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The Michael F'in Nylander Thread (Headed to Dynamo Minsk?)

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Old
09-15-2009, 08:40 AM
  #76
Drake1588
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In the case of loans, where the Caps/European club work out a breakdown of the salary to be paid, is there a set NHL policy on the extent to which the club gets cap relief? Is there even a precedent since 2005? Are we merely guessing, or do we know for sure that if he's in Europe on loan, he's off the cap (even if Leonsis is paying all or part of the salary)?

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09-15-2009, 09:03 AM
  #77
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I think Radim Vbrata from last year is a similar case. Different in some ways, but some of the same issues at play where the cap was concerned

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09-15-2009, 09:17 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
I think Radim Vbrata from last year is a similar case. Different in some ways, but some of the same issues at play where the cap was concerned
What was the outcome in the Radim Vrbata case?

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09-15-2009, 09:49 AM
  #79
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Just looking at the Vrbata case a bit, it's a pretty helpful example to shed light into some of the potential dynamics in play here. Tampa Bay did not pay Vrbata after he was loaned out. They also shed his cap hit and the season still ticked off of his contract.

Vrbata did request the loan in the first place...so that might be a special case. If that's the case then there could be a battle of wills coming (and icing him out may have been laying the groundwork for that perhaps).

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09-15-2009, 09:53 AM
  #80
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Excellent. Well, he isn't going to Europe at all without his consent, so he has to be willing and to essentially request it anyway. You can't "trade" a player to Europe. You can help him to get settled over there on loan and separately work out financial arrangements with the host club, providing the NHL agrees, but at no point is the player outside the loop, even one without a NMC or NTC. Every player, be it one on a ELC, with or without a limited or full movement/trade clause, with arbitration rights or without, is on a guaranteed NHL contract. Any change is necessarily by the player's request.

So this would be very similar in the sense that Nylander, however reluctantly, would technically be requesting the loan for it to happen at all. Even if his options include Europe or the press box, he can choose the press box and he can't be forced to leave the team under any circumstances. His willingness to go, his request to go, is implicit with this getting off the ground in the first place.


Last edited by Drake1588: 09-15-2009 at 10:21 AM. Reason: typo
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09-15-2009, 09:56 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Langway View Post
Vrbata did request the loan in the first place...so that might be a special case. If that's the case then there could be a battle of wills coming (and icing him out may have been laying the groundwork for that perhaps).
Hence Nylander going to the press with the "Huh? Loan? What?" type of lines.

He has the Caps by the balls...and he knows it.

Sly bald *******.

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09-15-2009, 10:07 AM
  #82
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Ok...screw it. He's staying...so let's get him in the line up.

Ovie - Backstrom - Knuble
??? - Morrison - Semin
Laich - Nylander - Clark
Gordon - Steckel - Bradley

Maybe?

I'd rather have Aucoin out there...but he's here and playing ok so far...so what the hell? Right?


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Old
09-15-2009, 10:18 AM
  #83
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I'd start him on the wing in the top-six, personally. Maybe:

Ovechkin - Backstrom - Semin
Nylander - Morrison - Knuble
Laich - Steckel - Clark
TokenBear - Gordon - Bradley

Try both of Nylander and Morrison at LW and see who is a better performer at the position.

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Old
09-15-2009, 10:19 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake1588 View Post
So this would be very similar in the sense that Nylander, however reluctantly, would technically be requesting the loan for it to happen at all.
I'm not sure. He would have to approve of the move given his NMC but would the salary ramifications be different if he was not the party to initiate the process in the first place? That may be the bigger determining factor in whether or not the club is responsible for paying the player after they're loaned out...but I'd have to dig into the CBA (if it's even addressed).

As is increasingly clear, Nylander has a level of control on where he goes like few other players in the league. At some point, icing the player out becomes a failed strategy. The lines of communication have to be there to get things moving one way or another.

Ovechkin - Backstrom - Clark
Laich - Nylander - Semin
Bourque/A.Gordon/Osala - Morrison - Knuble
B.Gordon - Steckel - Bradley

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Old
09-15-2009, 10:24 AM
  #85
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The Caps can play Nylander, convince him to want to go to Europe, or send him to the press box with his full cap hit.

