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Gretzky out as coach in Phoenix....maybe

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Old
09-13-2009, 10:50 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by JonnyC View Post
I think this was discussed earlier but I cannot find the post. Can someone explain what is included in Gretzky's salary? I assume he does not get paid 6 or 8 million solely for coaching.
Court filings indicated that TGO is being paid $1.6m for his role as coach. The remainder is for his executive position and possibly other ownership considerations.

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09-13-2009, 10:27 PM
  #77
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09-14-2009, 05:50 AM
  #78
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Hopefully we'll get some answers today.

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Old
09-14-2009, 04:19 PM
  #79
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This whole debacle has gone on way too long, can we get back to hockey already?

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09-14-2009, 05:09 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by mouser View Post
Court filings indicated that TGO is being paid $1.6m for his role as coach. The remainder is for his executive position and possibly other ownership considerations.
Thanks. That is exactly what I was looking for.

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09-14-2009, 06:20 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mouser View Post
Court filings indicated that TGO is being paid $1.6m for his role as coach. The remainder is for his executive position and possibly other ownership considerations.
I am confident that this info will not get in the way of those continuously regurgitating that TGO was being paid $8.0mm to coach.

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Old
09-14-2009, 07:17 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Matzel View Post
I am confident that this info will not get in the way of those continuously regurgitating that TGO was being paid $8.0mm to coach.
You're right. $ 1.6 M to coach and $ 6.4 M for a fictitious executive job is much easier to swallow. Oh - I almost forgot about "ownership considerations" - how the guy managed to get cash for shares he never paid for in the first place, shares of a business that was losing money left and right, is beyond me.

Now - I'm not saying he did anything shady or illegal. It was a valid contract, and no-one was forcing Moyes' hand. But let's not kid ourselves - he was being paid an outrageous amount of cash and we got very, very little in return. Pretty much the worst signing in franchise history.

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09-14-2009, 07:23 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by zz View Post
You're right. $ 1.6 M to coach and $ 6.4 M for a fictitious executive job is much easier to swallow. Oh - I almost forgot about "ownership considerations" - how the guy managed to get cash for shares he never paid for in the first place, shares of a business that was losing money left and right, is beyond me.

Now - I'm not saying he did anything shady or illegal. It was a valid contract, and no-one was forcing Moyes' hand. But let's not kid ourselves - he was being paid an outrageous amount of cash and we got very, very little in return. Pretty much the worst signing in franchise history.
You can't blame Gretzky, like he was going to turn the offer down. If it's one thing we've learned in this whole process it's that Moyes is not very responsible with his money!

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09-14-2009, 07:31 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Sinurgy View Post
You can't blame Gretzky, like he was going to turn the offer down. If it's one thing we've learned in this whole process it's that Moyes is not very responsible with his money!
Agreed, just like I wouldn't blame the player who signs a 5-year, $ 40 M contract and only contributes 10 goals / season.

But at some point, one has to take responsibility for his failures if one wants to avoid public humiliation. IMO Gretzky has 2 ways out of this: either he agrees to coach for $ 1 M / yr, or he quits. But whatever the outcome, he needs to give up on the remainder of his contract. He's been unable to help the team so far, on or off the ice.


Last edited by zz: 09-14-2009 at 11:40 PM.
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09-14-2009, 09:01 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by zz View Post
Agreed, just like I wouldn't blame the player a player who signs a 5-year, $ 40 M contract and only contributes 10 goals / season.

But at some point, one has to take responsibility for his failures if one wants to avoid public humiliation. IMO Gretzky has 2 ways out of this: either he agrees to coach for $ 1 M / yr, or he quits. But whatever the outcome, he needs to give up on the remainder of his contract. He's been unable to help the team so far, on or off the ice.
Just to add: I think Wayne should take a majority of that money he made with the team and give it back either to the team or pay for the advertising on billboards and such!
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09-14-2009, 09:57 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by ArizonaPride View Post
Just to add: I think Wayne should take a majority of that money he made with the team and give it back either to the team or pay for the advertising on billboards and such!
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Last I heard, Gretzky hasn't yet deposited one cheque that he's earned from coaching the team. He's doing this largely because he loves the game.

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09-14-2009, 10:36 PM
  #87
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Last I heard, Gretzky hasn't yet deposited one cheque that he's earned from coaching the team. He's doing this largely because he loves the game.
Doesn't matter. Moyes still wrote them off as losses, and caused this team a lot of financial grief. If he loves the game so much he should collect a small ownership piece and that is all. No cash.

