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The Kessel File-Volume 2 - Phil Wants Out of Beantown

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Old
09-12-2009, 07:43 PM
  #926
zeke
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we traded Steen and Cola for Stempniak, for chrissake.

two mid-1sts for Kessel is a steal.

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09-12-2009, 07:47 PM
  #927
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke View Post
we traded Steen and Cola for Stempniak, for chrissake.

two mid-1sts for Kessel is a steal.
That is if they're mids round picks though. Even this season, should we trade for Kessel, we won't be getting his services for a couple months while he's injured. In a perfet world, I'd like that 2011 first to complete our future first line.

2011 pick - Kadri - Kessel

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09-12-2009, 07:47 PM
  #928
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This is stupid... we should be trading according to the SITUATION, not according to the player...

OF COURSE boston can't expect equal value in return for Kessel! They are screwed in terms of cap... with 2 firsts and a second we are basically giving them alot closer to market value than they should be recieving

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Old
09-12-2009, 07:50 PM
  #929
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Yikes, that's pretty steep. I'd rather trade a 1st and a prospect and a 2nd/3rd. I mean, 2 firsts isn't an awful deal, but it's pretty darn expensive in a league with a cap and where you need to draft and develop your own talent, IMO.

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09-12-2009, 07:51 PM
  #930
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I'd give up 2 firsts for Kessel in a heartbeat.

We get Kessel, and we're right there in the middle of the pack (AT LEAST) in the NHL, and two mid-1sts for Kessel is a no-brainer.
Agreed. Not to mention we get Kessel immedialtey and dont have to wait 3 years for the picks to develop.

Kessel for 2 1sts in fine by me. Kid is well worth it. Hes a star, picks are huge question marks.

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09-12-2009, 07:52 PM
  #931
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Originally Posted by AUC2MIC View Post
This is stupid... we should be trading according to the SITUATION, not according to the player...

OF COURSE boston can't expect equal value in return for Kessel! They are screwed in terms of cap... with 2 firsts and a second we are basically giving them alot closer to market value than they should be recieving
true... but the problem is Chia just has to say "we will match"...and all hopes of getting Kessel is down the flusher...

Burke is a smart guy.. so is Chia....

But I am glad your smart enough to reconize that Kessel's true value and not the typical HF mantra......Draft Picks >>>>> proven nhl talent

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09-12-2009, 08:00 PM
  #932
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How about we just offer-sheet him for a 1st, 2nd and 3rd instead of two 1sts and a 2nd...:/

and no, I don't care if Burke hates offer-sheets, its in the rules now, so utilize them when you can!

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09-12-2009, 08:01 PM
  #933
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I would rather walk away if their price is 2 first rounders +. We are a rebuilding team we need those picks regardless of whether its top to mid first round. We can afford to give away 2 years worth of picks. We need to stockpile them. I was willing to give up 1 first rounder + more. But I would not give 2.

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09-12-2009, 08:02 PM
  #934
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Originally Posted by Cappo619 View Post
How about we just offer-sheet him for a 1st, 2nd and 3rd instead of two 1sts and a 2nd...:/

and no, I don't care if Burke hates offer-sheets, its in the rules now, so utilize them when you can!
Cause then Boston just matches, and makes a move to clear cap space. Boston's ownership has said Chiarelli can match any offer sheet on kessel without any hesitation. Obviously Chiarelli wants more then a 1st 2nd and 3rd for kessel.

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09-12-2009, 08:02 PM
  #935
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Originally Posted by Cappo619 View Post
How about we just offer-sheet him for a 1st, 2nd and 3rd instead of two 1sts and a 2nd...:/

and no, I don't care if Burke hates offer-sheets, its in the rules now, so utilize them when you can!
Wont he just match that though? Yeah I think that is what might happen. The odds are looking slim now.

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Old
09-12-2009, 08:04 PM
  #936
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Wont he just match that though? Yeah I think that is what might happen. The odds are looking slim now.
I'd much rather keep the picks then..