There was never another option. So yes: Implicit with the Europe option was always convincing Nylander to go of his own free will. If he's happy enough to earn his paycheck and not play, then he will earn his paycheck and not play.

That said, once he agrees, he agrees. There is no difference between agreeing reluctantly and agreeing with bells on. Agreeing to it is the same no matter his preferences. It won't make a difference.

Personally? I think he plays for the Caps, after Boudreau gets his head out of his ass.

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Old
09-15-2009, 10:26 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Drake1588 View Post
Try both of Nylander and Morrison at LW and see who is a better performer at the position.
Hmmm...that might work...maybe.

Semin and Morrison looked good together yesterday...so I think Knuble will end up on that top line. Laich and Clark are working well together with Aucoin in the middle...so replacing him with Nylander makes the most sense...yet kills the Laich - Steckel - Bradley line.

Robble.

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09-15-2009, 10:27 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by strungout View Post
Hmmm...that might work...maybe.

Semin and Morrison looked good together yesterday...so I think Knuble will end up on that top line. Laich and Clark are working well together with Aucoin in the middle...so replacing him with Nylander makes the most sense...yet kills the Laich - Steckel - Bradley line.

Robble.
OK...

Ovechkin - Backstrom - Knuble
Nylander/Morrison/Semin - Morrison/Nylander - Morrison/Semin

How's that for confusing?

From what I recall of his past roles, I suspect that Nylander is a LW or C, and not a realistic RW option.

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09-15-2009, 10:29 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Drake1588 View Post
Ovechkin - Backstrom - Nylander
Because that worked so well last season...



We're screwed.

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09-15-2009, 10:30 AM
  #89
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I see it this way: Nylander wants to play in the NHL. He knows his best shot is for the Caps to buy him out. He know he can catch on with another team if there's no salary albatross. By showing up and saying what he said, he's telling the Caps they can buy him out, play him or sit him. He's going to be a good soldier, work hard, and do what they want. He's betting that the Caps won't want to pay him to sit and will eventually buy him out if they can't trade him.

The Caps can sit him and hope that he starts to feel the pressure of not playing and losing the last years of his career. They can remind him he'll likely be playing in Hershey next year at age 38.

What this will come down to is how badly Nylander wants to play hockey vs. how badly he wants to be an NHLer.

If it were me, and things couldn't be worked out with Boudreau, I'd just send him home with pay and accept that he's not going budge. I'd thank him for showing up and wish him the best. Let him know he can work out a Euro deal when/if he changes his mind. If the PA filed a complaint, then he can sit in the press box all year.

Edit: Neither Nylander or Mo 2 can play the wing. Nylander is especially bad along the boards since the shoulder injury. Both are considerably better at center.

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Old
09-15-2009, 10:31 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by strungout View Post
Because that worked so well last season...



We're screwed.
Yeah, yeah... Agreed. I was updating it myself at the time.

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Old
09-15-2009, 10:38 AM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake1588 View Post
I'd start him on the wing in the top-six, personally. Maybe:

Ovechkin - Backstrom - Semin
Nylander - Morrison - Knuble
Laich - Steckel - Clark
TokenBear - Gordon - Bradley

Try both of Nylander and Morrison at LW and see who is a better performer at the position.
ya know what.... i kinda like it*



would love to see Osala get that 4th line spot, but this is the season of the Bork. if he cant make the big squad with both Fehr & Flash on the proverbial sidelines, well... thats it with the Caps methinks.


* in a 'well lets make the best of what we got' kinda way


Last edited by Roccoman: 09-15-2009 at 10:46 AM.
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Old
09-15-2009, 10:59 AM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnBB21 View Post
I see it this way: Nylander wants to play in the NHL. He knows his best shot is for the Caps to buy him out. He know he can catch on with another team if there's no salary albatross. By showing up and saying what he said, he's telling the Caps they can buy him out, play him or sit him. He's going to be a good soldier, work hard, and do what they want. He's betting that the Caps won't want to pay him to sit and will eventually buy him out if they can't trade him.

The Caps can sit him and hope that he starts to feel the pressure of not playing and losing the last years of his career. They can remind him he'll likely be playing in Hershey next year at age 38.

