Its funny how we can throw a truckload of hundred dollar bills at an over the hill player like Wade Redden, but we wont sign Dubinsky over a couple hundred thousand...
Its funny how we can throw a truckload of hundred dollar bills at an over the hill player like Wade Redden, but we wont sign Dubinsky over a couple hundred thousand...
Sather has leverage, Dubinsky does not. Next year, Staal, Higgins, and Girardi (probably more players) will have leverage, Sather will not.
Dubi's asking price is very reasonable, but Sather is penny pinching because HE CAN.
Its funny how we can throw a truckload of hundred dollar bills at an over the hill player like Wade Redden, but we wont sign Dubinsky over a couple hundred thousand...
Well, Redden was a UFA and it's a different situationo and blah blah blah.....
you're dealing with apples and oranges. Dubi's contract should not have anything to do with what Sather overpaid for Redden. And $200k more for Dubi could mean $350k more for Staal, more for another guy, more for this guy - it's not just about Dubi. And as it's been stated included in the post above, when negotiating you use as much leverage as possible - Sather is doing that. Everyone hates hearing Sather quibble over $500k, or whatever, then sign Redden to a $6.5MM contract, but to be honest, it's not the right way of looking at things. One should not have anything to do with the other, except that it's aggregated at the end of the day to be less than an overall number.
you're dealing with apples and oranges. Dubi's contract should not have anything to do with what Sather overpaid for Redden. And $200k more for Dubi could mean $350k more for Staal, more for another guy, more for this guy - it's not just about Dubi. And as it's been stated included in the post above, when negotiating you use as much leverage as possible - Sather is doing that. Everyone hates hearing Sather quibble over $500k, or whatever, then sign Redden to a $6.5MM contract, but to be honest, it's not the right way of looking at things. One should not have anything to do with the other, except that it's aggregated at the end of the day to be less than an overall number.
I agree, theres no need to compound mistakes by overpaying restricted free agents just because you gave a ridiculous contract to a UFA.
My issue is I personally dont believe the figures discussed for Dubinsky are overpaying....not by a longshot in fact.
Oh, for the love of God. Have any of you ever been in negotiations for multimillion dollar contracts? (I have.)
1) Generally, it takes a couple of back-and-forths before you meet in the middle. It is rare that the first proposal gets accepted straight away.
2) It is even MORE rare that when the other side comes back with a counteroffer, you simply say "done" in the meeting. No, what you do - even if you like the offer - is say "thank you very much. We'll take a look at what you've proposed and get back to you shortly." Then, you go back to your office run the numbers, analyze the fine print and either a)get back to them a day later with an agreement or b)a counteroffer of your own.
"Blame" hasn't just shifted - rather, the negotiation has finally started. What was reported was the first step in the right direction. As I said a week ago, this all strikes me as standard negotiating back-and-forth. I don't see why that should change now. Overhardt leaks something to the press and you're all ready to jump back into Dubinsky's camp?
My analysis remains the same: If Dubi wants any more than the Rangers are offering for one year, my guess is that he's in for a long wait. If he's serious about the two year deal (and this is the first indication that I've seen that he is), then it'll get done shortly.
okay i have never been fortunate enough to have been involved in million dollar contracts so maybe im missing something here...the "talks" that have been ongoing for 3 months now werent in fact "negotiations"?
From where my uneducated brain is sitting, it appears as if "negotiations" have been ongoing and theyre now haggling over "pocket change" just so either side can save face.
call it what you want, I'll just call it rediculous. Its costing sather, dubi and the NYR more to continue this charade than the 300k they're continuing this pissing match over. If these rumors are correct this is where dubi tells this smuck of an agent to go piss up a rope and gets it done.
okay i have never been fortunate enough to have been involved in million dollar contracts so maybe im missing something here...the "talks" that have been ongoing for 3 months now werent in fact "negotiations"?
From where my uneducated brain is sitting, it appears as if "negotiations" have been ongoing and theyre now haggling over "pocket change" just so either side can save face.
call it what you want, I'll just call it rediculous. Its costing sather, dubi and the NYR more to continue this charade than the 300k they're continuing this pissing match over. If these rumors are correct this is where dubi tells this smuck of an agent to go piss up a rope and gets it done.
Negotiations have been going on all summer, it's just now that we are publicly informed that one side has "budged."
Negotiation is just a method for resolving a dispute so both sides can come to an amicable outcome. I'm not sure why it is implicated that negotiations are just starting now....
If Sather is indeed offering $1.85MM a year for 2 years, I'd take that offer and run. It's a better offer than Staher has given to other players coming off their first contract. Sounding more like this will get done soon.
$2MM for Dubi if fair...however, given where he is with his contract status, why pay up now when you have the leverage, or seemingly have a leverage since Sather thought Dubi would want to play? Further, if reports are correct, the amount has been lowered significantly, and thus Sather may have done a decent job saving his team money in an instance where he could.
Sather has leverage, Dubinsky does not. Next year, Staal, Higgins, and Girardi (probably more players) will have leverage, Sather will not.
Dubi's asking price is very reasonable, but Sather is penny pinching because HE CAN.
Well obviously Sather has leverage, but that does not mean he has to be a fool about it.
The amount of money that we are talking here is negligible. Its pennies.
Sather is just flexing his muscle because he can. I think its foolish. Just sign the guy at one of his reasonable asking prices and get the kid to training camp.
Leverag or no leverage, lock Dubinsky up at his extremely fair asking price for the 2 years and maybe save yourself some money next year.
Cap is starting to be an issue around $1.9MM. Especially if you decide to keep Del Zotto.
Perhaps someone like Voros will be a cap casualty and not make the team?
