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Old
09-17-2009, 11:53 AM
  #1
Youngblood93
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Top D-Men under 25, DD - 4

http://thehockeynews.com/articles/27...-under-25.html

This is a pretty good list and it won't be long till DD is number 1.

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Old
09-17-2009, 12:02 PM
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jimmy1100
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My prediction? 1 year from now we'll have two guys on this list.

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Old
09-17-2009, 12:20 PM
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Pucknut50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy1100 View Post
My prediction? 1 year from now we'll have two guys on this list.
And it won't be JJ

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Old
09-17-2009, 12:36 PM
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hauspaint
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They called it LEFT-coast.

It's good to see him on that list at 4th. I'm sure healthy Johnsons and Hedman will be on that list soon...

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Old
09-17-2009, 12:39 PM
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Good list but it's strange that he penalizes EJ for being injured. I would switch Burns and Suter and probably have Schenn or Edler at 10. Also a crime that Vlasic isn't somewhere on the list.

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Old
09-17-2009, 12:47 PM
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In THN Yearbook there is a story titled The Next Lidstrom? In it the interview Holland and the foolowing is written.

But there is one player who might approach Lidstrom feats, Holland said. " I think Drew Doughty is a guy who can win multiple Norris Trophies"

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Old
09-17-2009, 12:55 PM
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jimmy1100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pucknut50 View Post
And it won't be JJ
Well, that's who I was referencing.

Keep in mind, I've not only taken down the whole vat of Kool-Aid, but I've crawled inside and licked the container clean in regards to the 09-10 Kings.

Johnson and Doughty each have 40+ points this year...

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Old
09-17-2009, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by jimmy1100 View Post

Johnson and Doughty each have 40+ points this year...
Hands down they will both get 40, if healthy.

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Old
09-17-2009, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fivehole93 View Post
http://thehockeynews.com/articles/27...-under-25.html

This is a pretty good list and it won't be long till DD is number 1.
Personally I think Bogo, EJ, and most likely Hedman will all be better then Doughty.

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Old
09-17-2009, 02:14 PM
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Dave33
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Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
Personally I think Bogo, EJ, and most likely Hedman will all be better then Doughty.
I can understand the first two, but Hedman is just hype at this point. We will see. I think Bogo is more physically gifted but Doughty thinks the game better.

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Old
09-17-2009, 02:41 PM
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I can understand the first two, but Hedman is just hype at this point. We will see. I think Bogo is more physically gifted but Doughty thinks the game better.
Agreed. Bogosian looked like he was 25 last year. His body was much more advanced than Doughty's was. However, I would still rather have Doughty's hockey sense and seemingly vertical learning curve.

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Old
09-17-2009, 04:52 PM
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One look at my avatar and people think I'm automatically a Kings' homer and have a sleighted opinion. However, the reality is that Doughty will be the best defenseman in the league in five to six years. I've never come straight out and said that, out of fear of being ridiculed by the vast amounts of EJ and Hedman fanboys running around HF. But there's a reason Doughty has consistently received these glowing comments from guys like Holland, one of the brightest hockey minds of the last two generations. "Physical tools" has become not only overrated, but somewhat of an overused red herring in all the Ej v. Doughty or Bogosian v. Doughty arguments around here. Do people understand that "physicality" is a learned skill? Do people realize that Doughty could be in the same peak physical condition as EJ or Bogosian? Just because he hasn't reached that potential as quickly as either doesn't mean it cannot or will not happen. A significant reason defenseman like EJ, Bogo, and even our own JJ made so much sound pre-draft and thus far in their NHL careers is because of their accelerated physical maturity. But once that plateaus, there are much more important skills to be learned and tools to be gathered. Niklas Lidstrom didn't win multiple Norris trophies because he pummeled opposing players into the ground night in and night out. The best defensemen of all time, Orr, Bourque, Harvey, Lidstrom, etc. have ALL played a much more cerebral rather than physical defensive game.

