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Dubinsky signs (2 years, $3.7MM [$1.85M Cap Hit])

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Old
09-18-2009, 03:52 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
Perhaps someone like Voros will be a cap casualty and not make the team?

One thing that hasn't really been discussed around here is that if Dubinsky returns, that's one less forward spot available.

It seems like the Rangers are going with 7 defenseman so there will probably be room for only 1 spare forward. Who will it be? Voros, Lisin, PA? This will be interesting...
Voros is not a cap casualty. He is a talent casualty. Sather decided to give Voros and Rissmiller 3 year contracts worth $3 million. On what planet are those players worth $1 million per?

One less forward position if Dubinsky returns?

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09-18-2009, 04:04 PM
  #77
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Dubi/Slats, Settle in the middle, one year @ 900K. Dubi, go have a big year and win in Arbitration.

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Old
09-18-2009, 04:10 PM
  #78
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According to this Brooks article in the post, http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...gHDKAoOrcXdmSN, They are not that far apart. If they split the amount up the middle, they would be at 2 mil on a two year contract. I would take Dubinsky at 1.1 mil for one year. No a really big risk.

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09-18-2009, 04:13 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by AXN View Post
According to this Brooks article in the post, http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...gHDKAoOrcXdmSN, They are not that far apart. If they split the amount up the middle, they would be at 2 mil on a two year contract. I would take Dubinsky at 1.1 mil for one year. No a really big risk.
I'd much, much rather have him at 2 years/2 mil per than 1 year at 1.1.

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Old
09-18-2009, 04:17 PM
  #80
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Did Sather have a give and take with Wade Redden?
My guess, yes - but, frankly, not much of one. The July 1 UFA starting gun creates artificial market pressure that you don't see in most other negotiations - if you want the player you pretty much have to bid up and then hope that he takes your offer. There may be one or two give-and-takes (over the space of a few hours) and then the UFA takes the best offer. It's the nature of the beast - the UFA has the ULTIMATE in leverage in that case.

Which is PRECISELY why the team needs to exercise ITS leverage in situations like this. If you want to have the cap space to play in the UFA market, you need to be disciplined in your negotiations with your RFAs - especially when the RFA doesn't have any leverage (i.e. is not arb eligible).

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09-18-2009, 04:21 PM
  #81
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Here's a couple of thoughts.

Brashear makes 1.4 million and Orr make 1 million. Maybe would have taken 900k to stay in NY. That's 400-500k difference wasted and Slats can't come up with that much to bridge the gap on a guy worth trying to keep?

Redden's deal could have easily been 500k less and still outbid anyone else trying to get him.

Did it really take 5million to keep Rozi or would have 4.5 gotten it done?

All of the above players are UFA's and Dubinsky is not. Their overall size of their deal would be impacted by their UFA status. The point is that there are guys on this team where Slats had no problem with throwing a couple 100k extra to sign them, even though it wasn't necessary. Yet, a guy who's worth trying to keep, isn't worth throwing a couple 100k extra towards? Where's the logic?

Just because you have leverage should you demonstrate to your employee that you undervalue them?

Many say that Dubinsky should wait and get his pay day of a 3-4 million. If Callahan is making 2.3 and Ryan Kesler is making 1.75, why only offer a guy like Dubinsky 700k when he's already seeking an amount(1.4 maybe now 1.1) that's already below what he could easily be valued at? For all the Dubinsky bashers, it's not like the guy is saying he wants 3 million. He's asking for half of what Callahan is getting and less then what a guy like Kesler is getting who signed a deal several years ago.

To offer a guy a deal that is way below the value he brings is total lack of respect to that employee and he should rightfully so, question whether or not he wants to work for that employer.

