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Old
09-10-2009, 04:08 PM
  #26
Jay Cee
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Originally Posted by Canucker View Post
I don't think you'll get an argument out of most fans that the players laid an egg throughout the 2nd round but a lot can be attributed to coaching as well. Game 4 for instance...how do you sit back on a 1 goal lead for 2 periods? How do you explain how they looked so unprepared to play in game 6? How do you explain the lack of discipline throughout the year and especially in the playoffs...even the 1st round would have been a LOT closer if we didn't get some excellent penalty killing and goaltending. The coach is supposed to be sure the team is properly motivated and prepared to play and AV failed just as much or more than the players did.
Certainly, and I`m not just being an apologist for AV. I think that the blame can be spread around any time you lose. I just find for some reason when things are good, AV doesnt get proportional credit for when they are bad. I guess it is this mentality that gets coaches fired for no good reason.

On the series though, here`s food for thought. Who is to say that the Canucks would have even been close at the end of the game had they not trapped their lead? The rest of the series, and indeed game shows it was no guarantee by any means. Maybe AV trapped because Chicago had the Canucks d rattled and wanted to try and put them in a position of comfort and possibly come out confident at the end of the day? Also, is Quenneville a super genius in comparison when he tried and mostly failed to score when he was behind, and then finally did?

I am not sure what you mean at all about `preparation`for game 6, define the word. I mean for all we know AV gave the speech of the year in the NHL in the dressing room, had the team extremely well prepared, and they just played like crap. They certainly didn`t give up game 6 and battled back.

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09-10-2009, 04:19 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Canucker View Post
Game 4 for instance...how do you sit back on a 1 goal lead for 2 periods?
The strategy in game 4 was great. They jumped on a turnover Rypien/Hordichuk and otherwise played great defensively all night. A Luongo/Mitchell gaffe and it's over.

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Originally Posted by Canucker View Post
How do you explain how they looked so unprepared to play in game 6?
They outshot Chicago 38-30. Luongo has his worse game of his life. How can you fault the coach.

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Originally Posted by Canucker View Post
How do you explain the lack of discipline throughout the year and especially in the playoffs...even the 1st round would have been a LOT closer if we didn't get some excellent penalty killing and goaltending. The coach is supposed to be sure the team is properly motivated and prepared to play and AV failed just as much or more than the players did.
Oh please. You're reaching here. The Canucks WON the division and SWEPT the first round. They were missing their starting goalie, best player, and captain for 1/3 of the season.

Don't let Tony Gallagher's BS rub off on you. AV is a good coach and deserves this extension.

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09-10-2009, 04:22 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Timmer44 View Post
The strategy in game 4 was great. They jumped on a turnover Rypien/Hordichuk and otherwise played great defensively all night. A Luongo/Mitchell gaffe and it's over.


They outshot Chicago 38-30. Luongo has his worse game of his life. How can you fault the coach.


Oh please. You're reaching here. The Canucks WON the division and SWEPT the first round. They were missing their starting goalie, best player, and captain for 1/3 of the season.

Don't let Tony Gallagher's BS rub off on you. AV is a good coach and deserves this extension.
and yet failed to motivate the best canucks team in a while to beat the young and inexperience chicago blackhawks. Stop with the excuse already.

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Old
09-10-2009, 04:23 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Pyatt4God View Post
Certainly, and I`m not just being an apologist for AV. I think that the blame can be spread around any time you lose. I just find for some reason when things are good, AV doesnt get proportional credit for when they are bad. I guess it is this mentality that gets coaches fired for no good reason.

On the series though, here`s food for thought. Who is to say that the Canucks would have even been close at the end of the game had they not trapped their lead? The rest of the series, and indeed game shows it was no guarantee by any means. Maybe AV trapped because Chicago had the Canucks d rattled and wanted to try and put them in a position of comfort and possibly come out confident at the end of the day? Also, is Quenneville a super genius in comparison when he tried and mostly failed to score when he was behind, and then finally did?

I am not sure what you mean at all about `preparation`for game 6, define the word. I mean for all we know AV gave the speech of the year in the NHL in the dressing room, had the team extremely well prepared, and they just played like crap. They certainly didn`t give up game 6 and battled back.
You make some good points and I agree with pretty much all of it. I don't hate AV and think he's done a lot of good here but there is some areas that just drive me nuts. I liken it to some peoples view on the Sedins, people know they are good players but don't like their style of play. I like AV but dislike some areas of his coaching. I don't hate the fact he's re-signing I just wish we could have held off until X-mas or just signed him to a year...possibly two. In the end it doesn't really affect anything, its not like his salary goes against the cap or anything.

