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Old
09-18-2009, 10:31 AM
  #76
DOGSTARMAN
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We'll bring this old adage out once again. "The point is to separate the man from the puck, not to separate the man from the game."

That came out of the days of old-time, rugged hockey. And it should still apply today.

You can hit a guy very hard and effectively without it resulting in a trip to the hospital. The fact that the same guy keeps laying out these hits says more about him than the opposing players "with their heads down." To me, it is the embodiment of the "predatory hit." Preying on someone who makes a mistake to the degree that it results in serious injury.

The fact that he won't answer the bell also says a lot about him and his respect for the game and opponent. Bryan Marchment was known for his damaging hits, many of which were at best right on the edge and some of which were almost certainly over the edge. But Marchment answered the bell virtually every time by my recollection and the way he comported himself after laying somebody out makes it clear he knew the code and played by it.

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09-18-2009, 10:36 AM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Eye View Post
We'll bring this old adage out once again. "The point is to separate the man from the puck, not to separate the man from the game."

That came out of the days of old-time, rugged hockey. And it should still apply today.

You can hit a guy very hard and effectively without it resulting in a trip to the hospital. The fact that the same guy keeps laying out these hits says more about him than the opposing players "with their heads down." To me, it is the embodiment of the "predatory hit." Preying on someone who makes a mistake to the degree that it results in serious injury.

The fact that he won't answer the bell also says a lot about him and his respect for the game and opponent. Bryan Marchment was known for his damaging hits, many of which were at best right on the edge and some of which were almost certainly over the edge. But Marchment answered the bell virtually every time by my recollection and the way he comported himself after laying somebody out makes it clear he knew the code and played by it.
That is by far the weakest part of all this. He wanted no part in any of the stir he pretty much caused...

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Old
09-18-2009, 10:40 AM
  #78
Jack Donaghy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Eye View Post
We'll bring this old adage out once again. "The point is to separate the man from the puck, not to separate the man from the game."

That came out of the days of old-time, rugged hockey. And it should still apply today.

You can hit a guy very hard and effectively without it resulting in a trip to the hospital. The fact that the same guy keeps laying out these hits says more about him than the opposing players "with their heads down." To me, it is the embodiment of the "predatory hit." Preying on someone who makes a mistake to the degree that it results in serious injury.

The fact that he won't answer the bell also says a lot about him and his respect for the game and opponent. Bryan Marchment was known for his damaging hits, many of which were at best right on the edge and some of which were almost certainly over the edge. But Marchment answered the bell virtually every time by my recollection and the way he comported himself after laying somebody out makes it clear he knew the code and played by it.


Exactly. 100% agreed, especially on both bolded parts.

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Old
09-18-2009, 10:42 AM
  #79
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Worst part is he might have avoided the hit if he wasn't bumped.

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Old
09-18-2009, 10:55 AM
  #80
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Just my two cents, but i don't think this is a scott stevens type hit, result was similar but stevens was usually solid on the ice when drilling people not jumping into them as the queen of mean (phaneuf) does.Had Phaneuf not gone sailing though the air it would have been a heck of a hit. Again, just my opinion, but i have little respect for phaneuf.

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09-18-2009, 11:07 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by 3rdMangHigh View Post
Just my two cents, but i don't think this is a scott stevens type hit, result was similar but stevens was usually solid on the ice when drilling people not jumping into them as the queen of mean (phaneuf) does.Had Phaneuf not gone sailing though the air it would have been a heck of a hit. Again, just my opinion, but i have little respect for phaneuf.
I haven't slowed it down frame-by-frame yet, but it's so hard to tell with big hits whether his feet leave the ice as part of the hit or if they do as a result of the force of the collision.

Look at Lucic's hit through the glass on Van Ryn last season: He clearly left his feet a little bit. It's hard to tell where the line is, and often times it's unfortunately decided by the extent of harm caused.

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Old
09-18-2009, 11:15 AM
  #82
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agreed, maybe the only differance is my like/dislike of the players in question

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Old
09-18-2009, 03:17 PM
  #83
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Phaneuf spends the summer is the community where I live and the general consensus is the guys an idiot!

Personally I don't see how a guy who's clearly going to be on the team this year need to make a hit like that. Clean or dirty it's just not necessary for Phaneuf to hit like that in pre season.

He's going to get what's coming to him one of these days! I'm hoping Lucic gets a piece of him!!

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Old
09-18-2009, 04:12 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by LSCII View Post
Why is this a clean hit, yet when Tubert did basically the same thing in a hit on Jordan Caron during Team Canada's camp, it was dirty?
Preseason game versus basically a practice. Want Looch lining up Zack Hamil at training camp?

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Old
09-18-2009, 04:44 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Eye View Post
We'll bring this old adage out once again. "The point is to separate the man from the puck, not to separate the man from the game."

