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Marleau now a King?

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09-10-2009, 09:12 PM
  #101
JDM
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I have to say, this all screams of the same situation as O'Sullivan. The deal is almost done, it gets leaked, then refuted, then immediately and adamantly put down as false. Dean doesn't bother responding to things that are just rumors, he doesn't have time to do that.

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09-10-2009, 09:13 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Captain Ron View Post
That would be weird to have 2 "done deals" for the Kings in the same off season end up being false.
Neither were done deals... that was the problem. When news agencies are using rumors as sources - we've got problems. That's what's happening. This "complete bull" even wound up on NHL.com. Sad.

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09-10-2009, 09:14 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by JDM View Post
I have to say, this all screams of the same situation as O'Sullivan. The deal is almost done, it gets leaked, then refuted, then immediately and adamantly put down as false. Dean doesn't bother responding to things that are just rumors, he doesn't have time to do that.
So you're saying we have to include another 2nd rounder because of the leak?

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09-10-2009, 09:15 PM
  #104
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Quote:
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So you're saying we have to include another 2nd rounder because of the leak?
lol...

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Old
09-10-2009, 09:17 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by JDM View Post
I agree guys. I don't like the trade. I love Marleau, but I don't think this makes us a better team.

I was just refuting the point that it causes us to lose young players down the line. That's the point Telos and Ron were making and the one that got me looking like I was supporting the trade when in fact I wasn't, I was just refuting a reason for disliking it.
Well if that was the point you were making then it is flawed, Because Marleau will more than likely want $6 million+ to stay in LA. That means that $19 million of the Kings cap would be for 3 players (Kopitar, Marleau and Smyth).

Now if you put either Purcell or Moller in the top 6 they will probably want a significant raise when their contract is up (Purcell next year or Moller in two years). Not to mention players like Quick, Doughty, Johnson and Bernier will probably be wanting decent raises in the next few years.

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09-10-2009, 09:17 PM
  #106
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that's what Rich is reporting.

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09-10-2009, 09:17 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by TonySCV View Post
"Complete bull." - Dean Lombardi on the trade rumor.

- T
Haha No danger of a mixed message there.

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Old
09-10-2009, 09:18 PM
  #108
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Haha No danger of a mixed message there.
Unless Dean is a huge fan of beef.

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09-10-2009, 09:19 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Ron View Post
Well if that was the point you were making then it is flawed, Because Marleau will more than likely want $6 million+ to stay in LA. That means that $19 million of the Kings cap would be for 3 players (Kopitar, Marleau and Smyth).

Now if you put either Purcell or Moller in the top 6 they will probably want a significant raise when their contract is up (Purcell next year or Moller in two years). Not to mention players like Quick, Doughty, Johnson and Bernier will probably be wanting decent raises in the next few years.
What makes you so sure of that? Personally, I think we can re-sign Marleau for 5.25-6 mil.

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Old
09-10-2009, 09:19 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Captain Ron View Post
Well if that was the point you were making then it is flawed, Because Marleau will more than likely want $6 million+ to stay in LA. That means that $19 million of the Kings cap would be for 3 players (Kopitar, Marleau and Smyth).

Now if you put either Purcell or Moller in the top 6 they will probably want a significant raise when their contract is up (Purcell next year or Moller in two years). Not to mention players like Quick, Doughty, Johnson and Bernier will probably be wanting decent raises in the next few years.
Which is why the deal doesn't make sense.

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Old
09-10-2009, 09:20 PM
  #111
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Haha No danger of a mixed message there.
Until you remember what he said that about the JW/Sully trade.

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Old
09-10-2009, 09:21 PM
  #112
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So San Jose essentially would trade Marleau for Heatly? That would be a steal.

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09-10-2009, 09:21 PM
  #113
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I see it as upgrading a more important position while dumping a redundant, concussion prone 3rd liner and UFA winger. I don't think it's as bad as people make it out to be but doubtful it happens.

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09-10-2009, 09:22 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
So San Jose essentially would trade Marleau for Heatly? That would be a steal.
Yeah that bothers me. Alot.

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Old
09-10-2009, 09:22 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDM View Post
Just like when Lombardi told Hammond that the O'Sullivan for Williams deal was bull.
As much as I still don't like O'Sullivan and a 2nd for Williams, I see the logic behind it.

However I don't see any logic behind Frolov and Stoll for Heatley and Heatley for Marleau. Nor do I see any logic behind Johnson and a 1st for Pronger.

Regardless of the fact that DL lied to Rich Hammond to get the deal done, at least that deal made sense.

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Old
09-10-2009, 09:22 PM
  #116
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I'd take Marleau for Frolov and dumping Stoll's deal. Stoll just isn't that good of a hockey player especially given his deal for 3 more years. Would he even pass a physical right now? Marleau for Frolov is even to me, Marleau is 2 years older but both are UFA's after the season. Marleau had a much better season last year. His 5 short handed goals stand out to me given what the Kings have been doing with players like Scuderi and Greene on defense. Marleau's 251 shots compared to 176 also get my interest since the Kings are pressed for goals. Havign a bunch of power forwards on your team means you need a lot of shots, the fancy stuff won't work. And most of all Marleau shows up with his lunch pail EVERY GAME. A leader, a former captain, 10 game winning goals last season-a definite Terry Murray type of player whereas Frolov just is not. And don't get me wrong, with Frolov's puck possession skills he fits into TM's system as well but the mental lapses and 2 shots on goal a game don't cut it from your 1st line LW. Bottom line is right now Patrick Marleau fits into what the Kings have been trying to do for some time now. They are getting hard nosed, gritty, leaders in the locker room and Frolov just doesn't fit into that mold as well as Marleau. I'd like to see an extension before the deal is done though, that 1 year and bolt worries me more than anything else in this proposed deal.

