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The All-Time AAA11 Thread (sign-up, roster post, picks, etc)

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Old
09-10-2009, 10:10 PM
  #351
Hedberg
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Quote:
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One of the questions that the 1972 Summit researchers are constantly asking is whether the coaching changes and absence of several world-class players affected the performance of the Soviets in the 1972 Summit Series. Obviously, the Olympic Champions Igor Romishevsky, Vitaly Davydov and, especially, Anatoly Firsov could have been a powerful addition to the Soviet team in the 1972 Summit. The reasons they didn't play in the Series go way beyond the subject matter of this section of the Impressions.
So why was Igor Romishevsky left off the team?

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09-10-2009, 10:23 PM
  #352
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So why was Igor Romishevsky left off the team?
He didn't play for the same reason Davydov and Firsov didn't.

A political reason, of sorts. They protested the outing of Tarasov as coach.

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09-10-2009, 11:41 PM
  #353
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It seems that we may have a battle for the 6th spot on the Dawson defense.

Bob Trapp & Igor Romishevsky: Two defensemen with three non-NHL all-star team selections. Quantifying them is quite difficult but the best way to truly determine their value would be to consider where these All-star team selections placed them among all defensemen worldwide.

Luckily there is not a ton of guesswork involved thanks to our knowledge that both players played in the 2nd-best league in the world at the time of their all-star selections, 80-90% as good as the NHL, at a time where little to no other players outside of their league and the NHL would challenge them.

Bob Trapp:

2nd team (WCHL 1922)
Trapp was behind Red Dutton and Joe Simpson for first team honours. Both HHOFers. No info exists as to who was regarded higher between Trapp and 2nd team Traub. In the NHL, Cameron, Cleghorn, Boucher, and Gerard were certainly better. A couple other are debatable. (Reise, Coutu, for example) Trapp was the 7th-10th-best defenseman in hockey.

1st team (WCHL 1923)
Trapp apparently made the 1st team along with Gardiner and Simpson - both HHOFers. No info exists as to who was regarded higher. In the NHL, Boucher, Cleghorn, Cameron, Gerard, and possibly Reise and Corbeau were better. Trapp was the 5th-9th-best defenseman in hockey.

1st team (WHL 1926)
Trapp made the 1st all-star team along with Eddie Shore. Shore was likely regarded higher. In the NHL, Day, Conacher, Clancy, Boucher, Hitchman, & Cleghorn were likely better. Leduc may have been. Trapp was the 8th-9th-best defenseman in hockey.

For these three seasons, Trapp was somewhere between the 5th and 10th-best defenseman in hockey.

Igor Romishevsky:

2nd team (USSR 1968)
Romishevsky was behind Davydov & Ragulin, and his partner on the 2nd team was Kuzkin. No info exists as to who was regarded higher. In the NHL, Orr, Horton, Tremblay, Neilson, Pilote, Green, laperriere, bergman, White, and possibly Van Impe, Howell, and McMahon were better. (going by all-star voting). Jan Suchy should also be mentioned. Romishevsky was 13th-17th-best defenseman in hockey this season.

2nd team (USSR 1969)
Romishevsky was behind Davydov & Ragulin, and his partner on the 2nd team was Kuzkin. No info exists as to who was regarded higher. In the NHL, Orr, Horton, Green, Harris, Arbour, Neilson, White, Tremblay, and probably Vadnais, Laperriere, and Baun were better. Jan Suchy should also be mentioned. Romishevsky was 13th-17th-best defenseman in hockey this season.

3rd team (USSR 1971)
Romishevsky was behind Lutchenko, Kuzkin, Davydov, and Tsygankov. His partner on the 3rd team was Ragulin. No info exists as to who was regarded higher. In the NHL, it is likely that all 15 of the defensemen in the top-15 in all-star voting were better this season, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on the bottom-3: Bergman, Roberts, Horton. Jan Suchy should also be mentioned. Romishevsky was the 18th-22nd-best defenseman this season.

In Romishevsky's 3 best seasons, he was between 13th and 22nd-best defenseman in hockey.

Trapp was a more significant player.

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09-10-2009, 11:46 PM
  #354
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Great analysis seventieslord.

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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
It seems that we may have a battle for the 6th spot on the Dawson defense.
They both might get in, 6/7.

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09-11-2009, 12:05 AM
  #355
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They both might get in, 6/7.
That seems like the best choice to me.
+1 to Romishevsky and Trapp


+1 to Erixon as well. I considered picking him, but his no offence scared me away. He'd be a great shut down guy for Dawson City though.

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09-11-2009, 04:38 AM
  #356
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come on Rzeznik and chaos!

