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Round 2, Vote 7 (2009 update)

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Old
09-18-2009, 06:08 PM
  #201
lextune
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Some great posts here. I finally caught up on the thread . Joliat and Makarov have both moved up on my list this round as a result.

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09-18-2009, 06:12 PM
  #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lextune View Post
Some great posts here. I finally caught up on the thread . Joliat and Makarov have both moved up on my list this round as a result.
Not that I disagree, but what impressed you about Joliat?

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09-18-2009, 06:19 PM
  #203
lextune
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This was an interesting Joliat post....

Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Three times top-5 in goals and four times top-5 in assists isn't something that's all that common.

For example, four top-5s in assists is an achievement shared by 39 players in total. Three top-5s in goals is an achievement shared by only 65 players.

The list of players to have done both (or better) is as follows:

Gretzky (1), Howe (3), Lemieux (4), Beliveau (7), Morenz (11), Mikita (15), Lafleur (19), Esposito (20), Jagr (23), Taylor (27), Lindsay (30), Dionne (50), Bathgate (56), Bentley (57), Nighbor (likely 71), MacKay (won't come up but should), Fredrickson (won't come up), Morris (won't come up), and Joliat. 19 players in total.


Last edited by lextune: 09-18-2009 at 06:46 PM.
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Old
09-18-2009, 09:12 PM
  #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lextune View Post
This was an interesting Joliat post....
What that tells me is that is was easier to finish Top 5 in the earlier years than it is recently. Aside from Lemieux and Gretzky the only player from the last 20 years on that list is Jagr. You might be able to toss Dionne in there also. There are a bevy of players from pre-70's.

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Old
09-18-2009, 09:55 PM
  #205
Dennis Bonvie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God Bless Canada View Post
Top 10 not up for voting yet:

1. Johnny Bower
2. Busher Jackson
3. Elmer Lach
4. Toe Blake
5. Doug Bentley
6. Bill Gadsby
7. Bill Cowley
8. Alex Delvecchio
9. Chuck Gardiner
10. Gilbert Perreault

(Note: all of them would have been in my top 10 if they were eligible for voting this round).
I'd like to see Firsov, Langway, Keon, Lindros and the Babes. (Seibert & Dye)

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Old
09-18-2009, 10:04 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by FissionFire View Post
What that tells me is that is was easier to finish Top 5 in the earlier years than it is recently. Aside from Lemieux and Gretzky the only player from the last 20 years on that list is Jagr. You might be able to toss Dionne in there also. There are a bevy of players from pre-70's.
I think that is more a factor of the fact that the top five assist leaders, aside from Gretzky, Lemieux and Jagr, aren't finishing in the top five in goals over the last 20 years. Gretzky alone has 25 of the available top 5 spots in goals and assists over his 20 year career. Add in Lemieux, Jagr and the other top assist guys like Oates and Francis, and half your top 5 assist finishes over the last 30 years are probably accounted for.

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Old
09-18-2009, 10:06 PM
  #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God Bless Canada View Post
Top 10 not up for voting yet:

1. Johnny Bower
2. Busher Jackson
3. Elmer Lach
4. Toe Blake
5. Doug Bentley
6. Bill Gadsby
7. Bill Cowley
8. Alex Delvecchio
9. Chuck Gardiner
10. Gilbert Perreault

(Note: all of them would have been in my top 10 if they were eligible for voting this round).
Mines..

Johnny Bower
Scott Stevens
Dave Keon
Frank Nighbor
Anatoli Firsov
Sergei Fedorov
Bill Gadsby
Elmer Lach
Serge Savard
Bernard Parent

None of them really screams Top-10 to me, though Bower, Keon and Nighbor might have ended up there. Jackson and D. Bentley are pretty much 11th and 12th as well.

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Old
09-18-2009, 11:26 PM
  #208
pappyline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God Bless Canada View Post
Top 10 not up for voting yet:

1. Johnny Bower
2. Busher Jackson
3. Elmer Lach
4. Toe Blake
5. Doug Bentley
6. Bill Gadsby
7. Bill Cowley
8. Alex Delvecchio
9. Chuck Gardiner
10. Gilbert Perreault

(Note: all of them would have been in my top 10 if they were eligible for voting this round).
Slightly different order but same players except replace Perrault with keon and yes they would be my top 10 this eound.