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Old
09-10-2009, 09:23 PM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Ron View Post
Well if that was the point you were making then it is flawed, Because Marleau will more than likely want $6 million+ to stay in LA. That means that $19 million of the Kings cap would be for 3 players (Kopitar, Marleau and Smyth).

Now if you put either Purcell or Moller in the top 6 they will probably want a significant raise when their contract is up (Purcell next year or Moller in two years). Not to mention players like Quick, Doughty, Johnson and Bernier will probably be wanting decent raises in the next few years.
Their raises (Moller and Purcell) won't be THAT significant. And again, you are assuming Marleau commands 6+ mill on his next contract. I think he could be had for 5, which is what I was willing to give Fro, so no difference there.

If anything, that saves Stoll's cap space for the young players you mention.

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Old
09-10-2009, 09:24 PM
  #118
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This trade would create a huge hole in the top 6 again for the Kings. This deal would only happen towards the end of training camp if Moller/Purcell show they can handle top 6 duty in the NHL.

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09-10-2009, 09:24 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
I'd take Marleau for Frolov and dumping Stoll's deal. Stoll just isn't that good of a hockey player especially given his deal for 3 more years. Would he even pass a physical right now? Marleau for Frolov is even to me, Marleau is 2 years older but both are UFA's after the season. Marleau had a much better season last year. His 5 short handed goals stand out to me given what the Kings have been doing with players like Scuderi and Greene on defense. Marleau's 251 shots compared to 176 also get my interest since the Kings are pressed for goals. Havign a bunch of power forwards on your team means you need a lot of shots, the fancy stuff won't work. And most of all Marleau shows up with his lunch pail EVERY GAME. A leader, a former captain, 10 game winning goals last season-a definite Terry Murray type of player whereas Frolov just is not. And don't get me wrong, with Frolov's puck possession skills he fits into TM's system as well but the mental lapses and 2 shots on goal a game don't cut it from your 1st line LW. Bottom line is right now Patrick Marleau fits into what the Kings have been trying to do for some time now. They are getting hard nosed, gritty, leaders in the locker room and Frolov just doesn't fit into that mold as well as Marleau. I'd like to see an extension before the deal is done though, that 1 year and bolt worries me more than anything else in this proposed deal.
This

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Old
09-10-2009, 09:24 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by KingsCast View Post
As much as I still don't like O'Sullivan and a 2nd for Williams, I see the logic behind it.

However I don't see any logic behind Frolov and Stoll for Heatley and Heatley for Marleau. Nor do I see any logic behind Johnson and a 1st for Pronger.

Regardless of the fact that DL lied to Rich Hammond to get the deal done, at least that deal made sense.
Agreed. Good point.

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Old
09-10-2009, 09:28 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Captain Ron View Post
Unless Dean is a huge fan of beef.
No Rich was mistaken, he was giving Rich his description of Marleau.

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Old
09-10-2009, 09:30 PM
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingsCast View Post
As much as I still don't like O'Sullivan and a 2nd for Williams, I see the logic behind it.

However I don't see any logic behind Frolov and Stoll for Heatley and Heatley for Marleau. Nor do I see any logic behind Johnson and a 1st for Pronger.

Regardless of the fact that DL lied to Rich Hammond to get the deal done, at least that deal made sense.
You are speaking my language.

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Old
09-10-2009, 09:31 PM
  #123
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My fuming has started to settle to a steady rage. Now I'm just waiting for the **** storm that will be Zad.

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Old
09-10-2009, 09:31 PM
  #124
Telos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDM View Post
My fuming has started to settle to a steady rage. Now I'm just waiting for the **** storm that will be Zad.
I too have been looking for clouds.

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Old
09-10-2009, 09:32 PM
  #125
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I am all for this deal. Kopitar, Marleau, Handzus up the middle is a much stornger team then Kopitar, Stoll, Handzus. Frolov's goal production will be replaced by Marleau. Stoll's will be replaced by Purcell or Moller.

Now lets look down the line. Marleau resigns for 3 years 18 million. That gives Schenn 4 years to develop and fill the 2nd line center. As it looks, Lewis will have the 4th line center to lose. Then when Handzus's contract is up he fills the 3rd line center.

2010-2011 possible cap numbers.
Marleau = 6 million 10-11
Frolov/Stoll = 7.5 - 8.5 million 10-11

The way DL works the Cap I am not the least worried about getting the young guys resigned.

I also wouldn't be suprised if Simmonds takes a run at the 2nd line wing postion if Frolov goes. He played his best hockey at the end of the season and showed some offense.

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