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Girardi's been Blueshirt bust

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Old
09-29-2009, 07:33 AM
  #101
Levitate
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Yeah, if he evens out his play then I'm fine with what he brings to the table.

He's just gotten more and more irritating to me because he's one of those guys that in his first couple of seasons you go "hey he could be pretty good as he progresses" and then it seems like he never progressed.

Now, looking back, maybe I'm being unfair and him being forced into more minutes than he can really handle has masked the progression he has made, but ultimately he needs to settle down and focus more on his own end first. He's not a good enough skater or passer to be rushing the puck or stepping up very much at all. He has a decent wrist shot from the point that finds its way through, and he should use that, but otherwise I think he needs to focus on D

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09-29-2009, 10:32 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Toots was very shaky his last year here, if you recall. He was supposed to take that next step forward offensively, but managed to take a step backwards defensively. Girardi clearly outplayed him.

Now all of a sudden, all we seem to be remembering the good from Toots.

Maybe if (or when) we move Danny, people like you will be repeating yourself down the road, as we're watching another failed version of Malik/Ozolinch/Backman/Kalinin frolick up and down the ice. I'm looking forward to it.
Or, maybe it was Toots who had to keep covering up Girardi's errors making himself look bad. How can Toots' offense grow when he had to focus on defense more b/c Girardi was very prone to mistakes... Like i have been saying all along.

Toots was progressing nicely.... until paird w/ Girardi for a season.
Redden was awful while paired w/ Girardi... but once paired w/ Rosy was much better
Staal is better while paired w/ Rosy over Girardi
The Staal-Girardi combo was awful during the playoffs... and Staal played really well.

Girardi is always towards the bottom of the +/- stat on the team... however his partner (or partners) usually aren't that close to him.

Look at last year... Girardi was a -14... his Partner Staal was only a -7... he was 7 points lower than ANY other dman on the team and a whopping 16 lower than the best which was Mara at +2... how in god's name does one dman out of the entire d corps get that much lower than anybody else.

Look at the year before. Girardi and Tyutin were paired the entire year. Tyutin was a +5 and Girardi was tied for the bottom of dmen at 0.

Look at his career PO line - 27gp 0g 3a -6.

lets compare to Rosy in the same timeline: 27gp 4g 9a +12

if anything Girardi has gotten a complete free pass, for doing absolutely nothing. Yet Rosy is called "Blowsival" and Girardi is a Golden Boy who in some peoples eyes is one of our best dmen...

and his two partners during the PO's Tyutin/Staal have combined for 27gp 1g 8a -7. Staal being 10 gp 1g 0a -3 last year and Tyutin being 20gp 0g 8a -4 for the 06 and 07 PO's. So even the offense is coming from his partners and not him.

so again I ask... what is so good about Girardi?

meanwhile... Toots in his first year in CLS puts up 9g (5 on the PP leading dmen) 25a (12 on the PP) and was a +1. All without Girardi. Which by the way looks very close to his 2005-2006 season in which was his only season playing without Girardi when he put up 6 g (4pp) 19a(8pp) and was a +1.

I don't think all this is just a coincidence... and think it is b/c Girardi really isn't that good.


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09-29-2009, 10:41 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
I think this is a bit over the top. I really don't think Tortorella is systematically crucifiying Renney's players. He's not attacking Staal, Drury, or Roszival.
So what is it all about, then? Do you think Torts tries to bring about the best from Dan by publicly complaining about his camp? When did it really work last time? All I know is when Brooks calls someone names a la Zherdev it sooner or later results in that player number being available. Call me paranoid, but that is a campaign in my book. Brooks is nothing more but MSG agent. I know that for a fact monitoring his career.

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09-29-2009, 10:48 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post

so again I ask... what is so good about Girardi?
He is young, inexpensive and gets the job done, if used correctly.

My message to Torts: Do not fix it, if it ain't broken. Defense was not NYR problem last season.

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09-29-2009, 10:55 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
He is young, inexpensive and gets the job done, if used correctly.

My message to Torts: Do not fix it, if it ain't broken. Defense was not NYR problem last season.
I would say it was. The offensive problems just overshadowed everything else

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09-29-2009, 11:22 AM
  #106
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I would say it was. The offensive problems just overshadowed everything else
+1 to this. All of our problems last year were relative. The Offense was horrible, while the Defense was adequate, primarily brought down by a couple of individuals. Girardi is fine as a 3rd pair Dman. His shortcomings become more obvious when more is asked of him.

Agree with others that with the Dman prospects we have, he is likely gone next year or the year after. I can't justify more than $2mm per year for him, even if he improves his play.

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09-29-2009, 11:45 AM
  #107
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With the D we have coming Girardi's going to have a hard time keeping his spot in the future--no doubt. Whether he gets moved this year--asks for more than the Rangers are willing to give him next year or whatever. The same might be said for the two R's--with both Gilroy and MDZ audtioning right now for their pwp time. Rozsival's contract is probably moveable and if he can't hold on to his pwp time the Rangers just might push him hard at the trade deadline. Redden cannot afford to have a mediocre season--he's got to have a good one from beginning to end.

All three of them could be out of the picture within a season or two. The only vet that looks secure at all is Staal.

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09-29-2009, 11:55 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
With the D we have coming Girardi's going to have a hard time keeping his spot in the future--no doubt. Whether he gets moved this year--asks for more than the Rangers are willing to give him next year or whatever. The same might be said for the two R's--with both Gilroy and MDZ audtioning right now for their pwp time. Rozsival's contract is probably moveable and if he can't hold on to his pwp time the Rangers just might push him hard at the trade deadline. Redden cannot afford to have a mediocre season--he's got to have a good one from beginning to end.

