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Phoenix Bankruptcy Part XX: There Will Be Baum

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Old
09-21-2009, 05:59 PM
  #1
Fugu
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Phoenix Bankruptcy Part XX: There Will Be Baum

Hat tip to XavierX for a title good enough to bump one of our own...

Sounds like he'll do something soon (Baum, that is).

Old thread:http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=680160

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Old
09-21-2009, 06:03 PM
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AZCOYOT
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Judge is pissing me off

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Old
09-21-2009, 06:05 PM
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TerminatorBlue
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Wednesday emergency hearing
Thursday one last day for Baum to make his decision
Friday morning he makes his Decision

Friday afternoon Jim Balsillie goes home crying(on the inside).

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Old
09-21-2009, 06:07 PM
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My vote for next thread title is "Coyote Ugly"...

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Old
09-21-2009, 06:07 PM
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David_99
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Apparently you can't even say "Baum" on an airplane anymore.

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Old
09-21-2009, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post

Sounds like he'll do something soon (Baum, that is).
Feh, I'm sticking to my prediction for next Tuesday, +/- 7.5 million years...

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Old
09-21-2009, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by David_99 View Post
Apparently you can't even say "Baum" on an airplane anymore.
Baum Baum Baum, Baum Baum Baum Baum Baum Baum Baum. You gonna arrest me? Baum Baum Baum Baum! During the war I was a BAUMbardier!

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Old
09-21-2009, 06:17 PM
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Crazy_Ike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TerminatorBlue View Post
Wednesday emergency hearing
Thursday one last day for Baum to make his decision
Friday morning he makes his Decision

Friday afternoon Jim Balsillie goes home crying(on the inside).
Book it.

My prediction:

On thursday, Baum rules in favor of the league by virtue of Balsillie not being able to pick and choose what parts of executory contracts he assumes and the league's legal right to choose its partners as established by the NHL constitution. Balsillie's bid is tossed, NHL's stays. However, he leaves open any anti-trust options by bouncing it to a more relevant court.

NHL takes control of the franchise. Balsillie launches an antitrust suit that he eventually loses because relocation was never voted on, but that outcome is about a year or more later.

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Old
09-21-2009, 06:23 PM
  #9
billy blaze
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Daly on Prime Time Sports

-Daly stated in interview November 12, 2008 states there is no veto- continues to believe that- states that Leaf letter is from 2006

- (Melnyk territorial clip played) Daly response is first - Melnyk doesn't know the rules or by-laws on relocation, veto apply to teams coming into area- talk about Mississauga arena and Melnyk playing in Mississauga- Sens would need consent - Daly keeps going on about Melnyk hesitating in his answer- Brunt says don't you think he would know?

-Daly can't answer for Melnyk- he states that you heard him hesitate, he states Melnyk indicated he's not following procedures, Brunt asks don't you think someones who's going to be on the line financially would be following? Daly says can't answer for Melnyk.

-Brunt asks if Leafs have changed mind since 2006, Daly doesn't know what the Leafs stance is-what about other teams stance-Daly tells him to go ask the other 28 teams

- Says mediation only matter in court Wednesday

- Daly says Gretzky not told by leaugue to stay away, Coyotes have made that decision

- hockey decisions in Phoenix (re Hiring of King)- management makes decisions, Moss, Neely, Maloney- they must recommend to both NHL and Moyes, if parties don't agree it goes to court, doesn't think hiring of King because Gretzky not there, Maloney made decision

- Gretzky future - NHL has not accepted his contract, issue as to where Gretzky's contract resides, personal services, NHL not having conversation with Gretzky about future

- talk about Paul Kelly dismissal, he hopes not to have concerns with NHLPA in the future, will depend who they get to lead them

-talk about Dean Warren lawsuit against NHL ( referee who was fired)


Last edited by billy blaze: 09-21-2009 at 06:32 PM.
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Old
09-21-2009, 06:26 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
Book it.

My prediction:

On thursday, Baum rules in favor of the league by virtue of Balsillie not being able to pick and choose what parts of executory contracts he assumes and the league's legal right to choose its partners as established by the NHL constitution. Balsillie's bid is tossed, NHL's stays. However, he leaves open any anti-trust options by bouncing it to a more relevant court.

NHL takes control of the franchise. Balsillie launches an antitrust suit that he eventually loses because relocation was never voted on, but that outcome is about a year or more later.
After re-reading his June decision, I'm of the opinion he won't rule in favor of PSE and Balsillie. I'm currently leaning towards the Judge ruling "No Sale".

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Old
09-21-2009, 06:30 PM
  #11
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I'm currently leaning towards the Judge ruling "No Sale".
How would the creditors feel about that? I'm guessing not so happy. Seeing as how all parties are satisfied enough to back the NHL bid except for Moyes this one should be in the books soon enough. But, again, I agree that if there is a way for Baum to onside kick or punt this, he will find a way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Hat tip to XavierX for a title good enough to bump one of our own...
It's part XX, after all

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Old
09-21-2009, 06:34 PM
  #12
billy blaze
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video from game on September 15, 2009, maybe some of the phoenix people can spot themselves - shouldn't be too hard

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECYkh-Aqfgc

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Old
09-21-2009, 06:34 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TerminatorBlue View Post
Wednesday emergency hearing
Thursday one last day for Baum to make his decision
Friday morning he makes his Decision

Friday afternoon Jim Balsillie goes home crying(on the inside).
Wednesday emergency hearing
Thursday one last day for Baum to make his decision
Friday morning he makes his Decision

Friday afternoon Gary Buttman goes home crying(on the inside). Then gets fired!

Make it THIRTY!

