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Jessiman injured / sent to hospital

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Old
11-15-2004, 12:27 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by JR#9
Oh, Prucha, Prucha, Prucha...

I'm convinced you just want to be the counterpoint all the time.

Todd Bertuzzi remained in JUNIORS for 2 yrs after he was drafted and then played in the minors before getting called up and it wasn't until his THIRD season in Vancouver that he started putting it all together.

Bill Guerin stayed also stayed at COLLEGE another 2 yrs after being drafted and the played in the AHL for another 2 years and then he still developed slowly as a NJD before breaking out for 30.

You calling Jessiman a bust because he didn't make the jump ala a Tkachuk, Heatley , Lindros or a Sundin is just a ridiculous and has no basis in reality what so ever.
Not to mention, Shane Doan and John LeClaire.

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11-15-2004, 12:34 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway
Not to mention, Shane Doan and John LeClaire.
what about adam graves?

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11-15-2004, 12:37 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner
what about adam graves?
Yeah, that's another one who took a while to really blossom.

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11-15-2004, 12:37 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway
Not to mention, Shane Doan and John LeClaire.
Exactly....who here thought that Jessiman would/should be a guy putting up very significant numbers at the NHL level 2 yrs out of being drafted??

Nobody, that who because if he was pegged as a guy who could've stepped up and put up #'s like a Tkachuk, Lindros or a Sundin did their rookie years he would've likely been the #ONE overall picks as Lindros and Sundin were in their draft years.

Hugh is a kid who has all the tools and phenomanal size to go with his skating and hands BUT everybody knew he would take time to develop as he skated vs inferior talent in his HS years.

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11-15-2004, 12:39 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR#9
Oh, Prucha, Prucha, Prucha...

I'm convinced you just want to be the counterpoint all the time.

Todd Bertuzzi remained in JUNIORS for 2 yrs after he was drafted and then played in the minors before getting called up and it wasn't until his THIRD season in Vancouver that he started putting it all together.

Bill Guerin stayed also stayed at COLLEGE another 2 yrs after being drafted and the played in the AHL for another 2 years and then he still developed slowly as a NJD before breaking out for 30.

You calling Jessiman a bust because he didn't make the jump ala a Tkachuk, Heatley , Lindros or a Sundin is just a ridiculous and has no basis in reality what so ever.
When did I call him a bust? Point is I provided plenty of evidence to make my case, you just mentioned 2 players that took longer to develop and made up some story about Bertuzzi playing in the minors before being called up :lol You have a good imagination. So where are these numerous powerforwards that take so long to develop? The point is it is a myth and a cliche, not a rule and not a fact. Big players take longer to grow into their frames, but it does not mean it takes them longer to start producing in NHL.

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11-15-2004, 12:45 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway
Not to mention, Shane Doan and John LeClaire.

so we have Doan, LeClair, Bertuzzi, Graves, Guerin, Murray, etc. who developed at 23 or later

versus

Nash, Ruuttu, Daze, Arnott, Lindros, Smyth, Tkachuk, Forsberg, Roenick, Nolan, Sundin, Primeau, Holik, Peca, Allison, Heatley, Iginla, Deadmarsh, Linden, Brind'Amour, Handzus, Ricci, Thornton, Marleau, Lecavalier, Shanahan, etc. who developed at 22 or earlier.

Very convincing argument you have.


Last edited by Prucha73: 11-15-2004 at 01:22 PM.
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11-15-2004, 12:53 PM
  #82
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You've stated both here and on the other site that your ridiculed on that more and more Hugh is looking like the bust you'd thought he'd be.

As for Bertuzzi, he played his 1st 13 games his rookie yrs in the IHL before getting called up the the Isles who were a joke of a team at that point.And that's after TWO yrs of remaining in juniors big guy.

People just threw out names like Bertuzzi, Graves, Guerin, Leclair, Murray, Shane Doan and here's one more to the mix that took time to develop...Cam Neely...I'm sure Vancouver has plenty of guys like you that felt he didn't light it up fast enough to start his NHL career and thus the trade to Boston.