Physicality is a learned tool used by the greats in appropriate situations. Physical specimens, like Chris Pronger, can achieve great success using their physical prowess at giving them an edge on the ice. However, they never reach the next tier of d-men like Lidstrom or Bourque. I'm so sick of people talking about how much better EJ or Bogosian will be than Doughty "because they're bigger."

We'll see what happens, and maybe I'm wrong, but I believe Doughty is the best defenseman to come into the NHL since Lidstrom himself. And there is a significant reason people like Holland say these things and people like Yzerman invite DD to Olympic tryouts that should not be overlooked in favor of a hulking 21 year old.

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Old
09-17-2009, 05:41 PM
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Is there really no young defense talent on the west coast? I have a huge beef with Burns being on the list. He spent much of his time playing forward. His point total is not overwhelming and many of them was gathered as a point scoring forward. I hear his defense took a step up this last year but the guy was terrible the year before.

I don't want to hate on Cobourn either but that seems a little high up for him. In regards to Weber and Sutter I think that two defenseman on the same line should hurt there rankings more than help.

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Old
09-17-2009, 05:53 PM
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Coburn ahead of Vlasic seems a little strange.

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Old
09-17-2009, 05:54 PM
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Given that the game is moving to a less physical game(more penalties for physical play, etc), wouldn't physical build become less important?

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Old
09-17-2009, 05:55 PM
  #16
Dave33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aegwillnotwinthecup View Post
One look at my avatar and people think I'm automatically a Kings' homer and have a sleighted opinion. However, the reality is that Doughty will be the best defenseman in the league in five to six years. I've never come straight out and said that, out of fear of being ridiculed by the vast amounts of EJ and Hedman fanboys running around HF. But there's a reason Doughty has consistently received these glowing comments from guys like Holland, one of the brightest hockey minds of the last two generations. "Physical tools" has become not only overrated, but somewhat of an overused red herring in all the Ej v. Doughty or Bogosian v. Doughty arguments around here. Do people understand that "physicality" is a learned skill? Do people realize that Doughty could be in the same peak physical condition as EJ or Bogosian? Just because he hasn't reached that potential as quickly as either doesn't mean it cannot or will not happen. A significant reason defenseman like EJ, Bogo, and even our own JJ made so much sound pre-draft and thus far in their NHL careers is because of their accelerated physical maturity. But once that plateaus, there are much more important skills to be learned and tools to be gathered. Niklas Lidstrom didn't win multiple Norris trophies because he pummeled opposing players into the ground night in and night out. The best defensemen of all time, Orr, Bourque, Harvey, Lidstrom, etc. have ALL played a much more cerebral rather than physical defensive game.

Physicality is a learned tool used by the greats in appropriate situations. Physical specimens, like Chris Pronger, can achieve great success using their physical prowess at giving them an edge on the ice. However, they never reach the next tier of d-men like Lidstrom or Bourque. I'm so sick of people talking about how much better EJ or Bogosian will be than Doughty "because they're bigger."

We'll see what happens, and maybe I'm wrong, but I believe Doughty is the best defenseman to come into the NHL since Lidstrom himself. And there is a significant reason people like Holland say these things and people like Yzerman invite DD to Olympic tryouts that should not be overlooked in favor of a hulking 21 year old.
We're not talking about what kind of shape they were in, or at least I was not. It appears to me that Bogo is the better natural athlete and superior in that physical sense. That cannot be taught. I still prefer Doughty and agree with the part of your rant about the cerebral nature of the game but let's not pretend that the physical aspects aren't huge as well.

By your reasoning, Bogo and EJ could watch thousands of hours of video and catch up to Drew in that aspect of the game;
Do people realize that EJ/Bogo could be in the same peak mental condition as Doughty? Just because they haven't reached that potential as quickly as either doesn't mean it cannot or will not happen.

In the end, I hope Doughty ends up the best, but by no means can you discount the abilities of the others being mentioned.

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