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Old
09-10-2009, 04:25 PM
  #30
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I think you extend AV even if you're not sure - this doesn't count against the cap. If he sucks this year and loses the room, you can bet that Gillis and Acquilini aren't going to worry for more than a minute about this contract before they fire him.

If you don't extend him, he's a lame duck coach and that's not going to work.

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Old
09-10-2009, 04:25 PM
  #31
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I am not sure what you mean at all about `preparation`for game 6, define the word. I mean for all we know AV gave the speech of the year in the NHL in the dressing room, had the team extremely well prepared, and they just played like crap. They certainly didn`t give up game 6 and battled back.
People always seem to misconstrue what it means for the coach to "prepare his team to play." It doesn't mean he needs to give amazing pre-game speeches that fire the team up. It's an 82 game season plus playoffs, how many of those speeches could he possibly have? The players are professional athletes, I'm pretty sure they can motivate themselves by now.

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09-10-2009, 04:26 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Vancouver_2010 View Post
and yet failed to motivate the best canucks team in a while to beat the young and inexperience chicago blackhawks. Stop with the excuse already.
I don't see how you can put alot of the blame on AV for the second round loss... that was completely on Roberto Luongo

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09-10-2009, 04:28 PM
  #33
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and yet failed to motivate the best canucks team in a while to beat the young and inexperience chicago blackhawks. Stop with the excuse already.
The picture beneath your name is fitting...

Should he have yanked Louie in game 6? The Canucks looked plenty motivated coming back and taking the lead in the third.

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Old
09-10-2009, 04:31 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Timmer44 View Post
The strategy in game 4 was great. They jumped on a turnover Rypien/Hordichuk and otherwise played great defensively all night. A Luongo/Mitchell gaffe and it's over.


They outshot Chicago 38-30. Luongo has his worse game of his life. How can you fault the coach.


Oh please. You're reaching here. The Canucks WON the division and SWEPT the first round. They were missing their starting goalie, best player, and captain for 1/3 of the season.

Don't let Tony Gallagher's BS rub off on you. AV is a good coach and deserves this extension.
Reaching? Give me a break, this team constantly takes stupid, undisciplined penalties and if you don't see it you are as blind as an NHL ref. Sure they WON the division, and yes they SWEPT the first round but it doesn't change the fact they are an undisciplined team for the most part.

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Old
09-10-2009, 04:31 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Macke View Post
I don't see how you can put alot of the blame on AV for the second round loss... that was completely on Roberto Luongo
And a banged up D.

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Old
09-10-2009, 04:37 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Macke View Post
I don't see how you can put alot of the blame on AV for the second round loss... that was completely on Roberto Luongo
The second round wasn't all Luongo's fault, everyone was to blame. Sure he played like crap in game 6 but even if they won game 6 it wouldn't have guaranteed them a win in game 7, especially the way they were playing.

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Old
09-10-2009, 04:39 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Pascha View Post
I think you extend AV even if you're not sure - this doesn't count against the cap. If he sucks this year and loses the room, you can bet that Gillis and Acquilini aren't going to worry for more than a minute about this contract before they fire him.

If you don't extend him, he's a lame duck coach and that's not going to work.
Yup.

I'm a bit suprised it's a 3-year deal, but of course he was going to get at least a 2-year extension. That's just how it works. Aquilini has shown he's more than willing to eat contracts, though, and if this team is under-achieving badly at the Olympic break this year, he'll still be anything but safe.

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Old
09-10-2009, 04:40 PM
  #38
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Do we really need another thread for this?

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Old
09-10-2009, 04:43 PM
  #39
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The second round wasn't all Luongo's fault, everyone was to blame. Sure he played like crap in game 6 but even if they won game 6 it wouldn't have guaranteed them a win in game 7, especially the way they were playing.
The 2nd round loss falls mainly on Luongo, and also on our other supposed 'reliable character veteran players' (Mitchell, Kesler especially) who struggled badly during that series and made a series of terrible errors.

It was such a strange/heartbreaking loss because our worst/most under-achieving players in that series were the guys you would have least expected it from. Luongo looking like Cloutier, Mitchell dreadful in his own zone, Kesler turning the puck over all over the place and doing nothing offensively. Burrows awful as well, but at least he was injured and has something of an excuse.

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Old
09-10-2009, 04:50 PM
  #40
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The injuries and depth on defence seems to be what Gillis attributes the problems against Chicago.

He seems pretty clear he has learned from that with his statement he wants at least 8 NHL Dmen available this season.

Luongo also picked the wrong game to have what I view as his worst performance of the season.
I think it was his worst performance as a Canuck. I've said it before but I felt like Luongo cost us game 6 but our immobile defense cost us the series. So glad to see Gillis addressing the need without costing the team. I still think he has one more move up his sleeve before the season starts.