After Y2k there was the DotCom bust. I'd seen guys with good resumes who were making 70-100k (money isn't important but the established value is) apply for jobs at my company that were starting at 35k. They were willing to take that hit, to get the job because the company had the leverage due to a bad job market in IT. If Sather was offering contracts to the people applying for those jobs, he would have said "hey I got the leverage here so I'm going to use it to my best advantage....I'll give you 28k"...doing something like that is absurd and insulting to a potential employee who is already humble enough to take below value. To work for far less then what you're worth and for a company to abuse it's leverage only leads to a foul feeling employee and work environment.

How would you feel if you came to work each day and you were grossly and unnecessarily underpaid because the company you worked for decided it was more important to use their leverage then it was to demonstrate the value that, you, the employee brings?

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Old
09-18-2009, 04:24 PM
  #82
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All of the Ranger fans that have turned on Dubinsky in this case are nuts...this has Glenn Sather is a Dumb A** all over it.

1.1 for Dubinsky is a steal.

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09-18-2009, 04:25 PM
  #83
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Enjoy D****binsky while you still can becuase if he re-ups with the Rangers whether for one or two years, It WILL be the last one or two years he has as a Ranger, I don't think he'll come back and franky after this whole freakin soap opera I don't want him back. I don't care if people start ripping me, but the holdout was really childish and I lost a lot of respect towards him. I know people will say that Glen Sather tried to low ball him, and I understand that but become a UFA before you cash in, a holdout was the most childish thing he could do, and if I were (as someone called him) Toture-rella I would sit him down for the first ten games, this deserves a sort of punishment becuase he disappointed the team when they needed him. Farewell D*****binsky, you won't be missed.

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09-18-2009, 04:25 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
My guess, yes - but, frankly, not much of one. The July 1 UFA starting gun creates artificial market pressure that you don't see in most other negotiations - if you want the player you pretty much have to bid up and then hope that he takes your offer. There may be one or two give-and-takes (over the space of a few hours) and then the UFA takes the best offer. It's the nature of the beast - the UFA has the ULTIMATE in leverage in that case.

Which is PRECISELY why the team needs to exercise ITS leverage in situations like this. If you want to have the cap space to play in the UFA market, you need to be disciplined in your negotiations with your RFAs - especially when the RFA doesn't have any leverage (i.e. is not arb eligible).
Right. Dubi's offer would not be underpaying him in the context of the CBA, which is structured as such that UFAs are overpaid. Kotalik gets "overpaid" and Dubi gets "underpaid", but only in a world of equal leverage. The players association could have negotiated it so younger guys had more leverage, but this was the agreement. It's not like it should be a surprise talented RFAs with no arbitration rights are paid so low, its by design.

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Old
09-18-2009, 04:29 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by NYSportsfan6230 View Post
Enjoy D****binsky while you still can becuase if he re-ups with the Rangers whether for one or two years, It WILL be the last one or two years he has as a Ranger, I don't think he'll come back and franky after this whole freakin soap opera I don't want him back. I don't care if people start ripping me, but the holdout was really childish and I lost a lot of respect towards him. I know people will say that Glen Sather tried to low ball him, and I understand that but become a UFA before you cash in, a holdout was the most childish thing he could do, and if I were (as someone called him) Toture-rella I would sit him down for the first ten games, this deserves a sort of punishment becuase he disappointed the team when they needed him. Farewell D*****binsky, you won't be missed.
Glad to see you aren't overreacting. Oh wait...

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09-18-2009, 04:33 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
Glad to see you aren't overreacting. Oh wait...
HAHAHA not me...

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09-18-2009, 04:35 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Voros is not a cap casualty. He is a talent casualty. Sather decided to give Voros and Rissmiller 3 year contracts worth $3 million. On what planet are those players worth $1 million per?

One less forward position if Dubinsky returns?
Well, we all know that Glen isn't exactly the best at evaluating talent. In what world is Redden worth $6.5 million? And, yes, I understand the market often dictates the price of the contract but at some point you have to ask yourself "Is Wade Redden a $6.5 million player at this point in his career?" He should have let Calgary sign him and move on.

