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Redden/Prospal for Briere/Jones

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Old
09-25-2009, 04:50 PM
  #51
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"The Daily News has confirmed through a team source that the Flyers will indeed waive defenseman Randy Jones at some point this weekend. The move did not take place by today’s noon deadline but can take place at any time, though it does not become effective until noon the following day.

Jones has been a target of speculation since he did not live up to the 2-year, $6 million extension he signed after the 2007-08 season. His $2.75 million cap hit was an expensive one for the Flyers to swallow in his hip injury-riddled campaign last season when he only played in 47 games.
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/frequentflyers/

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Old
09-25-2009, 06:59 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Great!

Awesome!

No one really cares!

Keep him. We don't want him.
More than fine with me. I have no interest in dealing Briere, and certainly not for Wade freaking Redden. This wasn't my proposal.

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Old
09-25-2009, 07:12 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by CannonGoBoom View Post
Comparing defensive play of a forward to that of a defenseman is retarded. Its like saying Emery is better at blocking shots than Pronger. so that point makes no sense. as for briere's health...

06-07 - 81 games played - 95 pts (15 playoff points in 16 games)
07-08 - 79 games played - 72 pts (16 playoff points in 17 games)
08-09 - 29 games played - 25 pts (4 playoff points in 6 games)

Yeah you're right, totally damaged goods.
im not even sure thats true though....

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Old
09-25-2009, 07:31 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
I am not going to go into Redden and his play on D. You like it? Fine. You are like most Rangers fans suppose to like it.

Briere is definitely not MORE injured then Gabby.

So yes, 100% BS.
Gee do you think i said "over the past 2 seasons" for a reason?

and yes redden IS better than briere defensively whether you want to admit it or not ,Since the flyers fans like to throw the "PPG Player" fact in our faces i'll throw my own facts back at them.

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Old
09-25-2009, 08:23 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImmortalRanger View Post
Gee do you think i said "over the past 2 seasons" for a reason?

and yes redden IS better than briere defensively whether you want to admit it or not ,Since the flyers fans like to throw the "PPG Player" fact in our faces i'll throw my own facts back at them.
I don't know why that has escaped everyone so far. I picked up on it, but not many others.

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Old
09-25-2009, 08:44 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
I don't know why that has escaped everyone so far. I picked up on it, but not many others.
I don't know either.
I also don't know why a mod hasen't locked this. Its clear neither fanbase wants this deal in any way shape or form and we already have a jones waived topic.

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Old
09-25-2009, 08:54 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImmortalRanger View Post
Gee do you think i said "over the past 2 seasons" for a reason?

and yes redden IS better than briere defensively whether you want to admit it or not ,Since the flyers fans like to throw the "PPG Player" fact in our faces i'll throw my own facts back at them.
It's a stupid and meaningless fact.

A better one would be that Briere is better at offense than Redden is at defense.

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Old
09-25-2009, 09:07 PM
  #58
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Well atleast Redden's contract will be gone a year sooner than Briere's and who knows what enticing free agents will be available before the start of the 14'-15' season?

I think Redden's solid defense is overshadowed by his salary. No one gets excited about a "D" man being in the right position just in time to deflect a shot into the stands.

His play has improved under Tortorella and he'll have a better season (still, not enough to justify his contract. But it's not like the Rangers paid Dale Purinton 6.5mil to play Defense instead).

I don't think you can give up on a guy after one transitional season. He's in better shape, he did not score in any pre season games but no one "burned him" back there.

The announcers on MSG have said it. So did Redden. That's the fact that he is one of the guys who feels much more comfortable in the new system. And really, as far as positioning, i still think he and Rozsival are the best defense men on the team and could provide some mentoring.

I think a trade like this has to be looked at in a sense of where help is needed most. IDC what anyone says. Redden is not a piece of garbage defense man.

The Rangers need some vets on the "Blue Line" if they are to go anywhere. Staal is good and will be a great shutdown "D" man. But he looks so steady back there that sometimes it makes you forget how long he's played in this league (which of course is only 1 season). Throw in Gilroy and MDZ, and I think we're getting "too young and inexperienced on "D." Not to mention if the team makes the playoffs! You must have a few vets on the blue line. Especially at the NHL level.

I think we have to keep Girardi, Rozsival, and Redden and I would pair each of them with one of Staal, Gilroy and MDZ (I'm assuming dz makes the team).

So i wouldn't make this trade! And it doesn't have to do with me not liking Briere.


Last edited by gravytrain6t: 09-25-2009 at 09:16 PM.
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Old
09-26-2009, 10:49 AM
  #59
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Rangers would have to do Redden for Briere straight up but the thing is that would hurt the D cause Jones is not that good and the Rangers have too many F anyway., Plus Prospal is not getting dealt

so Rangers are just going to go with what they got

Only trade I can see happening for them is if they can find a affordable PP QB , send DelZotto back...............

Ian White on the Leafs is a pretty good option for cheap but at this pt just keep DZ and see how he does the first few games

Also even taking Jones on re-entry and dealing Voros to Philly straight up makes no sense cause the Rangers still need a spare F, right now their are 14 F but Grachev has to go down if he's not getting top line minutes and they need a spare

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Old
09-26-2009, 10:59 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
If we're going to lose cap space, then there's zero point in doing this.