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09-11-2009, 04:40 AM
  #357
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Leo Reise Sr., D: +1. An excellent skater and playmaker; was once 2nd in the NHL in assists. 4th, 6th, 7th in scoring by NHL defensemen, 7th twice in the WCHL (in the two years that it was a very competitive league after the end of the PCHA)
+1 Reise Sr. for the above reason.

+1 Pike was third line center on a NHL champion team, he won a Memorial Cup and two other league cups as a center. He was a center. Later in his career he became a defenseman and then left winger. Hence he is great at center but can play other positions so is a good spare.

+1 Nanne for reasons Vanislander said. He is a leader and a shot blocker. The team needs that.

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09-11-2009, 03:41 PM
  #358
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come on Rzeznik and chaos!
lol...like id be up at that time.

Ill do it today/night..you knew I wasnt going to be able too.

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09-11-2009, 06:01 PM
  #359
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Ill do it today/night..
great to hear

I knew from your PM that and why you're busy but still urged, hoping you'd sacrifice 15 minutes of sleep

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09-11-2009, 06:23 PM
  #360
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+1 Trapp. seventieslord makes a compelling case despite my reservations about the league he played in. The fact that all-time greats played with him does sway me a bit.

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09-11-2009, 07:21 PM
  #361
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+1 Brydson - Good two-way guy for the 3rd line.

+1 Jacques Martin - Definitely a solid choice for a coach of this team. Lot's of experience and success.

-1 John Tortorella - Not sold on him as a coach. That tampa team had alot of talent and that's my main reason for them winning. I dont think he had much to do with it at all. Intimidating..sure. Great coach..ehh..

+1 Stumpel - Over a PPG in the NHL. Decent in playoffs as well.

-1 Laperriere - Have enough guys who can play the same role as if not more effectively. Love the guy though.

+1 Moreau - Great 4th liner at this point. Should've been selected by one of us in the AAA...I was strongly considering him.

+1 Errol Thompson - Fast, great shot and played in every part of the ice.

+1 Ragnarsson - Really solid defenseman in the NHL and outside. Defenseman you can always count on.

+1 Trapp - Great argument by seventies.

-1 Tverdovsky - Not good enough in his own end and although he's good offensively..we can find better players to play that role.

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09-11-2009, 08:31 PM
  #362
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CUT FROM CAMP: Laperriere, Tverdovsky, coach Tortorella

Jozef Stumpel is a Nugget

The 6'3, 220 lbs pivot brings two exceptional years of experience as a passer and a decent .503 assists per game career average to Dawson City.




Dawson City Nuggets Training Camp

Progress Reports:

Jacques Martin, coach +1+1+1+1
Lloyd Percival, coach +1+1
Joel Quenneville, coach
Tom Renney, coach
Dave King, coach

Jude Drouin, C +1+1+1+1
Anatoli Semenov, C +1+1+1
Alexander Uvarov, C +1-1
Doru Tureanu, C
Nils Nilsson, C

Sergei Svetlov, RW +1+1+1+1
Mark Johnson, RW +1+1+1
Chris Nilan, RW +1+1+1
Billy Bell, RW/C +1+1+1
Glenn Brydson, RW +1+1+1
Cory Stillman, W +1-1
Joe Kocur, RW +1-1
Tommy Williams, RW -1

Real Chevrefils, LW +1+1+1+1
Jan Erixon, LW +1+1+1+1
Edmond Bouchard, LW/D +1+1+1
Alf Pike, LW/D +1+1+1
Ethan Moreau, LW +1+1+1
Ted Irvine, LW +1+1
Errol Thompson, LW +1+1
Sergei Yashin, LW +1-1+1
Rob Zamuner, LW +1
Ron Murphy, LW

Igor Stelnov, D +1+1+1+1
Sergei Starikov, D +1+1+1+1
Bob Trapp, D +1+1+1+1
Leo Reise Sr., D +1+1+1
Igor Romishevsky, D +1+1
Lou Nanne, RW/D -1+1+1
Howie Young, D +1
Marcus Ragnarsson, D +1-1+1
Igor Kravchuk, D -1
Gary Nylund, D -1

Dan Bouchard, G
Reggie Lemelin, G

Note: Drouin, Chevrefils, Erixon, Svetlov, Starikov, Stelnov, Trapp and coach Martin are on the verge of making the team, needing just one more positive scouting report. That last scout is AWOL. We'll just proceed as if he had nothing to report. This stage of voting is done.