One thing that hasn't really been discussed around here is that if Dubinsky returns, that's one less forward spot available.
It seems like the Rangers are going with 7 defenseman so there will probably be room for only 1 spare forward. Who will it be? Voros, Lisin, PA? This will be interesting...
you're dealing with apples and oranges. Dubi's contract should not have anything to do with what Sather overpaid for Redden. And $200k more for Dubi could mean $350k more for Staal, more for another guy, more for this guy - it's not just about Dubi. And as it's been stated included in the post above, when negotiating you use as much leverage as possible - Sather is doing that. Everyone hates hearing Sather quibble over $500k, or whatever, then sign Redden to a $6.5MM contract, but to be honest, it's not the right way of looking at things. One should not have anything to do with the other, except that it's aggregated at the end of the day to be less than an overall number.
It is the right way to look at it. If Sather had not went out and signed Redden, he would not be in a situation where he has to fight for every penny and Dubinsky would be in camp.
Perhaps someone like Voros will be a cap casualty and not make the team?
One thing that hasn't really been discussed around here is that if Dubinsky returns, that's one less forward spot available.
It seems like the Rangers are going with 7 defenseman so there will probably be room for only 1 spare forward. Who will it be? Voros, Lisin, PA? This will be interesting...
Yeah, I was thinking that last forward or two may be dictated by dollars. It wouldn't be noose tight but I think Sather would like to leave a little wiggle room for later in the season.
Perhaps someone like Voros will be a cap casualty and not make the team?
One thing that hasn't really been discussed around here is that if Dubinsky returns, that's one less forward spot available.
It seems like the Rangers are going with 7 defenseman so there will probably be room for only 1 spare forward. Who will it be? Voros, Lisin, PA? This will be interesting...
I can see Voros being the odd man out if money is tight. Or we could only carry 13 forwards. Also depends on what we do on defense. If Del Zotto makes it, then it will be even tighter.
When you actually run the numbers you can see why giving Dubinsky 1.85 or 2.15 makes a difference. I think we should just settle in the middle. 2 years/4 mil. We should be ok.
Gilroy in , DelZotto out............extra spot to Saguinetti or Potter with Semenov the spare. Of course they could still bring in a Bouillon for a 6/7 spot
Dubi in, Lisin plays folks, Avery loses time because of it. Deal with it. He is still their and can cause a ruckus when they feel like throwing him in their. Plus he can PK. I do not see it as an issue
Gilroy in , DelZotto out............extra spot to Saguinetti or Potter with Semenov the spare. Of course they could still bring in a Bouillon for a 6/7 spot
Dubi in, Lisin plays folks, Avery loses time because of it. Deal with it. He is still their and can cause a ruckus when they feel like throwing him in their. Plus he can PK. I do not see it as an issue
I'm not worried about having 10 Top 9 forwards. There will be injuries and suspensions. Also creates nice compteition for jobs and some flexibility for the coach.
I'm not worried about having 10 Top 9 forwards. There will be injuries and suspensions. Also creates nice compteition for jobs and some flexibility for the coach.
Yup, unlike last year with only 6 dmen, the players on the ice will be pushed to perform knowing there is another guy in the pressbox ready to step up if they don't.
AUTO-GENERATED CAPGEEK.COM LINES
FORWARDS
Marian Gaborik ($7.500m) / * Brandon Dubinsky ($2.150m) / Vaclav Prospal ($1.150m)
Ryan Callahan ($2.300m) / Chris Drury ($7.050m)/ Ales Kotalik ($3.000m)/
Enver Lisin ($0.790m) / Artem Anisimov ($0.822m) / Chris Higgins ($2.250m)
Sean Avery ($1.938m)/ Brian Boyle ($0.525m)/ Donald Brashear ($1.400m)
Dane Byers ($0.500m)
DEFENSEMEN
Wade Redden ($6.500m) / Michal Rozsival ($5.000m)
Matt Gilroy ($1.750m) / Daniel Girardi ($1.550m)
Michael Del Zotto ($1.087m) / Marc Staal ($0.827m)
Corey Potter ($0.550m)
GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($6.875m) / Steve Valiquette ($0.725m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
ROSTER: 22; PAYROLL: $56.238m; CAP ROOM: $0.774m BONUSES: $0.212m
I disagree. Just because Redden costs $6.5MM doesn't mean Sather would not use his leverage to sign Dubi for a lower amount. Supposedly Dubi has already come down significantly from his asking price. What you're saying is that if Redden wasn't here, and you were GM, you'd lift Dubi's asking price and be done. And then you have all sorts of issues with future RFAs without arbitration rights. It's just not good business, and at the end of the day, this is a business.
Oh, for the love of God. Have any of you ever been in negotiations for multimillion dollar contracts? (I have.)
1) Generally, it takes a couple of back-and-forths before you meet in the middle. It is rare that the first proposal gets accepted straight away.
2) It is even MORE rare that when the other side comes back with a counteroffer, you simply say "done" in the meeting. No, what you do - even if you like the offer - is say "thank you very much. We'll take a look at what you've proposed and get back to you shortly." Then, you go back to your office run the numbers, analyze the fine print and either a)get back to them a day later with an agreement or b)a counteroffer of your own.
"Blame" hasn't just shifted - rather, the negotiation has finally started. What was reported was the first step in the right direction. As I said a week ago, this all strikes me as standard negotiating back-and-forth. I don't see why that should change now. Overhardt leaks something to the press and you're all ready to jump back into Dubinsky's camp?
My analysis remains the same: If Dubi wants any more than the Rangers are offering for one year, my guess is that he's in for a long wait. If he's serious about the two year deal (and this is the first indication that I've seen that he is), then it'll get done shortly.