Briere's contract is probably worse than Redden's. He has 6 years remaining as opposed to Redden's 5, and the guy cannot stay healthy. To be honest, I think the Flyers played better without Briere last season.
Briere was also our best player not named Claude Giroux down the stretch last year.

He's not as awful as everyone is telling everyone else.

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Old
09-26-2009, 11:05 AM
  #61
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Not no, but HELL NO.


Redden is a better defender than Briere? Well...yeah, he is a 7 million dollar defenseman, so he damn well better be. That's about as useful a comparison as one between Briere and Redden's offensive ability (not very).

Gaborik is less injury prone over the last two years than Briere? I won't even get into this being true or not, but winning that argument is like winning a dick swinging contest with a two inches penis. You found somebody out there smaller than you, but that doesn't exactly mean you're packing. They both had bad years last year, who cares if one missed four more games than another ?


Last edited by Giroux tha Damaja: 09-26-2009 at 11:22 AM.
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Old
09-26-2009, 06:12 PM
  #62
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as an Ottawa fan, I am shocked at the Rangers' POV here. I consider Redden to have the worst contract in the league bar none. Does anyone thank that if he were placed on waivers that he would actually get picked up? or would NYR just be willing to shove him in the minors and pay his salary?

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Old
09-26-2009, 06:14 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'JESUS' Joe-Corvo View Post
as an Ottawa fan, I am shocked at the Rangers' POV here. I consider Redden to have the worst contract in the league bar none. Does anyone thank that if he were placed on waivers that he would actually get picked up? or would NYR just be willing to shove him in the minors and pay his salary?
We have only 4 veteran defensemen. And as much crap as Redden is given on here, he certainly brings a lot more than any filler vet like Semenov or Boullion ever could.

His salary will only be dealt with if Sather gets serious about another UFA next summer.

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Old
09-26-2009, 06:22 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'JESUS' Joe-Corvo View Post
as an Ottawa fan, I am shocked at the Rangers' POV here. I consider Redden to have the worst contract in the league bar none. Does anyone thank that if he were placed on waivers that he would actually get picked up? or would NYR just be willing to shove him in the minors and pay his salary?
There are plenty of Ranger fans, myself included, who share the same opinion. They just seem to be avoiding this thread.

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Old
09-26-2009, 06:40 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Shadowrunner View Post
There are plenty of Ranger fans, myself included, who share the same opinion. They just seem to be avoiding this thread.
Lol, ok, that makes a lot more sense. I wouldn't take the guy back period, let alone that albatross he has chained to him.

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Old
09-27-2009, 01:15 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by zarao View Post
So what if he goes down for a season. We've already taken a gamble with Gaborik. If he goes down you give Grachev a shot. You don't think he could do more for this team than Redden? Picture the heart of the 2006 Buffalo team plus Gaborik/Staal/Lundqvist.

Isn't Afinogenov still a free agent. Lets give him Gaborik-like contract. I wonder if Pominville and Stafford are available. Spacek and Lydman would help too. Also Lundqvist >> Miller so we are well ahead of 06 Sabres team.

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Old
09-27-2009, 02:33 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
We have only 4 veteran defensemen. And as much crap as Redden is given on here, he certainly brings a lot more than any filler vet like Semenov or Boullion ever could.

His salary will only be dealt with if Sather gets serious about another UFA next summer.
I agree that without Redden, there would be a hole in the lineup temporarily until Sang or McD or Sauer or Heineken can fill in (I'm assuming Dizzy and Gilroy don't get sent back within a week).

However, if a chance presents to dump Redden's contract, you have to do it. His contract will be very hard to trade, even for nothing. If someone comes in and says that they will take him without sending us back an awful, long-term contract, we have to make the trade because this opportunity may not present itself again.

Would it harm us this season? Yes.

Would it put too much pressure on the rookies, 3 of whom would have to play in the top 6 on D, as well as on Lundqvist? Yes.

But you still have to do it.

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Old
09-27-2009, 03:37 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'JESUS' Joe-Corvo View Post
as an Ottawa fan, I am shocked at the Rangers' POV here. I consider Redden to have the worst contract in the league bar none. Does anyone thank that if he were placed on waivers that he would actually get picked up? or would NYR just be willing to shove him in the minors and pay his salary?
Worst contract in the NHL eh? how that 8 mill dollar salary for campbell going in chicago?

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Old
09-27-2009, 06:46 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by ImmortalRanger View Post
Worst contract in the NHL eh? how that 8 mill dollar salary for campbell going in chicago?
You are terrible with cap hits. First you say Briere is 8 million instead of the 6.5 he actually is, and now Campbell is 8 million instead of the 7.1 he actually is. Meanwhile, Redden has the same 6.5 caphit that Briere does.

I'd much rather have either Campbell at 7.1 or Briere at 6.5 than Redden at 6.5.

