HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Notices

Frogren done as a Leaf?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
09-29-2009, 10:46 AM
  #26
EazyB97
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 27,496
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeafsInSeven View Post
It depends on your criteria of a young player "deserving an NHL gig"...

Players like Frogren, Wallin, Primeau and other veterans are on the roster to push those young players to be better, mostly in consistency, competitiveness and attention to detail. Young players need only play as well as these modest talents and an NHL job is theirs. If these young players get their NHL jobs through entitlement instead of competition, the team deservedly gets mediocrity because obviously mediocrity and a newer birth certificate is enough to earn an NHL job.
Primeau is a different story as he has played in the NHL for a number of years. Frogren and arguably Wallin, were outplayed in the pre-season and Frogren was outplayed on a nightly basis in the NHL by players like Stralman, Sifers, Oreskovich, Colaiacovo.

EazyB97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-29-2009, 10:46 AM
  #27
TheProspector
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Buffalo
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 2,141
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by John-Eric Iannicello View Post
I don't recall Frogren ever really blocking anyone's development. When he was brought in most expected him to be at best a #5 defender. What he was a 6/7.
Carlo.

TheProspector is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-29-2009, 10:56 AM
  #28
StarBurns RIP
No Agenda
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,906
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EazyB97 View Post
Primeau is a different story as he has played in the NHL for a number of years. Frogren and arguably Wallin, were outplayed in the pre-season and Frogren was outplayed on a nightly basis in the NHL by players like Stralman, Sifers, Oreskovich, Colaiacovo.
Wallin, while hardly a world beater, most certainly wasn't outplayed by Kulemin and Tlusty in the preseason. Wallin was more consistent, competitive and physically mature than those two. Those two have more upside but we aren't discussing upside.

It's debatable who outplayed Frogren last season. I thought Stralman outplayed no one last season, I think people are blinded by his skills and ignoring the results on the ice. Sifers was only decent for about his first week then I feared for his life out on the ice and wasn't even re-signed. I liked Oreskovic over Frogren but again like Stralman Oreskovic is a right side defenseman and really isn't competing against the left sider Frogren.

StarBurns RIP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-29-2009, 11:02 AM
  #29
EazyB97
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 27,496
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeafsInSeven View Post
Wallin, while hardly a world beater, most certainly wasn't outplayed by Kulemin and Tlusty in the preseason. Wallin was more consistent, competitive and physically mature than those two. Those two have more upside but we aren't discussing upside.

It's debatable who outplayed Frogren last season. I thought Stralman outplayed no one last season, I think people are blinded by his skills and ignoring the results on the ice. Sifers was only decent for about his first week then I feared for his life out on the ice and wasn't even re-signed. I liked Oreskovic over Frogren but again like Stralman Oreskovic is a right side defenseman and really isn't competing against the left sider Frogren.
I'm not too worried about Wallin at this point. Frogren was another story. He was a defensive d-man who lacked speed, positioning and lost battles. For the RH point, we had many d-men playing on their off-sides last year and I'd take any one of the players I listed on their incorrect side over Frogren. Froggy was a PK specialist who was a large part of an awful PK. I really can't think of anything I would consider a positive about him. When he was physical, it was usually just him finishing a hit on the play and he ended up more out of position than anyone. He had no offense, he was a pylon for the other team, he was consitently beat in our zone and had trouble following the play. Just a very poor experiment. An average minor league player who was in well over his head.

EazyB97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-29-2009, 11:04 AM
  #30
Jordan
Registered User
 
Jordan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,683
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paris in Flames View Post
Do the Marlies not still wear blue and white?
I think the point of it is that he'd have to go through re-entry waivers to get called up, and those who don't (namely, Gunnarsson) will get called up first.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Frogren hit re-entry waivers just to see if someone would claim him.