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09-14-2009, 11:02 PM
  #88
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Doesn't matter. Moyes still wrote them off as losses, and caused this team a lot of financial grief. If he loves the game so much he should collect a small ownership piece and that is all. No cash.
Well he's taken no cash and has a small percentage of the team.

Moyes wrote off as much as he could on the backs of the Coyote franchise. Gretzky or no Gretzky, they would be in this position. Gretzky is just a pawn in this game.

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09-14-2009, 11:27 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by hbk View Post
Last I heard, Gretzky hasn't yet deposited one cheque that he's earned from coaching the team. He's doing this largely because he loves the game.
Link?

I know he's deferred last year's salary, but why would you negotiate a huge 5 year contract and not take one penny from it?? Makes no sense.

Love of the game? Please. We're talking NHL, multi-million dollar contracts here, big business, not exactly pee-wee coaching for underprivileged czech kids who can't read good.

Gretzky's a shrewd businessman. There's a reason why his equity got converted into an all-cash contract.

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09-14-2009, 11:48 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by zz View Post
Link?

I know he's deferred last year's salary, but why would you negotiate a huge 5 year contract and not take one penny from it?? Makes no sense.

Love of the game? Please. We're talking NHL, multi-million dollar contracts here, big business, not exactly pee-wee coaching for underprivileged czech kids who can't read good.

Gretzky's a shrewd businessman. There's a reason why his equity got converted into an all-cash contract.
Last report I saw showed Gretzky was owed $8 million in deferred salary.

Gretzky has plent of cash and doesn't need this gig for income purposes. I don't consider him to be a very shrewd business man. In fact, Gretzky's got a long history of unfortunate business propositions (Toronto Argos for one).

The deal he received from Elman was a no-brainer. 10% of an NHL franchise and free reign to do whatever he wants. Of course they tried to band aid a plan together rather than taking the lumps up front (Langkow for 2003 1st round pick in a move that set this franchise back 4 years and the reason I am not a fan of Cliff Fletcher) but that's another rant that I've already given.

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Old
09-14-2009, 11:53 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by hbk View Post
Last report I saw showed Gretzky was owed $8 million in deferred salary.
That's one year of income, right?

Don't get me wrong, it is pretty generous, but that's pretty different from not depositing one cheque in 4 years...

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Old
09-15-2009, 01:37 AM
  #92
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The way I see it is if Gretzky stays, then Phoenix goes. To Canada, Portland, or whereever, I don't care. It's not only that they suck with him at the helm, but they're not even fun to watch! With so much youth and speed, it's been a true disappointment how boring so many of their games are. No system, no drive, no anything. The few times that something big happened seemed to be when players said screw it and did their own thing. That's also a reason it sucks that Lisin is gone. He said screw it a lot.

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Old
09-15-2009, 06:49 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by zz View Post
That's one year of income, right?

Don't get me wrong, it is pretty generous, but that's pretty different from not depositing one cheque in 4 years...
Or 4 years in coaching salary.

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09-15-2009, 09:18 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by lockstock View Post
The few times that something big happened seemed to be when players said screw it and did their own thing. That's also a reason it sucks that Lisin is gone. He said screw it a lot.
I agree with you in principle on the lack of excitement of the youthful team, but you could have picked a better example. "Screw it" Lisin earned a -13 in 48 games last season, and a -18 in 17 games two seasons prior. When the +/- stat is that gaudy, it really does mean something. More Enver Lisins on the Coyotes would have meant even more losses.

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Old
09-15-2009, 10:26 AM
  #95
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Or 4 years in coaching salary.
No no no no no... let's get this straight: yes, the contract structure included coaching, exec job, and ownership considerations. But that doesn't change the fact he was paid $ 8 M / yr. Let's not play a game of interpretations, spin, and fact twisting. Thank you.

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09-15-2009, 03:02 PM
  #96
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If this drags on any longer I have to wonder why Wayne doesn't just voluntarily step aside if this team is going through Training Camp without it's head coach. If it was any other coach, for any other reason and the guy couldn't be there for an indefinite amount of time, he would step aside and let someone else take control if it's a hinderance to the team.