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Old
09-19-2009, 12:35 AM
  #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MXD View Post
Mines..

Johnny Bower
Scott Stevens
Dave Keon
Frank Nighbor
Anatoli Firsov
Sergei Fedorov
Bill Gadsby
Elmer Lach
Serge Savard
Bernard Parent

None of them really screams Top-10 to me, though Bower, Keon and Nighbor might have ended up there. Jackson and D. Bentley are pretty much 11th and 12th as well.
mines...

# -- Player -- POS
======================
29 -- Frank Nighbor -- C
47 -- Tiny Thompson -- G
52 -- Georges Vezina -- G
62 -- George Boucher -- D
66 -- Tony Esposito -- G
67 -- Scott Stevens -- D
69 -- George Hainsworth -- G
71 -- Yvan Cournoyer -- RW
72 -- Elmer Lach -- C
75 -- Johnny Bower -- G

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Old
09-19-2009, 12:17 PM
  #210
seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God Bless Canada View Post
Top 10 not up for voting yet:

1. Johnny Bower
2. Busher Jackson
3. Elmer Lach
4. Toe Blake
5. Doug Bentley
6. Bill Gadsby
7. Bill Cowley
8. Alex Delvecchio
9. Chuck Gardiner
10. Gilbert Perreault

(Note: all of them would have been in my top 10 if they were eligible for voting this round).
Just curious, why Delvecchio and not Ullman? Their offensive credentials are very similar, but one played a considerable amount with Howe and one didn't. And although Delvecchio was a good two-way player, I don't believe he had quite the reputation that Ullman did in that regard.

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Old
09-19-2009, 12:43 PM
  #211
Dennis Bonvie
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Just curious, why Delvecchio and not Ullman? Their offensive credentials are very similar, but one played a considerable amount with Howe and one didn't. And although Delvecchio was a good two-way player, I don't believe he had quite the reputation that Ullman did in that regard.
Last night on NHL Network they had a 1965 playoff game between Chicago and Detroit. Wings won 4-2, Ullman had a hat trick and Bobby Hull had a goal and assist.
When Hull got the puck in his own end, it looked like the whole Detroit team just put their heads down and skated as hard as they could hoping someone could get back. Hull could really fly. Also of note was Stan Mikita landing a beautiful elbow right on Ted Lindsay's kisser to spark a scrum.

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Old
09-19-2009, 12:52 PM
  #212
pappyline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Bonvie View Post
Last night on NHL Network they had a 1965 playoff game between Chicago and Detroit. Wings won 4-2, Ullman had a hat trick and Bobby Hull had a goal and assist.
When Hull got the puck in his own end, it looked like the whole Detroit team just put their heads down and skated as hard as they could hoping someone could get back. Hull could really fly. Also of note was Stan Mikita landing a beautiful elbow right on Ted Lindsay's kisser to spark a scrum.
I recorded that game & have so far watched the first 2 periods. Yes, Hull is flying out there. Interestingly, he is playing center with brother Dennis on LW & Maki on the RW. Espo must have been in the dog house that game. I only noticed him out for 1 shift and he ended up with a penalty. I have a copy of the final game of that series (Hawks won) and Espo is back between Hull & Maki.

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Old
09-19-2009, 12:56 PM
  #213
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I sent mine last Sunday because I thought it was the usual Sunday deadline. I was wondering why it was taking FF so long to post the next round, then I realize that the deadline's not until tomorrow.

My top 10 not up yet:

Johnny Bower (44)
Anatoly Firsov (53)
George Hainsworth (61)
Billy Smith (63)
Elmer Lach (66)
Bill Gadsby (67)
Frank Nighbour (68)
Ron Francis (69)
Jack Stewart (70)
Sergei Fedorov (71)

Bower will definitely be my top choice unless Horton somehow doesn't get in this round. Other than that they're all fairly close and I could easily make some changes in the order.

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Old
09-19-2009, 03:57 PM
  #214
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Just a reminder that votes are due tomorrow at midnight.