And those Voros and Rissmiller contracts have and always will piss me off until we are rid of them. It just goes to show that Glen can't even do the little things right. With Betts and Sjostrom under contract last year, was it really necessary to sign Voros and Rissmiller at all? The $3 million for 3 years is just icing on the cake. I think he made a mistake with some of the numbers there, which is not surprising considering that he doesn't even know when the RFA signing deadline is...

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09-18-2009, 04:38 PM
  #88
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Glad to see you aren't overreacting. Oh wait...
Yeah I know right LOL.

I've made my points on the subject of dubinsky, but to be honest, this whole situation hasnt really bothered me like it has for other 90% of fans on this board. I love dubinsky and how he plays the game, BUT to be honest he just isnt a guy that I feel is worth getting so crazy over. He has only put up 41 and 40 points the last two seasons. And I know he is still very young and hes only played 2 full seasons in the NHL but the fact that he's holding out trying to justify that kind of production is just silly. I dont blame him for wanting a little more money, but to holdout for it when you dont have leverage as if you are some version of alex ovechkin, or to a lesser extent phil kessel, I find it pretty damn silly. Contrary to what many think, I believe he is very replaceable regardless of the intangibles he's brought to the table. Because frankly, we have enough guys that bring the "intangibles" factor to the table that having dubinsky isnt a glaring necessity. Now sure I'd love to keep him around because he plays hard, he loves NY, and he has those intangibles, but if he left I'd be able to live with that and watch the rangers organization either replace him from within, through the draft, or via trade or free agency. Dubinsky just isnt that special type of player that doesnt come around too often. He does, and this can be seen in the likes of callahan, drury, and even ryan borque.

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09-18-2009, 05:07 PM
  #89
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Yeah I know right LOL.

I've made my points on the subject of dubinsky, but to be honest, this whole situation hasnt really bothered me like it has for other 90% of fans on this board. I love dubinsky and how he plays the game, BUT to be honest he just isnt a guy that I feel is worth getting so crazy over. He has only put up 41 and 40 points the last two seasons. And I know he is still very young and hes only played 2 full seasons in the NHL but the fact that he's holding out trying to justify that kind of production is just silly. I dont blame him for wanting a little more money, but to holdout for it when you dont have leverage as if you are some version of alex ovechkin, or to a lesser extent phil kessel, I find it pretty damn silly. Contrary to what many think, I believe he is very replaceable regardless of the intangibles he's brought to the table. Because frankly, we have enough guys that bring the "intangibles" factor to the table that having dubinsky isnt a glaring necessity. Now sure I'd love to keep him around because he plays hard, he loves NY, and he has those intangibles, but if he left I'd be able to live with that and watch the rangers organization either replace him from within, through the draft, or via trade or free agency. Dubinsky just isnt that special type of player that doesnt come around too often. He does, and this can be seen in the likes of callahan, drury, and even ryan borque.
This is exactly why I find it so incredibly retarded. Trust me I'm not as mad about it as my post seems because when they're playing I don't even think aout him so he really isn't a Ranger right now. With that said however, this is why it's getting people mad. Based on his point production, and the stage of his career he is in he should not be pulling this c***. I can understand it a little more if Jagr did it in his prime, or Ovechkin did it, but like you said Dubinsky is VERY replaceable and by far not in the same league as anyone who could be in a postion to hold out, hence the anger by people, and hence me calling him immature and childish.

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09-18-2009, 05:12 PM
  #90
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This is exactly why I find it so incredibly retarded. Trust me I'm not as mad about it as my post seems because when they're playing I don't even think aout him so he really isn't a Ranger right now. With that said however, this is why it's getting people mad. Based on his point production, and the stage of his career he is in he should not be pulling this c***. I can understand it a little more if Jagr did it in his prime, or Ovechkin did it, but like you said Dubinsky is VERY replaceable and by far not in the same league as anyone who could be in a postion to hold out, hence the anger by people, and hence me calling him immature and childish.
The irrational anger and name-calling towards Dubinsky over a situation that has nothing to do with you or any other fans is a little immature and childish as well.