What this will come down to is how badly Nylander wants to play hockey vs. how badly he wants to be an NHLer.

If it were me, and things couldn't be worked out with Boudreau, I'd just send him home with pay and accept that he's not going budge. I'd thank him for showing up and wish him the best. Let him know he can work out a Euro deal when/if he changes his mind. If the PA filed a complaint, then he can sit in the press box all year.

Edit: Neither Nylander or Mo 2 can play the wing. Nylander is especially bad along the boards since the shoulder injury. Both are considerably better at center.
Except the Caps can't buy him out this season anymore, and there's no benefit to buying him out next season at all. He has to know that if he's still with the team come July 1 of next year, and he's still in this standoff, then he's either traded to whoever doesn't make us take back any salary, or on waivers come training camp.

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09-15-2009, 11:38 AM
  #93
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... and there's no benefit to buying him out next season at all.
While this season's buyout window is closed, that is not true where next season is concerned. There is reduced benefit, to be sure, but there is some benefit to buying him out next summer just the same. The benefit is that his $4.875M cap hit drops to $2.875M in the final season under which he would have been under contract, followed by a $1M cap hit the following season. Per sk8's sticky:

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=19803269&postcount=7

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09-15-2009, 11:39 AM
  #94
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A lot of people are entirely dismissing the idea that the Caps will play him at all if he is here, or at least try it out, and I find that position completely baffling. If he's here, and he's nearly $5M against the cap, he has a NMC in hand, he's not amenable to a loan to Europe, and there is no NHL market for him, then they just have to play him.

Doing so would 1) recoup something (anything...) from the investment, and 2) raise the possibility that a Nylander who may produce would raise his trade value from negative or zero to ... something. Not playing a player that expensive solidifies Nylander's albatross rep.

There is no sense in it. I have a very hard time believing that they will banish him outright.

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09-15-2009, 12:41 PM
  #95
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Par for the course on this Nylander deal is that he completely rocks it out in camp and preseason while Morrisson is pedestrian at best. This forces the Caps to dump Morrisson to keep Nylander and further make the Caps look like the land of the lost on the UFA market.

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09-15-2009, 12:44 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Roccoman View Post
ya know what.... i kinda like it*



would love to see Osala get that 4th line spot, but this is the season of the Bork. if he cant make the big squad with both Fehr & Flash on the proverbial sidelines, well... thats it with the Caps methinks.


* in a 'well lets make the best of what we got' kinda way
Alzner to Hershey.

I guess that was always going to happen though. Sigh.

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Old
09-15-2009, 12:44 PM
  #97
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I haven't been to camp, but it sounds rather as though both of Nylander and Brendan Morrison have looked good at times, from the second-hand reviews.

The Caps can absolutely go ahead and keep both of them, give both of them significant ice time, play someone on the wing, and TokenBear is the one left without a chair when the music stops.

I'd go so far as to say that the absolutely best possible outcome is that everyone is pleasantly surprised by a strong showing from Nylander at camp, he integrates himself back into the lineup, and both he and Morrison have respectable seasons. It's valuable depth.

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09-15-2009, 12:45 PM
  #98
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IMHO the best thingfor caps is nyls plays excellent in preseason. He should play every game.

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09-15-2009, 12:51 PM
  #99
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The owners had big leverage over the PA before the last CBA and they STILL came up with a monstrosity of an agreement.

The Nylander situation is incredible, really. At this point, all GMGM can do is watch. The worst part of all of this is that GMGM's has to spend his time resolving this instead of focusing on improving the team.

I once thought Nylander might have a little value at this year's trade deadline because he can be waived after this season. But now even that seems remote. :/

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Old
09-15-2009, 12:53 PM
  #100
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Par for the course on this Nylander deal is that he completely rocks it out in camp and preseason while Morrisson is pedestrian at best. This forces the Caps to dump Morrisson to keep Nylander and further make the Caps look like the land of the lost on the UFA market.
Wha?

Morrison has looked fine with Semin to this point. Why would they dump him? Because Nylander has played ok to this point? They both fit under the cap...why would they just release him? No sense in that one aside from trowing odd a random doom and gloom message.

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