That came out of the days of old-time, rugged hockey. And it should still apply today.

You can hit a guy very hard and effectively without it resulting in a trip to the hospital. The fact that the same guy keeps laying out these hits says more about him than the opposing players "with their heads down." To me, it is the embodiment of the "predatory hit." Preying on someone who makes a mistake to the degree that it results in serious injury.
Problem with that is, Scott Stevens, he's celebrated for his hits. He did it for years and pretty much set the standard for these types of hits. He did it routinely, and most of the time when he hurt someone the target player was distracted, with Stevens coming through like a bowling ball on static pins. Almost always shoulder to head.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U7jUbKQYdw

Until the NHL says it's illegal, it's a clean hit. My only fear is if they made it illegal, how would they enforce it? How would it effect the game? If you're committed to a hit and the guy has his head down, what then? These guys are coming in like they're going to throw a hip check, yet leading w/ shoulder. Obvious intention is to connect w/ the shoulder.

I do agree it comes down to respect, some of these headshots aren't mistakes. Neely was the hardest hitter I ever saw, rarely did he put his shoulder into someones face. Different situations, obviously being a forward. He got you off balance shoulder to shoulder, and then shoved you with his arms in one motion. It did the job, he turned people into human projectiles, and rarely was anyone seriously hurt. This is how kids should be taught to throw a hit. Just my opinion.

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Old
09-18-2009, 04:49 PM
  #86
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Clean or dirty? IDK. But it's not a hit I like to see. There's a difference between playing a tough game and playing a cheap game. I consider that "cheap" even if it isn't a penalty.

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Old
09-18-2009, 04:52 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely08 View Post
Problem with that is, Scott Stevens, he's celebrated for his hits. He did it for years and pretty much set the standard for these types of hits. He did it routinely, and most of the time when he hurt someone the target player was distracted, with Stevens coming through like a bowling ball on static pins. Almost always shoulder to head.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U7jUbKQYdw

Until the NHL says it's illegal, it's a clean hit. My only fear is if they made it illegal, how would they enforce it? How would it effect the game? If you're committed to a hit and the guy has his head down, what then? These guys are coming in like they're going to throw a hip check, yet leading w/ shoulder. Obvious intention is to connect w/ the shoulder.

I do agree it comes down to respect, some of these headshots aren't mistakes. Neely was the hardest hitter I ever saw, rarely did he put his shoulder into someones face. Different situations, obviously being a forward. He got you off balance shoulder to shoulder, and then shoved you with his arms in one motion. It did the job, he turned people into human projectiles, and rarely was anyone seriously hurt. This is how kids should be taught to throw a hit. Just my opinion.
I disagree. Most of Stevens' hits were shoulder to chest/clavicle.

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Old
09-18-2009, 04:59 PM
  #88
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two things...

1) don't know if this was mentioned already but that guy morency who jumped off the bench and went after Phaneuf was suspended indefintely today by the nhl http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=499008

2) calgary and the isles play again tomorrow. a lot of the islanders players and coaches said they don't forget things like that, so how dirty do you think this game will be? haha. I'm hoping Phaneuf has to answer for tht hit, although i think it was clean for the most part you cant hit someone like that and knock them out without stepping up and answering for it. I know rechlicz didn't play the other night, Im thinking hes in the lineup and goes after Phaneuf at some point during the game

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09-18-2009, 05:03 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Krejcpiece View Post
two things...

1) don't know if this was mentioned already but that guy morency who jumped off the bench and went after Phaneuf was suspended indefintely today by the nhl http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=499008

2) calgary and the isles play again tomorrow. a lot of the islanders players and coaches said they don't forget things like that, so how dirty do you think this game will be? haha. I'm hoping Phaneuf has to answer for tht hit, although i think it was clean for the most part you cant hit someone like that and knock them out without stepping up and answering for it. I know rechlicz didn't play the other night, Im thinking hes in the lineup and goes after Phaneuf at some point during the game
Knowing the NHL, I'm sure they'll have words with both teams before the game... because what fan wants to see fights and emotion and stuff? It's preseason man...fans pay to come and see the stars of tomorrow!!

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Old
09-18-2009, 05:14 PM
  #90
Morris Wanchuk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely08 View Post
Problem with that is, Scott Stevens, he's celebrated for his hits. He did it for years and pretty much set the standard for these types of hits. He did it routinely, and most of the time when he hurt someone the target player was distracted, with Stevens coming through like a bowling ball on static pins. Almost always shoulder to head.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U7jUbKQYdw

Until the NHL says it's illegal, it's a clean hit. My only fear is if they made it illegal, how would they enforce it? How would it effect the game? If you're committed to a hit and the guy has his head down, what then? These guys are coming in like they're going to throw a hip check, yet leading w/ shoulder. Obvious intention is to connect w/ the shoulder.

