Willis to Reginald Vel Johnson....

"Welcome to the party, pal!"
I agree. I can't see SJ giving up any more d-men. That said something else needs to head to LA imo and it'll probably end up being a draft pick...SJ's 3rd rounder maybe??

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Old
09-09-2009, 11:08 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Vaasa View Post
Have you not read a single Heatley to SJ thread this offseason? Sharks fans have been saying that it's not about skill, it's about cost. And a minority of us don't want Heatley because of his attitude. But This trade would not be Heatley for Marleau straight up, even if that is what Murray would take. The Sharks would then have to clear about another $1 million in cap space just to fit Heatley. But then they also need more cap space to replace the player they just moved to fit Heatley in. And then rather than having almost $20 million coming off payroll this coming summer to re-sign Pavelski, Setoguchi, Joslin, Moore, possibly Nabby and Marleau, AND deal with a declining cap; the Sharks now have $7.5 mil tied up in Heatley, which will likely cost them one of their good young players on top of what they paid for Heatley, and on top of whoever they had to move to fit Heatley into the roster.

The Sharks depth sucks as it is. Adding Heatley is a train wreck to the team now and for the rest of contract. And yes, I personally think he's a locker room poison waiting to happen, and wouldn't want him on my team even if he came for free.
Its amazing how many times you have to explain this ****, and people still can't seem to grasp the fact that a trade involving players with multi-year contracts affects the team down the road, and can indirectly result in said team being forced to move other players as a consequence of said trade.

Even if the Sharks acquired Heatley for a bag of **** tomorrow, we would then be forced to move 1-2 of our young, core players (i.e. Setoguchi, Pavelski, Michalek, Clowe, etc. etc. etc.) due to Heatley's large, multi-year contract. So it would cost us those young players, plus the bag of ****.

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Old
09-09-2009, 11:11 PM
  #62
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I like Dany but I'd rather keep Marleau and have him walk at the end of the year ...

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Old
09-09-2009, 11:12 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
Well, they were recognized to be league-wide in 05-06 and 06-07.
But they haven't in the last two. Don't get me wrong, it is a great line but I can't make myself call it "the best". Since the lockout, it's a different story; but then again, since the lockout Thornton > Ovechkin, so that's why I am looking at the last couple.

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Old
09-09-2009, 11:14 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Winky View Post
Its amazing how many times you have to explain this ****, and people still can't seem to grasp the fact that a trade involving players with multi-year contracts affects the team down the road, and can indirectly result in said team being forced to move other players as a consequence of said trade.

Even if the Sharks acquired Heatley for a bag of **** tomorrow, we would then be forced to move 1-2 of our young, core players (i.e. Setoguchi, Pavelski, Michalek, Clowe, etc. etc. etc.) due to Heatley's large, multi-year contract. So it would cost us those young players, plus the bag of ****.
And it continues to amaze me that fans don't want to risk losing 1 or 2 good, but certainly not great, players to bring in a legitimate top offensive forward like Heatley.

It's like me saying, "well gee... I'd love to have Joe Thornton on my team. He's one of the best playmakers in the league. But if I brought in his contract, I might not be able to re-sign Nick Foligno and Chris Campoli... I can't do it."

That's ridiculous. **** Foligno and Campoli. I can replace them pretty easily down the line with someone else I draft. A guy like Thornton doesn't become available very often.

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Old
09-09-2009, 11:20 PM
  #65
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And it continues to amaze me that fans don't want to risk losing 1 or 2 good, but certainly not great, players to bring in a legitimate top offensive forward like Heatley.

It's like me saying, "well gee... I'd love to have Joe Thornton on my team. He's one of the best playmakers in the league. But if I brought in his contract, I might not be able to re-sign Nick Foligno and Chris Campoli... I can't do it."

That's ridiculous. **** Foligno and Campoli. I can replace them pretty easily down the line with someone else I draft. A guy like Thornton doesn't become available very often.
Building teams is more than just assembling as many highly talented players that you can get your hands on. Also, there's more to winning hockey games than scoring goals. And in reality, Patrick Marleau is needed on this team more than Dany Heatley and that's not just my opinion.

You can't win in this sport by getting all the Dany Heatleys and Joe Thorntons you can get your hands on. It's also patently absurd to compare Nick Foligno and Chris Campoli to Devin Setoguchi and Joe Pavelski.

The Sharks lose year in and year out because they lack depth. Adding Dany Heatley will yet again cost them depth. Stop being so short-sighted and understand that Dany Heatley to the Sharks will make them worse.