At least you are consistent in your beliefs, though, and will continue to hate on Dubinsky even if he signs with the Rangers. After some of the things you've said about him, it would be pretty embarassing to openly embrace him now...

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09-18-2009, 05:12 PM
  #91
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This is exactly why I find it so incredibly retarded. Trust me I'm not as mad about it as my post seems because when they're playing I don't even think aout him so he really isn't a Ranger right now. With that said however, this is why it's getting people mad. Based on his point production, and the stage of his career he is in he should not be pulling this c***. I can understand it a little more if Jagr did it in his prime, or Ovechkin did it, but like you said Dubinsky is VERY replaceable and by far not in the same league as anyone who could be in a postion to hold out, hence the anger by people, and hence me calling him immature and childish.
You've been referring to him as D****binsky.

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09-18-2009, 05:13 PM
  #92
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he could tear up a knee tomorrow and have to retire

this is a kid with what might sorta pass for a high school education thru the CHL "edumacation" system.

he's likely not qualified to do anything other than play hockey

this isn't about the here and now it's about his future and protecting that future. he's not close to the NHLPA pension

who the bloody **** are all of you to say what he should and shouldn't do with his life? he should get paid the most he possibly can.

like any of your opinions matter. yes he's betraying YOU personally by trying to get a better contract. dinks.

get over yourselves. such ridiculous whining tilts the hell out of me

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09-18-2009, 05:17 PM
  #93
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AUTO-GENERATED CAPGEEK.COM LINES
FORWARDS
Marian Gaborik ($7.500m) / Chris Drury ($7.050m) / Ales Kotalik ($3.000m)
Ryan Callahan ($2.300m) / Chris Higgins ($2.250m) / * Brandon Dubinsky ($2.150m)
Sean Avery ($1.938m) / Donald Brashear ($1.400m) / Vaclav Prospal ($1.150m)
Artem Anisimov ($0.822m) / Enver Lisin ($0.790m) / Brian Boyle ($0.525m)
Pierre-Alexandre Parenteau ($0.500m)
DEFENSEMEN
Wade Redden ($6.500m) / Michal Rozsival ($5.000m)
Matt Gilroy ($1.750m) / Daniel Girardi ($1.550m)
Michael Del Zotto ($1.087m) / * semenov ($1.000m)
Marc Staal ($0.827m)
GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($6.875m) / Steve Valiquette ($0.725m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
ROSTER: 22; PAYROLL: $56.688m; CAP ROOM: $0.324m BONUSES: $0.212m

i like this team

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09-18-2009, 05:23 PM
  #94
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Even if Dubinsky does sign for 1 or 2 seasons, he won't be back after that.

And I keep reiterating, it doesn't matter how much Dubinsky is worth. The CBA stipulates that the team has all of the leverage in this situation for the very reason that they'll lose all their good young players so soon. The whole point of RFA status is so teams won't lose their good young players too soon. Dubinsky is trying to cheat the system and he will lose.

Mother ****er thinks he's a UFA and can command market value? Give me a break. You're an RFA and you're bound by the same rules EVERY OTHER RFA IS BOUND BY.

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09-18-2009, 05:30 PM
  #95
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The irrational anger and name-calling towards Dubinsky over a situation that has nothing to do with you or any other fans is a little immature and childish as well.

At least you are consistent in your beliefs, though, and will continue to hate on Dubinsky even if he signs with the Rangers. After some of the things you've said about him, it would be pretty embarassing to openly embrace him now...
Yea it is childish I'm calling him D****binsky, and I probably shouldn;t so I guess I'll stop doing that to at least make my claims look legitimate. I used to like Dubinsky though, I thought he was good and would be a good player for us a couple years back. In fact, a part of me wants to say this is all part of the CBA and he is trying to get the best deal possible but when the best deal possible is interfering with the Rangers Organization trying to run a team, then it does become a problem. I don't care what he would do if he wasn't playing hockey because it was his choice to not get an "edumaction," but like everyone is saying this is a business and this business is interfering with the team.