Last edited by VanIslander: 09-11-2009 at 09:35 PM.
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Old
09-11-2009, 09:33 PM
  #363
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The Dawson City Nuggets Roster
(minimum +3):

Kelly Hrudey, G
Jose Theodore, G

Karel Gut, D
Bert Marshall, D
Igor Stelnov, D
Sergei Starikov, D
Bob Trapp, D
Leo Reise Sr., D

Sergei Svetlov, RW
Mark Johnson, RW
Chris Nilan, RW
Billy Bell, RW/C
Glenn Brydson, RW

Real Chevrefils, LW
Jan Erixon, LW
Edmond Bouchard, LW/D
Alf Pike, LW/D
Ethan Moreau, LW

Vyacheslav Anisin, C
Josef Stumpel, C
Jude Drouin, C
Anatoli Semenov, C

Jacques Martin, coach

That makes 23 Nuggets. There's room for one more with the team. Here are the four candidates for the final position with the team (each with +2).

Which of these four candidates should make the team? RANK THEM

Lloyd Percival, coach He would become the assistant coach.
Igor Romishevsky, D He would be the 7th dman
Ted Irvine, LW He would be a 6th LW
Errol Thompson, LW he would be a 6th LW


Last edited by VanIslander: 09-11-2009 at 10:08 PM.
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09-11-2009, 09:34 PM
  #364
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How I rank them (you go ahead and rank them too):

1ST - Thompson has 'blazing speed', 2nd Leaf to ever score 40 goals, is a scoring line LW the team needs (unless Stumpel can play LW)
2ND - Percival is a better assistant coach than head coach, ideal to add innovation
3RD - Romishevsky is the 7th dman, though Bouchard and Pike can play D
4TH - Irvine is a 3rd or 4th liner, hard working and physical, but the Nuggets have Erixon, Moreau and maybe Bouchard, Pike for the bottom-6 left side.

-----------

Line combination reasoning:

Quote:
Real Chevrefils - Anatoli Semenov - Sergei Svetlov
The obvious first line. Chevrefils is the only clear scoring line left winger and Svetlov is the clear best scoring line right winger and should play with the center he played with his whole career with Moscow Dynamo and on the national team.

Quote:
Igor Stelnov - Sergei Starikov
An obvious pairing, but I argue they should be the first pairing. Not only is there a natural five-5 unit chemistry going on with the top line but they have worldclass speed, discipline, training and success against the very best in the world in the 1980s.

This means Gut and Marshall would play no higher than the second pairing (Marshall might be a better third pairing guy), Gut because of the question mark posed by the fact he didn't compete against the NHLers in the 1950s so a level of competition question remains, and Marshall isn't a puck handler.

Quote:
Karel Gut - Leo Reise Sr.
Gut is captain material and Reise has the skating and playmaking to play a top-4 role.

Quote:
LW-C-Mark Johnson
Hard working and clutch scoring Johnson with no clear candidate to be his linemates imo. Anisin or Stumpel as 2nd line pivot? Anisin had a short career and was criticized for being easily pushed around whereas Stumpel has the size and strength but less speed. Can Stumpel play left wing? or should one of them play the fourth line or even be an extra skater? No clear answer.

Quote:
Jan Erixon - Jude Drouin - Glenn Brydson
Isn't the third line obvious? Brydson was known as 'two way' and a battler in the corners.

The fourth line could be anything:

If Stumpel can't play scoring line LW then either Stumpel or Anisin are fourth line candidates at center or else extra skater. Bell could center a shutdown fourth line. Left wing could be Moreau or one of Pike or Bouchard. Right wing could be Bell or Nilan, I thinking the latter because he is a proven championship physical force that the team needs. A guy like Anisin needs protection and Nilan will make the opposition think twice before cheapshotting finesse Nugget forwards. Plus he has cup experience.

Fourth line options seem to include:

Moreau/Bouchard/Pike - Bell/Stumpel/Anisin - Nilan/Bell

Quote:
Jacques Martin, coach
He is a defense-first defensive style coach so I expect he would want to ice Bell with Nilan on the fourth line, with Moreau competing with Bouchard and Pike for the defensive left wing position on the shutdown fourth line.

What do you think?


Last edited by VanIslander: 09-11-2009 at 10:07 PM.
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Old
09-11-2009, 10:07 PM
  #365
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I think it's obvious Percival should go. An assistant coach or guys who won't play at all...hmmm...

Anyway..

1. Percival
2. Thompson
3. Romishevsky
4. Irvine

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09-11-2009, 10:13 PM
  #366
VanIslander
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Originally Posted by chaosrevolver View Post
I think it's obvious Percival should go. An assistant coach or guys who won't play at all...hmmm...
A guy could play!

7th dmen always play in the regular season and dressing a seventh dman in the playoffs is common enough, plus obvious injuries and suspension coverage is needed at that important position.