Jordan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-29-2009, 11:16 AM
  #31
Leaf Lander
Registered User
 
Leaf Lander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: BWO Headquarters
Country: Canada
Posts: 28,587
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Leaf Lander Send a message via MSN to Leaf Lander
good luck and all the best to Mr Frogren

Leaf Lander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-29-2009, 11:37 AM
  #32
StarBurns RIP
No Agenda
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,906
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EazyB97 View Post
I'm not too worried about Wallin at this point. Frogren was another story. He was a defensive d-man who lacked speed, positioning and lost battles. For the RH point, we had many d-men playing on their off-sides last year and I'd take any one of the players I listed on their incorrect side over Frogren. Froggy was a PK specialist who was a large part of an awful PK. I really can't think of anything I would consider a positive about him. When he was physical, it was usually just him finishing a hit on the play and he ended up more out of position than anyone. He had no offense, he was a pylon for the other team, he was consitently beat in our zone and had trouble following the play. Just a very poor experiment. An average minor league player who was in well over his head.
From my recollection, only Mike Van Ryn played on his unnatural side last season for any significant period of time.

Again, I ain't arguing that Frogren is or ever was any good but the contention that he negatively effected even one younger Leaf defenseman is ludicrous. Competition is healthy especially between an experienced player and a young up-and-comer. Frogren hardly took a stranglehold of minutes even when he did play.

StarBurns RIP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-29-2009, 11:40 AM
  #33
iPunch
Registered Leafs Fan
 
iPunch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,251
vCash: 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProspector View Post
Carlo.
If he blocked Carlo, then Carlo was never good enough to begin with.

iPunch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-29-2009, 11:42 AM
  #34
mooseOAK*
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 42,437
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punch Imlach View Post
If he blocked Carlo, then Carlo was never good enough to begin with.
Strange statement, Carlo clearly was better to begin with and is better now.

mooseOAK* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-29-2009, 11:48 AM
  #35
EazyB97
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 27,496
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeafsInSeven View Post
From my recollection, only Mike Van Ryn played on his unnatural side last season for any significant period of time.

Again, I ain't arguing that Frogren is or ever was any good but the contention that he negatively effected even one younger Leaf defenseman is ludicrous. Competition is healthy especially between an experienced player and a young up-and-comer. Frogren hardly took a stranglehold of minutes even when he did play.
I don't see how it's ludicrous at all. Frogren was given a spot while others outplayed him. White started the year in PB because of this and Cola was eventually moved. Both were much better players on the ice. Stralman outplayed him during the pre-season and the NHL action he got. Frogren was continually played for the start of the season while other more deserving players weren't in the line-up. When we saw some younger players, White, Stralman, Sifers, Oreskovic, they were better than Frogren. However it took injuries for these players to get a look, while Frogren was given the benefit of the doubt. For competition, Frogren didn't earn his spot. He was behind a number of players, but he was the one in the line-up opening night.

EazyB97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-29-2009, 11:59 AM
  #36
ColtonROAR
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 125
vCash: 500
Well isn't this some thanks.. Burke said that Frogren was a huge help in landing The Monster.

Its not a very classy move to dump the guy after he was a "big part" in landing what could be our #1 goalie for years to come.

ColtonROAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-29-2009, 12:02 PM
  #37
zeke
#TeamReimer
 
zeke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 27,811
vCash: 500
Frogren just can't skate at this level - not even close.

zeke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-29-2009, 12:02 PM
  #38
iPunch
Registered Leafs Fan
 
iPunch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,251
vCash: 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
Strange statement, Carlo clearly was better to begin with and is better now.
Im just saying that if Jonas Frogren is blocking anyones development, they might need to go back to the drawing board. He was never anything more than a #6 on the best of days.

iPunch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-29-2009, 12:05 PM
  #39
mooseOAK*
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 42,437
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColtonROAR View Post
Well isn't this some thanks.. Burke said that Frogren was a huge help in landing The Monster.

Its not a very classy move to dump the guy after he was a "big part" in landing what could be our #1 goalie for years to come.
The $2 million that the Leafs spent on a guy who never deserved it more than makes up for that slight.

mooseOAK* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-29-2009, 12:10 PM
  #40
beleaf101
Registered User
 
beleaf101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 514
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punch Imlach View Post
Im just saying that if Jonas Frogren is blocking anyones development, they might need to go back to the drawing board. He was never anything more than a #6 on the best of days.
He could be back if we run into a rash of injuries. I would say even now he is better than Exelby. He doesn't drop the gloves like Exelby, but at least he can stand up.But Exelby is one Burke moves.

beleaf101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-29-2009, 12:10 PM
  #41
New Liskeard
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 8,666
vCash: 500
[QUOTE=Punch Imlach;21323897]Im just saying that if Jonas Frogren is blocking anyones development, they might need to go back to the drawing board. He was never anything more than a #6 on the best of days.[/QUOTE]

The GM at the time thought otherwise; and Carlo wasn't given nearly the same ammount as Frogren.