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09-12-2009, 08:04 PM
  #937
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Originally Posted by !!TML97!! View Post
I would rather walk away if their price is 2 first rounders +. We are a rebuilding team we need those picks regardless of whether its top to mid first round. We can afford to give away 2 years worth of picks. We need to stockpile them. I was willing to give up 1 first rounder + more. But I would not give 2.
We are NOT rebuilding.

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Old
09-12-2009, 08:07 PM
  #938
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Originally Posted by song4thedeaf View Post
true... but the problem is Chia just has to say "we will match"...and all hopes of getting Kessel is down the flusher...

Burke is a smart guy.. so is Chia....

But I am glad your smart enough to reconize that Kessel's true value and not the typical HF mantra......Draft Picks >>>>> proven nhl talent
Look I really want Kessel and if it took 2 first rounders to get him I would eventually be happy(after a few swear words)
The thing that scares me is that he's not really Proven. Dont get me wrong he is a great talent I'm just a little scared considering we may lose 2 first rounders.

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Old
09-12-2009, 08:08 PM
  #939
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Originally Posted by Machinae View Post
We are NOT rebuilding.
Retooling, rebuilding. Whatever. We cant afford to throw all those picks away.

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Old
09-12-2009, 08:09 PM
  #940
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Question:

Would you trade a 13th and 17th overall pick for a 5th overall pick?

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Old
09-12-2009, 08:11 PM
  #941
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Originally Posted by bionic View Post
Look I really want Kessel and if it took 2 first rounders to get him I would eventually be happy(after a few swear words)
The thing that scares me is that he's not really Proven. Dont get me wrong he is a great talent I'm just a little scared considering we may lose 2 first rounders.
How are 2 imaginary players any more proven than Kessel? Just because you pick in the first doesn't mean that player is guaranteed to be a franchise player... I will say that it's never an easy decision to trade a 1st but I would like to think our scouts would just work that much harder in getting players in other rounds... a draft doesnt consist of one round as much as Gary Bettman wants it to seem that way.

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Old
09-12-2009, 08:12 PM
  #942
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke View Post
Question:

Would you trade a 13th and 17th overall pick for a 5th overall pick?
We better hope kessel makes enough of an impact that we move that high, but the obvious answer is yes.

Also, imagine its 2 1st rounders and a player and the second is used on an offer sheet to dubinsky. Toss finger to the marlies and gg, leafs are a playoff team.

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Old
09-12-2009, 08:14 PM
  #943
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Originally Posted by !!TML97!! View Post
Retooling, rebuilding. Whatever. We cant afford to throw all those picks away.
*sigh*

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Old
09-12-2009, 08:18 PM
  #944
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If the boys give up 2 firsts and a second, I will *facepalm* like crazy. I was already against giving up the compensation for making an offer sheet. I hope that like most of the other rumors this summer that this isn't the one that actually comes true.

Reasoning:

-one first round pick in #10-#15 (which I think is generous, because PK will be useless until december+), may turn out to be something - i'd like the leafs to actually take that risk for once, now having decent scouts/decision makers on staff
-i am tired of utilizing other teams scouts to pick up players for assets, why even hire scouts? it's like paying them for nothing really - woopie lets pay you guys for some sick 4th-7th round plugs
- i'm tired of being a fan of the team that can't develop it's own stars, let's give away all of the assets for a potential, unproven sniper
-fans want the quick fix, i am tired of the quick fix. if kessel flops in 2 years (pulls a heatley/blake/yashin/insert other player here) then we have lost out. i'd rather be a fan of team that took chances for the 1st time on our scouting selection

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Old
09-12-2009, 08:23 PM
  #945
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke View Post
Question:

Would you trade a 13th and 17th overall pick for a 5th overall pick?
Would you trade Dustin Brown and Zach Parise for Phil Kessel?

Or Alex Semin alone (and Boyd Gordon as a throw in) for Phil Kessel?

Or Ales Hemsky and Carlo Colaiacovo for Phil Kessel?

Let's not pretend people have never nabbed elite talent with picks in the mid teens.

And as far as Kessel being a proven commodity at 21, we don't know if he'll end up being a great player like Pat Lafontaine or fizzle out like a Jimmy Carson or Ed Olzcyk. So it's hardly a no brainer to pay that steep price for Phil Kessel. He's not Sidney Crosby.