A part of me still likes Dubinsky as a player, and the sooner they get this done, and the more he tries to minimize the time he misses, I might be able to build up some respect for him again. But that is based solely on the claims that he goes out there and does his job, not act like he's twelve by being a nausence to the team as a whole.

I want to like him again as a player, and the sooner he can come back then the less my feelings towards these events will be. People should know how much I hate Sather by now, but I do blame both of them for the way they handled these negiotiations, just like I wanted Zherdev back for the betterment of the team I hope in time Dubinsky can come back and win over the fans that he has lost.

P.S. I know we have no say in this matter, but as die hard Ranger fans we have the right to voice our displeasure about how he is making a mockery of the team, and causing a distraction.

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09-18-2009, 05:31 PM
  #96
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he could tear up a knee tomorrow and have to retire

this is a kid with what might sorta pass for a high school education thru the CHL "edumacation" system.

he's likely not qualified to do anything other than play hockey

this isn't about the here and now it's about his future and protecting that future. he's not close to the NHLPA pension

who the bloody **** are all of you to say what he should and shouldn't do with his life? he should get paid the most he possibly can.

like any of your opinions matter. yes he's betraying YOU personally by trying to get a better contract. dinks.

get over yourselves. such ridiculous whining tilts the hell out of me
Then no crying either when Glen only offers what he offers. The offer that's out there is damn near close to getting paid the most he possibly can.

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09-18-2009, 05:34 PM
  #97
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I'd much, much rather have him at 2 years/2 mil per than 1 year at 1.1.
The more training camp he misses the more I am willing to go for one year. What if he never gets that chemistry with Gaborik that everybody is hoping for. Missing training camp defintely does not help it. Considering Del Zotto got 1.08 million deal and is a rookie and Paul Crowder got 975,000, you would think Dubinsky would be worth that much.


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09-18-2009, 05:42 PM
  #98
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Axn...

the real concern for Dubi is Prospal centering Gaborik and developing chemistry and thus no need for Dubi to be Gabby's centerman. He could then find himself with Avery and Cally on a third line (which would not look like such a bad line - actually a pretty darn good one).

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09-18-2009, 05:46 PM
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the real concern for Dubi is Prospal centering Gaborik and developing chemistry and thus no need for Dubi to be Gabby's centerman. He could then find himself with Avery and Cally on a third line (which would not look like such a bad line - actually a pretty darn good one).
Would be a very good line but not sure if he gets the same ice time from the third line. That is why 1.1 for one year is better from the team point of view.

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09-18-2009, 05:52 PM
  #100
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Even if Dubinsky does sign for 1 or 2 seasons, he won't be back after that.

And I keep reiterating, it doesn't matter how much Dubinsky is worth. The CBA stipulates that the team has all of the leverage in this situation for the very reason that they'll lose all their good young players so soon. The whole point of RFA status is so teams won't lose their good young players too soon. Dubinsky is trying to cheat the system and he will lose.

Mother ****er thinks he's a UFA and can command market value? Give me a break. You're an RFA and you're bound by the same rules EVERY OTHER RFA IS BOUND BY.
Dubinsky will be a Ranger for at least 4 more year unless the Rangers choose otherwise.

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Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
The point is that there are guys on this team where Slats had no problem with throwing a couple 100k extra to sign them, even though it wasn't necessary. Yet, a guy who's worth trying to keep, isn't worth throwing a couple 100k extra towards? Where's the logic?
It's an interesting point but for every UFA that signs in New York, there are others who do not sign. That last 100K can often tip the scales. If you think Sather is chronically bidding against himself, I doubt you are right.

Remember, it costs more to play in New York. Taxes, housing, food and even babysitters cost a lot more. I had a player tell me that he took a significant salary cut when he was traded to New York because of the cost of living.


Last edited by bobbop: 09-18-2009 at 05:58 PM.
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