I do agree it comes down to respect, some of these headshots aren't mistakes. Neely was the hardest hitter I ever saw, rarely did he put his shoulder into someones face. Different situations, obviously being a forward. He got you off balance shoulder to shoulder, and then shoved you with his arms in one motion. It did the job, he turned people into human projectiles, and rarely was anyone seriously hurt. This is how kids should be taught to throw a hit. Just my opinion.


Scott Stevens had smaller shoulder pads than players today. Its the pads that make these hits look like the player is dead.

Notice in that video, as his career went on, each player stayed on the ice for longer? Did Scott Stevens develop this super hitting power as he aged? No, his shoulder pads got bigger.

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Old
09-18-2009, 05:17 PM
  #91
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>>2) calgary and the isles play again tomorrow. a lot of the islanders players and coaches said they don't forget things like that, so how dirty do you think this game will be? haha. I'm hoping Phaneuf has to answer for tht hit, although i think it was clean for the most part you cant hit someone like that and knock them out without stepping up and answering for it. I know rechlicz didn't play the other night, Im thinking hes in the lineup and goes after Phaneuf at some point during the game

Find it hard to believe Phaneuf will play in that game.

The Islanders have a lot of toughness in their system. If they want to ice a certain kind of lineup, havoc will ensue.

The NHL will preempt this...

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Old
09-18-2009, 05:22 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VeddarRants View Post
I disagree. Most of Stevens' hits were shoulder to chest/clavicle.
In that video I posted, every hit where a guy is out cold on the ice (i.e. Lindros, Kariya, Kozlov) it's shoulder to head. Only he knows if it's intentional or not. In Steven's defense, at least in the Lindros hit for example, 88 is leading with his face.

I like the Daneko one the best.

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Old
09-18-2009, 05:27 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely08 View Post
In that video I posted, every hit where a guy is out cold on the ice (i.e. Lindros, Kariya, Kozlov) it's shoulder to head. Only he knows if it's intentional or not. In Steven's defense, at least in the Lindros hit for example, 88 is leading with his face.

I like the Daneko one the best.
Funny all those you mentioned occurred later in his career, when players were wearing larger shoulder pads.

Give every player in the NHL Brendan Shanahan shoulder/elbow pads and concussions go way down.

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Old
09-18-2009, 05:41 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Morris Wanchuk View Post
Scott Stevens had smaller shoulder pads than players today. Its the pads that make these hits look like the player is dead.

Notice in that video, as his career went on, each player stayed on the ice for longer? Did Scott Stevens develop this super hitting power as he aged? No, his shoulder pads got bigger.
As that video goes on, look at where he's making contact. That's why they're on the ice watching head movies. He's also lining up guys that are engaged with his defense partner, like he has them in a kill zone.

I don't care if you play with cotton balls glued to your shoulders. If you're moving forward on skates, and your face collides with a player's shoulder moving into you. And, a player you never saw coming, you're gonna have scrambled eggs.

Whether it's intentional or not is the only part even debatable. That's a tough call. One I don't currently trust to on ice officials to make in real time, nor do I want every hit reviewed, then accessed. It would be a nightmare.

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Old
09-18-2009, 09:51 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Bruinster View Post
Hope Okposo is ok, but it look real bad.

Clean hit , A scott Stevens hit.

But Like I said often clean hit in the NHL standard, but in my eyes very dirty, it was clear Phaneuf want his head he made 3 or 4 strides to hit him at the center ice.
Clean or not. Phaneuf is not battling for a job and should have more class than that. I suspect his head better be up playing the Islanders this year. Cheap move.

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Old
09-18-2009, 10:25 PM
  #96
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Wow Phaneuf, what a nice hit on an off balance forward who is stumbling. You're a real hero. Even had time to line up the head shot for extra points. I'm sure Calgary fans think you're real awesome and stuff. Try to step it up though during the regular season, the NHL really needs more heroic stuff like this. I was especially taken back by your courageous show of honor after the hit.

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Old
09-18-2009, 11:44 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely08 View Post
In that video I posted, every hit where a guy is out cold on the ice (i.e. Lindros, Kariya, Kozlov) it's shoulder to head. Only he knows if it's intentional or not. In Steven's defense, at least in the Lindros hit for example, 88 is leading with his face.

I like the Daneko one the best.
The Kariya hit was cheap and dirty and he should have been given a 5 minute match penalty.

It was WELL after Kariya had made the pass. Enough time to stop, slow up, avoid total contact. That hit was despicable and Stevens was the dirtiest player to ever get a total pass on that fact.

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Old
09-18-2009, 11:45 PM
  #98
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And this looked dirty too. Took 3 steps, shoulder to head, and possibly left his feet.

Also, I thought he looked real tough skating backwards while 3 teammates came to his rescue.

Oh, but then he DID fight with his visor on.

Punk.

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