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Old
09-10-2009, 04:57 PM
  #41
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Do we really need another thread for this?
Yes.

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Old
09-10-2009, 04:57 PM
  #42
Jay Cee
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Originally Posted by hlrsr View Post
People always seem to misconstrue what it means for the coach to "prepare his team to play." It doesn't mean he needs to give amazing pre-game speeches that fire the team up. It's an 82 game season plus playoffs, how many of those speeches could he possibly have? The players are professional athletes, I'm pretty sure they can motivate themselves by now.
Sure, that's why I wondered what he meant by it. I don't really think "prepartion" really means a whole lot. It is a buzz word, one that Gillis uses a lot.

It goes without saying any NHL coach and indeed players get plenty of time in a 7 game series to break down where they are going wrong and trying to fix it. It is up to both, and we will never know where the balance of fault lies. I will be the first one to say that the fluffy idealized notions of preparation and leadership, and blah blah blah is more fiction than fact. This isn't "Any Given Sunday" the coach or the guys in the room do not wave their magic wand and compel a team to victory.

A coach is a tactician, more like a general than a cult leader. A captain or leader on the team does so on the ice and leads by example. He doesn't tell you how to play better, he shows you how. He makes you want to give it all for the game like he does and shows you results will follow.

IMHO

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Old
09-10-2009, 05:02 PM
  #43
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A coach is a tactician, more like a general than a cult leader.
"It's (the Jacques Lemaire coached Wild) not a hockey team. It's a cult." - Brian Burke - April 23 2003.

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09-10-2009, 05:07 PM
  #44
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Yup.

I'm a bit suprised it's a 3-year deal, but of course he was going to get at least a 2-year extension. That's just how it works. Aquilini has shown he's more than willing to eat contracts, though, and if this team is under-achieving badly at the Olympic break this year, he'll still be anything but safe.
I don't think Aquilini is taking much of a risk here... they only have to eat his contract if he's fired and can't find another job, which given his resume now, I don't think is very likely.

Even if he's fired, a coach who's coming off 2 division wins in 3 years on teams that have been criticized for lacking overall talent, will get picked up by another team. There will always be some jobs open every year, and he's done enough now, IMO, that he won't have to sit on the sidelines too long.

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Old
09-10-2009, 05:13 PM
  #45
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While Quinn was here, he had a reputation of not liking to use young players or rookies. Players like Raymond, Hansen, Edler & Shirokov would spend more time on the bench then with AV and Hodgson would almost certainly be going back to junior. Quinn was very loyal to the players he felt had proven their right to be on the team & that meant keeping veterans around long past their prime.
to be fair, that was also a long time ago... it looks to me like he's acknowledged that to be a criticism of his, and has tried to change that opinion. He did coach the WJC and the W-U18 recently, and did very well working with young players in those tournaments. The players had nothing but great things to say about Quinn and both teams were champions.

Obviously it's not the NHL and we'll have to wait and see how he handles the young Oilers vs. the vets there... but for a guy who's been criticized about how he deals with young players in the past, the best thing he could have done was have that success with the juniors, and prove he could work well with young kids. We'll see if that translates to the NHL, but I believe, like players, coaches can evolve as well.

Not that I'm suggesting I'd rather have him than AV... just that I don't think it's fair to write him off based on his coaching style from years ago that saw him pushed out of the league.

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Old
09-10-2009, 05:25 PM
  #46
Jay Cee
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Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
"It's (the Jacques Lemaire coached Wild) not a hockey team. It's a cult." - Brian Burke - April 23 2003.
There are exceptions of course

Ron Wilson who is IMO a top 10 coach in the NHL is famous for his "firey" speeches. I think though, if I was a player on this team, it would more give me a smile from its ridiculousness and take the edge off a bit than compel me to do better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYkeV0TOgEU

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Old
09-10-2009, 05:32 PM
  #47
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"It's (the Jacques Lemaire coached Wild) not a hockey team. It's a cult." - Brian Burke - April 23 2003.
You realize AV admires Lemaire, don't you?

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09-10-2009, 05:35 PM
  #48
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You realize AV admires Lemaire, don't you?
News to me.

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09-10-2009, 05:48 PM
  #49
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You realize AV admires Lemaire, don't you?
Considering Lemaire got his first NHL coaching job just three years before AV started coaching I find that doubtful. Lemaire also didn't become a prominent coach until 1993 when he was hired by NJ, and by that time AV was already an assistant in Ottawa.

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Old
09-10-2009, 06:01 PM
  #50
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Yes.
Why? Doesn't this pretty much cover it?

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=678644

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