New Liskeard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-29-2009, 12:14 PM
  #42
Russell Oliver
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: Isle of Man
Posts: 5,486
vCash: 500
Perhaps Frogren wants to return to Sweden

Burke might be doing him a favour, I don't think he had to be put on Waivers so he's allowing other teams to give him an NHL job if not, he can return to Sweden rather than play in the AHL. Save the Leafs some money as his Swedish team will pay him some salary and Leafs make up the difference.

Russell Oliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-29-2009, 12:16 PM
  #43
Russell Oliver
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: Isle of Man
Posts: 5,486
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
Frogren just isn't NHL quality and shouldn't be on the team, that's all.
Oh Well, it only cost us about 4 million and a 4th rd pick, way to go Cliffy your a Leaf icon.

Russell Oliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-29-2009, 12:23 PM
  #44
mooseOAK*
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 42,437
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeBird View Post
Oh Well, it only cost us about 4 million and a 4th rd pick, way to go Cliffy your a Leaf icon.
My guess is that it was an Al Coates screw up and Fletcher just acted on his recommendation.

mooseOAK* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-29-2009, 12:25 PM
  #45
EazyB97
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 27,496
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeBird View Post
Burke might be doing him a favour, I don't think he had to be put on Waivers so he's allowing other teams to give him an NHL job if not, he can return to Sweden rather than play in the AHL. Save the Leafs some money as his Swedish team will pay him some salary and Leafs make up the difference.
He has to go on waivers. He was only exempt for the first year of his contract.

EazyB97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-29-2009, 12:28 PM
  #46
Russell Oliver
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: Isle of Man
Posts: 5,486
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EazyB97 View Post
He has to go on waivers. He was only exempt for the first year of his contract.
OK! must be some thing to do with his age.

Russell Oliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-29-2009, 12:29 PM
  #47
Marshy
Registered User
 
Marshy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 496
vCash: 500
RIP...



Marshy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-29-2009, 12:33 PM
  #48
selltrade
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,452
vCash: 500
[QUOTE=TML4LIFE;21324031]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punch Imlach View Post
Im just saying that if Jonas Frogren is blocking anyones development, they might need to go back to the drawing board. He was never anything more than a #6 on the best of days.[/QUOTE]

The GM at the time thought otherwise; and Carlo wasn't given nearly the same ammount as Frogren.
Carlos only had parts of 5 seasons to make a impression. Good gravey get over this trade. Just fyi , Steen is on the 4th line in St. Louis and Carlos is in the bottom d-man pairings. These are the gods that were traded for Stempniak... You would think by all these posts that this was Bobby Orr and Bobby Hull.

selltrade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-29-2009, 01:09 PM
  #49
ULF_55
Global Moderator
 
ULF_55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Mountain Standard Ti
Posts: 54,557
vCash: 500
I think Carlo had a fatter foot than Froggie.

Seriously people, GM's have a bias to players they bring in ... that's fricken why they bring them in!!!

RW was quite open about it last year, saying the holdovers had a shorter string, and that the new guys had more rope. This means, if you are new you gonna get the breaks ... which they did.

Froggie was't the only one to benefit from being a CF hire, so was Finger who didn't even play preseason but got the job.

__________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Keon

He was the Leafs' leading scorer in the 196364, 196667 and 196970 seasons, and the team's top goal scorer in 197071 and 197273. Keon was considered one of the fastest skaters in the NHL, and one of the best defensive forwards of his era.[3] He would usually play against the opposing team's top centre, and developed a reputation for neutralizing some of the league's top scorers. In 197071, he scored eight shorthanded goals, setting an NHL record.
ULF_55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-29-2009, 02:38 PM
  #50
KCrushers
Registered User
 
KCrushers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 651
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthSwe View Post
Go back home to us instead!
I agree but not until next season when he brings Wallin and Berglund.

KCrushers is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:15 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.