How did that one turn out for all those people?

But since he doesn't campare to a bunch of guys you listed who are absolute superstars and many of whom were FIRST overall picks he certainly must be a bust right Prucha?

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11-15-2004, 01:02 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prucha73
so we have Doan, LeClair, Bertuzzi, Graves and Guerin who developed at 23 or later

versus

Nash, Ruuttu, Daze, Arnott, Lindros, Smyth, Tkachuk, Forsberg, Roenick, Nolan, Sundin, Primeau, Holik, Peca, Allison, Heatley, Iginla, Deadmarsh, Linden, Brind'Amour, Handzus, etc. who developed at 22 or earlier.

Very convincing argument you have.
Handzus? :lol That wouldn't be the same Handzus who was drafted in '95 but didn't play in the AHL until '98 would it??And the year after that he struggled to get a point every other game???

Allison was traded and didn't put up #'s right away.

Nash, Nolan, Sundin, Lindros were ALL FIRST OVERALL PICKS.

Heatley and Linden #2 overall.

Primeau, and Peca all put up great #'s their 1st few years??Better check that one.

Peca didn't even come into the league until another 2 yrs in JUNIOR and then struggled to put up points before being traded to Buff and Prims was a #3 overall pick that needed a yr in the AHL and 2 or 3 in the NHL before he started putting up significant #'s.

Bottom line is before you start chestthumping your side of the arguement and how weak our side is maybe, just maybe you should do alittle reasearch so your "logic" Can't be ripped apart quite so easily.

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11-15-2004, 01:06 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR#9
You've stated both here and on the other site that your ridiculed on that more and more Hugh is looking like the bust you'd thought he'd be.

As for Bertuzzi, he played his 1st 13 games his rookie yrs in the IHL before getting called up the the Isles who were a joke of a team at that point.And that's after TWO yrs of remaining in juniors big guy.

People just threw out names like Bertuzzi, Graves, Guerin, Leclair, Murray, Shane Doan and here's one more to the mix that took time to develop...Cam Neely...I'm sure Vancouver has plenty of guys like you that felt he didn't light it up fast enough to start his NHL career and thus the trade to Boston.

How did that one turn out for all those people?

But since he doesn't campare to a bunch of guys you listed who are absolute superstars and many of whom were FIRST overall picks he certainly must be a bust right Prucha?
Yes I always thought he will be a bust, but he isn't yet, there is a big difference.

You better check your Bertuzzi stats again, (hint: look closely at the years) Also remember which GM drafted Bertuzzi and who was the GM when he was there for most of the time.

Neely scored 21 goals as a 19 yearold and 36 goals as a 21 yearold, being traded has nothing to do with anything, there is no rule that you have to trade away a 20 yearold because he had a sophmore slump.

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11-15-2004, 01:14 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR#9
Handzus? :lol That wouldn't be the same Handzus who was drafted in '95 but didn't play in the AHL until '98 would it??And the year after that he struggled to get a point every other game???

Allison was traded and didn't put up #'s right away.

Nash, Nolan, Sundin, Lindros were ALL FIRST OVERALL PICKS.

Heatley and Linden #2 overall.

Primeau, and Peca all put up great #'s their 1st few years??Better check that one.

Peca didn't even come into the league until another 2 yrs in JUNIOR and then struggled to put up points before being traded to Buff and Prims was a #3 overall pick that needed a yr in the AHL and 2 or 3 in the NHL before he started putting up significant #'s.

Bottom line is before you start chestthumping your side of the arguement and how weak our side is maybe, just maybe you should do alittle reasearch so your "logic" Can't be ripped apart quite so easily.
learn how to read, I said they developed at 22 or earlier, to counterpoint that powerforwards take longer to develop and that many of them only develop at 25. So try not to embarrass yourself next time, especially with your research and your logic, best let others have an intelligent argument.

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11-15-2004, 01:19 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prucha73
Yes I always thought he will be a bust, but he isn't yet, there is a big difference.