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09-15-2009, 04:47 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Tom Polakis View Post
I agree with you in principle on the lack of excitement of the youthful team, but you could have picked a better example. "Screw it" Lisin earned a -13 in 48 games last season, and a -18 in 17 games two seasons prior. When the +/- stat is that gaudy, it really does mean something. More Enver Lisins on the Coyotes would have meant even more losses.
I'm not going to argue that point, I mostly agree with it. I'm just saying that if we're going to suck, we should at least suck with some flash. We have the excitement of a Minnesota system with the results of the Detroit Lions. That's not going to bring in any fans.

Minnesota is like a blackjack system where you're going to grind a 2% win over many hours. Coyotes system is one where you're going to grind away all your money over many hours. What's the point? Might as well go big. We've got the resources for it. Unleash the kids. Train them hard and don't ever let them stop. Let them make mistakes and learn from them. It's obvious the coach isn't teaching them all the things they should be learning.

Yeah, it would still suck to lose, but this is about the best I can hope for under Gretzky.

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Old
09-15-2009, 09:00 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by zz View Post
No no no no no... let's get this straight: yes, the contract structure included coaching, exec job, and ownership considerations. But that doesn't change the fact he was paid $ 8 M / yr. Let's not play a game of interpretations, spin, and fact twisting. Thank you.
How long has Gretzky been making $8 Million / year. Was this when Moyes came on board and decided to buy out Gretzky's shares or not?

Is your theory is that Gretzky didn't realize he hadn't been paid all season long? Or are you claiming he just decide this year to not cash in any of his various salaries? I wish I could find the radio interview (and it was either Macguire or Pang who gave it) where they mentioned that Gretzky has purposely not cashed any of his checks for coaching the franchise. Take it for what it's worth.


Last edited by hbk: 09-15-2009 at 09:16 PM.
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Old
09-18-2009, 10:22 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by zz View Post
I like Sauer a lot, but he was our #4 D-man. When an injury to your #4 d-man kills your entire season, you don't have a system in place.

Since Gretzky started coaching, scoring has always been a problem. PP has always been a problem as well. If we do have an offensive system in place, please explain it to me.

We're not that great at dumping and chasing.
Our passing sucks.
We're not great at owning the puck, either.
We've got speed, but lack that first pass from our D to send our guys flying.

Our PP has no creativity whatsoever. It's completely static and dumb. If we're lucky, we get a shot from the point that never gets to the goal. We're not invading the crease, and I don't know if 'deflection' is part of Gretzky's vocabulary. If we're not so lucky, we get a Jovo pass on a predictable lane and get a turnover. Or our point man is incapable of keeping the puck in the zone.

So again - you seem to think Gretzky has a system in place. What does it consist of?
Yes. So true.

In the end, a great coach could put a system in place that would see chimps score at will in the NHL.

Skill, experience, capabilities, depth of the roster are meaningless. Losing Sauer, Rhino, Hanzal, to name a few, did not compromise the success of this team. A decent coach would have just put a system in place that would have seen the Coyotes storm to the top of the league.

All it comes down to is the coach! Vets who don't perform up to their capabilities (cough... Jovo... cough... Bryz... cough... Morris...)? Nobody's fault but the coaches.

Doom and gloom reports about the franchise? Media writing them off and proclaiming that the team has no future in the desert? Doesn't matter with a great coach!

Youngsters suffering through sophomore slumps? Rookies running out of steam towards the end of the season? Never mattered to teams that were coached by a decent coach!

FIRE GRETZKY!

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Old
09-19-2009, 12:02 AM
  #100
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Yes. So true.

In the end, a great coach could put a system in place that would see chimps score at will in the NHL.

Skill, experience, capabilities, depth of the roster are meaningless. Losing Sauer, Rhino, Hanzal, to name a few, did not compromise the success of this team. A decent coach would have just put a system in place that would have seen the Coyotes storm to the top of the league.

All it comes down to is the coach! Vets who don't perform up to their capabilities (cough... Jovo... cough... Bryz... cough... Morris...)? Nobody's fault but the coaches.

Doom and gloom reports about the franchise? Media writing them off and proclaiming that the team has no future in the desert? Doesn't matter with a great coach!

Youngsters suffering through sophomore slumps? Rookies running out of steam towards the end of the season? Never mattered to teams that were coached by a decent coach!

FIRE GRETZKY!
Save it, Janet. Maloney himself said that coaching needs to improve this season:

http://coyotes.nhl.tv/team/console.j...id=-6&id=46263

But you probably know better than him, just like you know better than every other poster on this board...

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