And Thompson would provide the offense to play on a scoring line (not be an extra skater).

Just because a guy made the team early in the process doesn't indicate what role the guy will play in the line-up. Let's decide what's in the best interest of the team.

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09-11-2009, 10:29 PM
  #367
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-1 to Ethan Moreau. Dawson City has enough fourth line options and Moreau is simply a very average modern player. Bouchard and Pike both bring more versatility to the lineup.

Thompson had short-lived success, but I'd rather Dawson City have a guy with some ability to score goals compared to having 3 4th line LWs.

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09-11-2009, 10:33 PM
  #368
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the +1/-1 process is over

Moreau is a Nugget. Now, whether he starts or is an extra skater is an open question and hedberg you seem to be arguing that he be an extra skater, not the fourth line LW. You think Bouchard vs. Pike then for 4th line LW?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hedberg
Thompson had short-lived success, but I'd rather Dawson City have a guy with some ability to score goals compared to having 3 4th line LWs.
rank all four options! (easier to calculate later)

You seem to be ranking Thompson 1st. Who'd you put 2nd, 3rd out of the four candidates?

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09-11-2009, 10:36 PM
  #369
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the +1/-1 process is over

Moreau is a Nugget. Now, whether he starts or is an extra skater is an open question and hedberg you seem to be arguing that he be an extra skater, not the fourth line LW. You think Bouchard vs. Pike then for 4th line LW?
But having Moreau/Pike/Bouchard is completely unnecessary when two of Thompson/Romishevsky/Percival would be of greater aid to the team.

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09-11-2009, 10:38 PM
  #370
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You seem to be ranking Thompson 1st. Who'd you put 2nd, 3rd out of the four candidates?
1. Thompson (Romishevsky is a better player, but Thompson probably fills Dawson's need more)
2. Romishevsky
3. Percival
4. Irvine

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09-11-2009, 10:41 PM
  #371
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But having Moreau/Pike/Bouchard is completely unnecessary when two of Thompson/Romishevsky/Percival would be of greater aid to the team.
that's your opinion and i agree, and it could be a late training camp adjustment, but only if PARTICIPATION by GMs was sufficient to get a majority vote for the change

it took days to get to where we are in the process

let's put that out as an alternative but time is not on our side and i am skeptical about us getting the others (beside seventieslord) providing input TODAY!

one or two GMs are not to make the decisions here!! we need at least majority assent

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09-11-2009, 10:45 PM
  #372
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that's your opinion and i agree, and it could be a late training camp adjustment, but only if PARTICIPATION by GMs was sufficient to get a majority vote for the change

it took days to get to where we are in the process

let's put that out as an alternative but time is not on our side and i am skeptical about us getting the others (beside seventieslord) providing input TODAY!

one or two GMs are not to make the decisions here!! we need at least majority assent
I completely understand.
It's my fault for not commenting on Moreau sooner.

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09-12-2009, 12:41 AM
  #373
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Wow, what progress today! Good work, guys. And nice to see Trapp make the team.

My rankings are probably going to throw a wrench into the plans a bit because two of you had Thompson first, but...

1. Percival - would be an excellent assistant coach
2. Romishevsky - a true defenseman as the #7 would be a good idea.
3. Irvine - We already have a lot of what he brings; he gets lost in the numbers game
4. Thompson - One really good season with Darryl and Lanny; other than that, I'm not feelin' it.

I also tend to agree with Hedberg re: Moreau. I think Percival is our best bet but I'd rather not leave Romishevsky right out of it; a pure defenseman at #7 would look better. Then we'd have one forward in the top-12 who could also play defense, and another in the press box who can do either. (Bouchard/Pike)

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09-12-2009, 12:46 AM
  #374
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Ideal lines according to seventies:

Chevrefils-Svetlov-Semenov
Pike-Anisin-Johnson
Erixon-Drouin-Brysdon
Bouchard-Stumpel-Bell

Stelnov-Starikov
Gut-Marshall
Reise-Trapp

- I realize now that we need all our LWs in the lineup, so Nilan sits in waiting. Pike has some size to help out Anisin and isn'tcompletely inept offensively.

- Agree on the 3rd line.

- 4th line is just whoever is left. Some size, some defensive ability.

- I like Gut with marshall because Gut is a risk-taker and Marshall is likely the "steadiest" guy left. That leaves Reise and Trapp.

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09-12-2009, 12:50 AM
  #375
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If Thompson isn't signed then either

a) a defensive left winger would have to play the second line, which isn't a complete disaster, especially given the coach is so defensive oriented; or

b) Stumpel would have to move to left wing, a position I've seen him play, though not sure how long or how effective (but a team does what it can with what it has, makes adjustments).

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