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Old
09-09-2009, 11:21 PM
  #66
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I judge by the last season. We're talking about present time, aren't we?
Classic example of HF's "what have you done for me lately mentality"

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Originally Posted by Davidhye View Post
But they haven't in the last two. Don't get me wrong, it is a great line but I can't make myself call it "the best". Since the lockout, it's a different story; but then again, since the lockout Thornton > Ovechkin, so that's why I am looking at the last couple.
You do realize there was more to the logic of the other guys argument than stats. Nobody would have argued that the Pizza Line wasn't one of the best, if not the best for several years. You won't find many people who would pick Thornton over Ovechkin.

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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
Building teams is more than just assembling as many highly talented players that you can get your hands on. Also, there's more to winning hockey games than scoring goals. And in reality, Patrick Marleau is needed on this team more than Dany Heatley and that's not just my opinion.

You can't win in this sport by getting all the Dany Heatleys and Joe Thorntons you can get your hands on. It's also patently absurd to compare Nick Foligno and Chris Campoli to Devin Setoguchi and Joe Pavelski.

The Sharks lose year in and year out because they lack depth. Adding Dany Heatley will yet again cost them depth. Stop being so short-sighted and understand that Dany Heatley to the Sharks will make them worse.
Gotta agree with you on this one.

Pavelski and Setoguchi>>>>>> Foligno and Campoli and I'm a Sens fan. Both Campoli and Foligno are great, but not on the same level as the aforementioned.

Edit: How the hell is my multiquote post turned into three?


Last edited by Flames Fanatic: 09-09-2009 at 11:49 PM.
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Old
09-09-2009, 11:25 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Flames Fanatic View Post
You do realize there was more to the logic of the other guys argument than stats. Nobody would have argued that the Pizza Line wasn't one of the best, if not the best for several years. You won't find many people who would pick Thorton over Ovechkin.
Its Thornton ...

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Old
09-09-2009, 11:31 PM
  #68
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Its Thornton ...
Thanks grammar police.......

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Old
09-09-2009, 11:32 PM
  #69
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Thanks grammar police.......
Well, technically that's spelling, not grammar, but yeah ...

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Old
09-09-2009, 11:34 PM
  #70
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Well, technically that's spelling, not grammar, but yeah ...
And to think I would get in trouble if I said what I really want to.

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Old
09-09-2009, 11:35 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Flames Fanatic View Post
Classic example of HF's "what have you done for me lately mentality"
Should I bring up Cheechoo?

What do you guys from me? They are not the best line right now and that's what I'm saying. Stop your arguments, I am not trying to make you change your minds.

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Old
09-09-2009, 11:39 PM
  #72
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And to think I would get in trouble if I said what I really want to.
You and me both, Mugabe, you and me both ...

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Old
09-09-2009, 11:42 PM
  #73
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Should I bring up Cheechoo?

What do you guys from me? They are not the best line right now and that's what I'm saying. Stop your arguments, I am not trying to make you change your minds.
Seriously lol.

When it serves their purpose to point out play of 2 years ago means nothing (Cheechoo) they do. When it's Heatley it's totally relevant.

The point is we have a super-star (Thornton) We have a nearly super-star (Boyle) we have several stars (Blake, Marleau) and we have some very good young-stars (Seto, Pavelski, Vlasic, Patrecki).

We've hedged our bets. Bringing in Heatley is not a tweak, it is a long term fire-sale. He's a problem player with serious attitude issues. If Ovechkin had his issues I wouldn't trade him for Marleau either. Attitude can destroy a whole team, and it takes a whole team to win, even with Danny Heatley's skills.

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Old
09-09-2009, 11:43 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Davidhye View Post
But they haven't in the last two. Don't get me wrong, it is a great line but I can't make myself call it "the best". Since the lockout, it's a different story; but then again, since the lockout Thornton > Ovechkin, so that's why I am looking at the last couple.
07-08

Alfredsson : 40 goals 49 assists 89 pts in 70 games
Spezza : 34 goals 58 assists 92 pts in 76 games
Heatley : 41 goals 41 assists 82 pts in 71 games

Total = 115 goals, 148 assists, 263 pts in 217 games

Average : 43 goals, 56 assists, 99 points/player/82 games played

Not too shabby...

08-09

Alfredsson : 24 goals 50 assists 74 pts in 79 games
Spezza : 32 goals 41 assists 73 pts in 82 games
Heatley : 39 goals 33 assists 72 pts in 82 games

Total = 95 goals, 124 assists, 219 points in 243 games

Average : 32 goals, 42 assists, 74 points/player/82 games played

Big drop-off (ineffective system) but still not bad

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Old
09-09-2009, 11:45 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Bridge View Post
Because San Jose's defence needs more crippling. Sure thing.

In the immortal words of Bruce Willis to Reginald Vel Johnson....

"Welcome to the party, pal!"
To be honest the Kings don't need another defenseman but SJ would need to clear salary and L.A. would want another player back in this deal.

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