You better check your Bertuzzi stats again, (hint: look closely at the years) Also remember which GM drafted Bertuzzi and who was the GM when he was there for most of the time.
.
In your book he's already a bust and that's why your throwing out every superstar to play the game to push your opinion to be other people's reality when it certainly is not the case.

You can't site #1 and #2 overall players who were the best talent available in their respective draft years and hold Hugh up to their standards b/c he isn't a player on that level and may never be.

Does that make him a bust??

If he turns out like a Guerin or a Doan I'd be overjoyed.

You keep riding him for not being a 19 yr old Lindros or Forsberg.

And as far as who Bert's GM was, who gives a F?Look at who our GM is!!!

Todd's deal was he was a very talented player when drafted who obviously didn't have his whole package put together in his early years and took some time to figure out how to make his skills and size work to his advantage for him and Hugh is in a similar boat.

Todd took many years to make it happen and Hugh may take just as long or not reach that level at all but at THIS point your calls for bust are nothing short of ridiculous.

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11-15-2004, 01:31 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR#9
In your book he's already a bust and that's why your throwing out every superstar to play the game to push your opinion to be other people's reality when it certainly is not the case.

You can't site #1 and #2 overall players who were the best talent available in their respective draft years and hold Hugh up to their standards b/c he isn't a player on that level and may never be.

Does that make him a bust??

If he turns out like a Guerin or a Doan I'd be overjoyed.

You keep riding him for not being a 19 yr old Lindros or Forsberg.

And as far as who Bert's GM was, who gives a F?Look at who our GM is!!!

Todd's deal was he was a very talented player when drafted who obviously didn't have his whole package put together in his early years and took some time to figure out how to make his skills and size work to his advantage for him and Hugh is in a similar boat.

Todd took many years to make it happen and Hugh may take just as long or not reach that level at all but at THIS point your calls for bust are nothing short of ridiculous.
I see you like to twist things around and stir some . Point is I was naming every powerforward I could think of that developed before 23, regardless of his draft position. And I have no idea what this has to do with Jessiman. My point was that it is simply BS that a powerforward has to take longer time to develop. And yes apparently most powerforwards in NHL were high draftpicks, but so is Jessiman, so what is your point?


Last edited by SingnBluesOnBroadway: 11-15-2004 at 02:19 PM.
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11-15-2004, 02:00 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prucha73
I see you like to twist things around and stir some s#!t. Point is I was naming every powerforward I could think of that developed before 23, regardless of his draft position. And I have no idea what this has to do with Jessiman. My point was that it is simply BS that a powerforward has to take longer time to develop. And yes apparently most powerforwards in NHL were high draftpicks, but so is Jessiman, so what is your point?
how many times have you seen jessiman play? if you don't think it takes longer for powerforwards to develop than maybe you are talking about basketball because in hockey it takes a few years.

jessiman is a project something the rangers said from the day he was drafted

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11-15-2004, 02:09 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prucha73
Point is I was naming every powerforward I could think of that developed before 23, regardless of his draft position.
Your list is limited to only the upper, UPPER echelon of players. You only have the very best of the very best and the others are either the top overall pick or the second overall pick, who are rapidly heading to those levels. As such, your field is skewed and limited. The chances of ANY first round pick of turning into ANY of the players whom you name is very, very slim.
You have to broaden the field to include the likes of Glen Murray if you want to be honest with yourself.

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11-15-2004, 02:11 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner
how many times have you seen jessiman play? if you don't think it takes longer for powerforwards to develop than maybe you are talking about basketball because in hockey it takes a few years.

jessiman is a project something the rangers said from the day he was drafted
Exactly.NOBODY was calling this kid Lindros coming in.It was well acknowledged that this would be a process bringing this kid along.

Only problem Prucha has is he "read a scouting report somewhere......." as always.

According to this guy Montoya is a bum, Korpikoski a wasted pick, Hugh a sure fire bust and that is always followed with we should've taken Tukonen or Zajac or anybody but who we took but the fact that he has never once seen any of these kids is just what makes it all so amusing.


Last edited by JR#9*: 11-15-2004 at 02:19 PM.
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