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Old
09-19-2009, 10:02 PM
  #215
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Hello everyone. I am back from my trip to Costa Rica and ready to talk some hockey!

I am so glad to see that Bobby Hull remained in the top 5 of the list. Give yourselves a pat on the back HoH board members!

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Old
09-19-2009, 10:04 PM
  #216
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Alright, after some thought here is my list:

1) Aurele Joliat
2) Tim Horton
3) Jari Kurri
4) Sprague Cleghorn
5) Sergei Makarov
6) Boris Mikhailov
7) Cy Denneny
8) Ted Kennedy
9) Frank Brimsek
10) Brett Hull
11) Nels Stewart
12) Richard "Dickie" Moore
13) Peter Forsberg
14) Al MacInnis
15) Peter Stastny

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Old
09-19-2009, 11:47 PM
  #217
lextune
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Actual footage of Joliat in action: http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=7130

Amazing.

Lots of amazing old hockey footage on that site in fact: http://www.britishpathe.com/results.php?search=hockey

Thanks to Patrick Houda (via Joe Pelletier) for the heads-up on the site.


Last edited by lextune: 09-19-2009 at 11:53 PM.
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Old
09-20-2009, 02:49 AM
  #218
seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Bonvie View Post
Last night on NHL Network they had a 1965 playoff game between Chicago and Detroit. Wings won 4-2, Ullman had a hat trick and Bobby Hull had a goal and assist.
When Hull got the puck in his own end, it looked like the whole Detroit team just put their heads down and skated as hard as they could hoping someone could get back. Hull could really fly. Also of note was Stan Mikita landing a beautiful elbow right on Ted Lindsay's kisser to spark a scrum.
I watched it too; it was fantastic. Ullman looked excellent, and Hull was by far the fastest player on the ice. Howe and Vasko, average-sized by today's standards, looked huge.

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Old
09-20-2009, 02:52 AM
  #219
seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lextune View Post
Actual footage of Joliat in action: http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=7130

Amazing.

Lots of amazing old hockey footage on that site in fact: http://www.britishpathe.com/results.php?search=hockey

Thanks to Patrick Houda (via Joe Pelletier) for the heads-up on the site.
Wow, that was unreal. I feel privileged to have seen that.

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Old
09-20-2009, 03:52 AM
  #220
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Wow, that was unreal. I feel privileged to have seen that.
Yeah, I felt giddy after watching that. Amazing.

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Old
09-20-2009, 08:46 AM
  #221
lextune
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....and how about Frank Boucher's spin-o-rama goal at the end. Truly amazing to see footage from the 30's like that.

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Old
09-20-2009, 11:40 AM
  #222
Dennis Bonvie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGoldenJet View Post
Alright, after some thought here is my list:

1) Aurele Joliat
2) Tim Horton
3) Jari Kurri
4) Sprague Cleghorn
5) Sergei Makarov
6) Boris Mikhailov
7) Cy Denneny
8) Ted Kennedy
9) Frank Brimsek
10) Brett Hull
11) Nels Stewart
12) Richard "Dickie" Moore
13) Peter Forsberg
14) Al MacInnis
15) Peter Stastny
I had Joliat 14th and Forsberg 2nd.

Can't see Dickie Moore not making it this round.

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Old
09-20-2009, 02:38 PM
  #223
TheGoldenJet
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Its interesting to note that no players on this list have been active since last years vote, so we are shuffling the order from last year.

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Old
09-20-2009, 02:38 PM
  #224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Bonvie View Post
I had Joliat 14th and Forsberg 2nd.

Can't see Dickie Moore not making it this round.
Well to that I would say you severely underrate Joliat, and overrate Forsberg. I assume the votes are all in by now so its a moot point I would think.

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Old
09-20-2009, 03:41 PM
  #225
seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGoldenJet View Post
Its interesting to note that no players on this list have been active since last years vote, so we are shuffling the order from last year.
Nothing's definitive. New info always comes to light, and new perspectives are formed. Some ideas pick up steam, other things begin to be seen as less important.

The updates to the list are not just to reflect modern players moving up by padding their resumes last season.

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