Campbell can still get you 50 points from the blueline and Briere can still score at a PPG. What the hell does Wade Redden do to even remotely justify his salary? He's neither a shutdown defender nor does he provide any real offense anymore. He's just a black hole of cap space.

Worst dollar for dollar contract in the league.

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09-27-2009, 08:31 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mja View Post
You are terrible with cap hits. First you say Briere is 8 million instead of the 6.5 he actually is, and now Campbell is 8 million instead of the 7.1 he actually is. Meanwhile, Redden has the same 6.5 caphit that Briere does.

I'd much rather have either Campbell at 7.1 or Briere at 6.5 than Redden at 6.5.

Campbell can still get you 50 points from the blueline and Briere can still score at a PPG. What the hell does Wade Redden do to even remotely justify his salary? He's neither a shutdown defender nor does he provide any real offense anymore. He's just a black hole of cap space.

Worst dollar for dollar contract in the league.
oh jeez campbell scored 50 pts for the first time in his career now he's going to do it every year guranteed.Hey guess what redden has done it before and the magic crystal ball says he didn't do it the next year.

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Old
09-27-2009, 09:37 AM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImmortalRanger View Post
oh jeez campbell scored 50 pts for the first time in his career now he's going to do it every year guranteed.Hey guess what redden has done it before and the magic crystal ball says he didn't do it the next year.
Please do some research before making silly unsubstantiated posts...

Campbell's season totals since 2006: 48, 62, 52

Redden's season totals since 2006: 36, 38, 26


Campbell is still a terrible contract (like 90% of all FA contracts), but I'd still much rather pay him another 600k for an additional ~20 points from the blueline.

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Old
09-27-2009, 05:35 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Shadowrunner View Post
I've seen plenty of both Briere and Savard, and they are as close as two players can get in terms of talent, and Marleau can't touch either of them. Briere is somewhat more injury prone, sure, but not as bad as some make it out to be. If you don't count last season he's been pretty healthy since the lockout, and his PPG average has been right around that of Savard.

But back to the original argument, I would take him over Redden any day of the week, and I fail to see why anyone wouldn't.
Savard vs Briere, season by season...

Savard: 2003-04 Atlanta Thrashers 45gp 19g 33a 52p
Briere: 2003-04 Buffalo Sabres 82gp 28g 37a 65p

Savard puts up 13 less points in 37 less games, clearly Savard had the better year.

Savard: 2005-06 Atlanta Thrashers 82gp 28g 69a 97p
Briere: 2005-06 Buffalo Sabres 48gp 25g 33a 58p

Similar point per game ratios, Savard puts up nearly 100 points playing for Atlanta who didn't make the playoffs, while Briere had a solid year in Buffalo on one of the top teams in the East.

Savard: 2006-07 Boston Bruins 82gp 22g 74a 96p
Briere: 2006-07 Buffalo Sabres 81gp 32g 63a 95p

Savard had 1 more point in 1 more game on a team that didn't even come close in terms of talent. Savard definitely had a better year here. Briere had Vanek, Drury, Pominville, Roy, Afinogenov, and Kotalik... Savard had Hossa on his line, and Kovalchuk playing on the 2nd line, but little else to work with otherwise.

Savard: 2007-08 Boston Bruins 74gp 15g 63a 78p
Briere: 2007-08 Philadelphia Flyers 79gp 31a 41g 72p

Savard had a point per game season on a team that finished 8th compared to a Flyer team that finished 6th, and Briere scoring less than point per game.

Savard: 2008-09 Boston Bruins 82gp 25g 63a 88p
Briere: 2008-09 Philadelphia Flyers 29gp 11g 14a 25p

Briere was injured, really can't make anything of it, but Savard did have a great year for the Bruins.

Overall, I'd say Savard's body of work has been better since 04.

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Old
09-27-2009, 07:22 PM
  #73
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Most threads here are filled with people who want to see Wade Redden roasted on a spit, now some are claiming that he has as much or more value per dollar than Briere?!?

This deal would be an utterly unbelievable steal for the us. Hence, there's no way in hell it's happening.

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09-27-2009, 08:59 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowrunner View Post
Please do some research before making silly unsubstantiated posts...

Campbell's season totals since 2006: 48, 62, 52

Redden's season totals since 2006: 36, 38, 26


Campbell is still a terrible contract (like 90% of all FA contracts), but I'd still much rather pay him another 600k for an additional ~20 points from the blueline.
Amazing! You really couldnt figure out i was talking only about regular season stats right? please do some of your own research.

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Old
09-27-2009, 09:19 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by ImmortalRanger View Post
Amazing! You really couldnt figure out i was talking only about regular season stats right? please do some of your own research.
Just stop it. You are only embarrassing yourself further.

You really couldn't figure out you have to add Campbell's 19 REGULAR SEASON points with the Sharks in 07-08 with his 43 REGULAR SEASON points with the Sabres in 07-08 to arrive at a grand total of 62 REGULAR SEASON points for the 07-08 season? You know: 19 + 43 = 62.

You know what? Don't even bother trying to research anything, you can't get any cap numbers right and you can't even read a stat sheet without messing it up.

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