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Old
09-21-2009, 06:40 PM
  #14
Fourier
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After re-reading his June decision, I'm of the opinion he won't rule in favor of PSE and Balsillie. I'm currently leaning towards the Judge ruling "No Sale".
I am surprised to here you say that leek. I actually think that the odds are strongly in favour of the NHL.

To me no sale means the NHL wins on all of the most important issues that face it beyond the Coyotes themselves. But it also means that the Coyotes as a team in Phoenix are all but done. Am I wrong on this last part? (My ignorance may well be showing here.)

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Old
09-21-2009, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billy blaze View Post
video from game on September 15, 2009, maybe some of the phoenix people can spot themselves - shouldn't be too hard

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECYkh-Aqfgc
Good lord, that was ridiculous! Was that for real? LOL at the creepy music in the video...

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Old
09-21-2009, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Hat tip to XavierX for a title good enough to bump one of our own...
I recommended this title a few threads ago.

It's because I'm Canadian, isn't it?

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Old
09-21-2009, 06:56 PM
  #17
billy blaze
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Originally Posted by PeteZaTheHutt View Post
Good lord, that was ridiculous! Was that for real? LOL at the creepy music in the video...
totally real taken from the press box at Jobing.com

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Old
09-21-2009, 07:07 PM
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I can understand noone buying season tickets - I don't blame them one bit.

But for an exhibition opener with dirt cheap prices on single tickets, and the need to make a statement on keeping the team in Phoenix - they should've had at least 5,000-6,000 there. It doesn't even look like there's 500 there.

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09-21-2009, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by billy blaze View Post
video from game on September 15, 2009, maybe some of the phoenix people can spot themselves - shouldn't be too hard

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECYkh-Aqfgc
They really did build a beautiful arena, didn't they?

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Old
09-21-2009, 07:14 PM
  #20
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Originally Posted by berklon View Post
But for an exhibition opener with dirt cheap prices on single tickets, and the need to make a statement on keeping the team in Phoenix - they should've had at least 5,000-6,000 there. It doesn't even look like there's 500 there.
To be fair, the camera shot doesn't show the near side boards opposite the bench. That is, by far, the most popular section and the games I've gone to it's densely packed. Best seats in the house. Again, it was the preseason on a Tuesday for a team most people in the valley think has already moved.

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09-21-2009, 07:14 PM
  #21
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This team will be in Kansas City when all is said and done.

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09-21-2009, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billy blaze View Post
video from game on September 15, 2009, maybe some of the phoenix people can spot themselves - shouldn't be too hard

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECYkh-Aqfgc
TBH, I don't think the attendance from a preseason game has much meaning considering it is a meaningless exhibition game. Also taking into account that most who attend preseason games are season ticket holders, with all this mess of Balsillie trying to take the team out of town I'm not throwing down money for a team that might not be here in 2 weeks. I'd consider myself lucky to get a refund in a reasonable time.

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Old
09-21-2009, 07:48 PM
  #23
billy blaze
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Bill Daly- nothing to see here, move along

http://www.thestar.com/sports/article/698896

Quote:
"His answers to questions on a radio program are hardly probative of what the league's rules actually are, and how the league will interpret and enforce them," said Daly.

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Old
09-21-2009, 07:52 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by Cirris View Post
TBH, I don't think the attendance from a preseason game has much meaning considering it is a meaningless exhibition game. Also taking into account that most who attend preseason games are season ticket holders, with all this mess of Balsillie trying to take the team out of town I'm not throwing down money for a team that might not be here in 2 weeks. I'd consider myself lucky to get a refund in a reasonable time.
fairweather fan

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Old
09-21-2009, 08:00 PM
  #25
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Replying to things from the last thread.

BB - very hard to say on early attendance. The high-draw teams tend to be high-draw partially because they bring in local fans of the visiting team, a number that's likely to be unaffected. However, the Phoenix ticket base has been decimated by this mess. Assuming an ownership decision has been made by that point, some of the resentment of Moyes will go away, but there's still a lingering (though less likely) threat of relocation if a lease deal doesn't get done with Glendale, plus there's the issue of no marketing up until this point. Given the preseason numbers, I assume the season ticket base has been cut in half or worse by this mess through non-renewals (through the mistaken idea that they wouldn't be able to get a refund, a "wait and see" approach or simply an unwillingness to give Moyes any money while he was still technically the owner), and those are numbers that are difficult to make up in-season.

CGG - the reason it's relevant is it shows a pattern of potentially deceptive accounting by Moyes. If he's moving money to himself/other Moyes-owned companies from the Coyotes, why should I trust that he did everything in his power to make the business as profitable as possible? And is the business really losing money if it's going from one of Moyes' pockets to the other? Furthermore, he's got some abnormally large numbers in debt service (debt to himself in some cases?) as well as in depreciation and amortization, the latter two paper losses rather than real ones. Situations like that make me wonder about artificial inflation of losses as means to an end (i.e., bankruptcy), though no one knows that to be the case at this point, obviously.

The issue isn't whether the Coyotes lost money over Moyes' tenure as owner. They almost certainly did (like most of the other teams in the league have over decade-long stretches of poor play, including many in traditional markets).

The issue is why the accounting to potentially overplay the losses so severely? It's either accidentally inept management or deliberately inept management, possibly for some means to an end.

Besides that, if you can easily attribute a third of the "$300 million" in losses to some sort of inept management, how much of the remaining loss could you eliminate with a better look at the breakdown of the numbers or smart changes in how the team is run (i.e., not hiring an $8 million coach)? None of those decisions has anything to do with the market or its viability.

If the franchise was run and ran its books the same way in, say, downtown Toronto as it does in Phoenix, I am nearly certain it would still lose money every year.

Actually, that gives me some very interesting numbers to crunch.

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