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Old
09-12-2009, 08:30 PM
  #946
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Originally Posted by Phluxed View Post
We better hope kessel makes enough of an impact that we move that high, but the obvious answer is yes.

Also, imagine its 2 1st rounders and a player and the second is used on an offer sheet to dubinsky. Toss finger to the marlies and gg, leafs are a playoff team.
If we can miraculously get Kessel via Trade and offer-sheet Dubinsky, we are honestly so close to making a legit playoff push for MANY years to come..

Both players are very good, both have proved they can play in the NHL, and both would make an excellent addition to this team..

C'mon Burkey..Make it happen for us...We've waited long enough!

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Old
09-12-2009, 08:36 PM
  #947
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Originally Posted by Cappo619 View Post
If we can miraculously get Kessel via Trade and offer-sheet Dubinsky, we are honestly so close to making a legit playoff push for MANY years to come..

Both players are very good, both have proved they can play in the NHL, and both would make an excellent addition to this team..

C'mon Burkey..Make it happen for us...We've waited long enough!
Interesting thought. Not sure how they would ever be able to do it according to the salary cap, but there would need to be some other moves, unless BB is serious about perhaps putting Finger or some other contract on the Marlies.

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Old
09-12-2009, 08:37 PM
  #948
zeke
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
Would you trade Dustin Brown and Zach Parise for Phil Kessel?
ah, the famous 2003 draft.

Would you trade Jessiman (12th '03) and Bernier (16th '03) for Kessel?

Quote:
Or Alex Semin alone (and Boyd Gordon as a throw in) for Phil Kessel?
or 2 of #9 Taticek, #10 Nystrom, #12 Eminger, #14 Higgins, #15 Ninmaki, #16 Klepis, #17 Gordon, #18 Grebeshkov, #19 Koreis, #20 Paille?

Quote:
Or Ales Hemsky and Carlo Colaiacovo for Phil Kessel?
Or 2 of #10 Blackburn, #11 Sjostrom, #12 Hamhuis, #14 Kobasew, #15 Kynazev, #16 Umberger, #17 Cola, #18 karlsson, #19 Morrisson, #20 Goc?

Quote:
Let's not pretend people have never nabbed elite talent with picks in the mid teens.
let's not pretend that the odds of getting a Kessel with either of 2 mid-round picks are anwhere close to "good".

Quote:
And as far as Kessel being a proven commodity at 21, we don't know if he'll end up being a great player like Pat Lafontaine or fizzle out like a Jimmy Carson or Ed Olzcyk. So it's hardly a no brainer to pay that steep price for Phil Kessel. He's not Sidney Crosby.
Yeah, and you don't get a Sidney Crosby for 2 mid first round picks.

he does, however, compare well to other top-5 picks at the same age like Thornton, Gaborik, Heatley, Spezza, nash, horton, Vanek, Ryan, Toews,

and much better than other top-5 picks like the Sedins, Connolly, Weiss, M.Koivu, zherdev, etc.

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Old
09-12-2009, 08:40 PM
  #949
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i don't feel sorry for these teams like Boston that can get under the cap.

if they end up loosing Kessel to the Leafs & receiving lesser value in the form of picks then thats their own fault by not following guide lines for payroll.

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09-12-2009, 08:41 PM
  #950
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1+2+3 seems fair...

but 1 + 1 + 2 seems too much...

I have such respect for Dave Morrison's abilities, that between those 2 1sts and the 2nd, he'll get a player of Phil's ability OR at least, the 3 combined players in the end will seem much higher value than Kessel...

I still doubt Kessel's intangibles...the personality etc. so I'm not as high on him as most...

I CAN see the other argument though, which is, sure you can score a lot of goals when guys get 15, 20 on your team, but gamebreakers help in the playoffs.

but you know what will happen...

even with the offer sheet...

there will be some Cody Hodgson or Ryan Getzlaf type player selected with our old pick by Boston...

and we'll be debating whether it was worth it...

hehe..oh well...it's Burkey's call...

Kessel is a speed demon who can finish.

we could sure use him in shootouts

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