All three of them could be out of the picture within a season or two. The only vet that looks secure at all is Staal.
True...but of the three, which contract would prove easiest to move? Think Maloney would fork over a 2nd round pick in 2010? Or should I just hope for a 3rd?

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09-29-2009, 12:00 PM
  #109
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True...but of the three, which contract would prove easiest to move? Think Maloney would fork over a 2nd round pick in 2010? Or should I just hope for a 3rd?
You'd have to ask him--but I'd certainly hold out for the 2nd.

Right now I don't see us moving any of our defense--because we're just not sure what we have with MDZ and Gilroy. They need to settle in (or not) and if someone is stinking up the joint on a nightly basis come November--then we might start to think about moving a vet.

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09-29-2009, 12:05 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
He is young, inexpensive and gets the job done, if used correctly.

My message to Torts: Do not fix it, if it ain't broken. Defense was not NYR problem last season.
Defense was a huge problem last year, though perhaps not exactly the way you may think.

The Rangers defense struggled hard to create any kind of transition game and the overall offense struggled because of it. The Rangers D did nothing to chip in on offense and the team struggled because of it.

To be a really good team, your defense needs to be able to stop the other team AND turn the play back the other way. Obviously forwards play a big role in this as well, and I think Renney's system was anything but helpful at this, but the Rangers struggled a lot when it came to moving the puck up the ice (when Gomez wasn't on).

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09-29-2009, 12:08 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Toots was very shaky his last year here, if you recall. He was supposed to take that next step forward offensively, but managed to take a step backwards defensively. Girardi clearly outplayed him.

Now all of a sudden, all we seem to be remembering the good from Toots.

Maybe if (or when) we move Danny, people like you will be repeating yourself down the road, as we're watching another failed version of Malik/Ozolinch/Backman/Kalinin frolick up and down the ice. I'm looking forward to it.
Speak for yourself. I always wanted to keep Tyutin over Girardi. Tyutin was hardly playing poor his last year with us and how is he suppose to get better offensively if he was never given a real shot on the PP?

All of a sudden the Jackets used him on the PP and his offensive skills starting to surface again.

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09-29-2009, 12:12 PM
  #112
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I don't think Girardi ever outplayed Tyutin...

Tyutin got more **** when he struggled because people thought "oh no here's another Malakhov! He has all the skill in the world but just won't realize it!"

Whereas Girardi got a pass. Again, this isn't the first time Girardi has struggled.

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09-29-2009, 12:13 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
I don't think Girardi ever outplayed Tyutin...

Tyutin got more **** when he struggled because people thought "oh no here's another Malakhov! He has all the skill in the world but just won't realize it!"

Whereas Girardi got a pass. Again, this isn't the first time Girardi has struggled.
You nailed it. I heard this over and over again on the board.

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09-29-2009, 12:15 PM
  #114
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Tyutin had the 2.8 mil cap hit to Girardi's 1.5, that was another factor. Plus Tyutin was drafted in the second round whereas girardi was undrafted.

Believe it or not, salary influences people's opinions of player's performances on this board.

Which is too bad, I like to be more objective about it.

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09-29-2009, 12:18 PM
  #115
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Yeah, at this point there is no comparison between Girardi and Tyutin. I'm still not really sold on Tyutin yet. He was an average player for most of his tenure here. He also had one of the least accurate shots on the team. I'm not really sure how he scored 9 goals last season.

I would be shocked if he exceeded his offensive numbers from last year this upcoming season. I think he will hover around 25-30 points throughout his career while playing slightly above average defensively.

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09-29-2009, 12:25 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
So what is it all about, then? Do you think Torts tries to bring about the best from Dan by publicly complaining about his camp? When did it really work last time? All I know is when Brooks calls someone names a la Zherdev it sooner or later results in that player number being available. Call me paranoid, but that is a campaign in my book. Brooks is nothing more but MSG agent. I know that for a fact monitoring his career.
The last time? That I don't know. I do know it worked with Lecavilier and Prospal. I think he gave Bulin a hard time the year they won the cup. If he's breaking Prospal's balls all the time yet brings him into NY, I don't see how he is running guys out of town with the public beatings.

Think more along the lines of Mara. I wouldn't classify him as a pro or con-Renney guy. Renney benched him alot, yet brought him back the following season. Torts coached Mara before and ran him out of town. He probably did it again this year. He wasn't a Renney guy so that theory is out the window. He is just being consistent, he doesn't like the type of player Mara is. Not then, not now. It's not about who he played for, it's about the play. I'm not saying Torts is right in his judgement, I'm just saying his motives are pure.

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09-29-2009, 12:30 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
Tyutin had the 2.8 mil cap hit to Girardi's 1.5, that was another factor. Plus Tyutin was drafted in the second round whereas girardi was undrafted.

Believe it or not, salary influences people's opinions of player's performances on this board.

Which is too bad, I like to be more objective about it.
Nope, Tyutin didn't sign that deal until Feburary of 2008. He was traded the following offseason, so he never actually made that salary while playing for the Rangers.

Before that, his cap hit was around $1 mill for a two year deal; $950k in 2006 and $1.025 mill in 2007

To be a little fair, Girardi didn't sign his deal until around the time Tyutin got his four year extension.

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Yeah, at this point there is no comparison between Girardi and Tyutin. I'm still not really sold on Tyutin yet. He was an average player for most of his tenure here. He also had one of the least accurate shots on the team. I'm not really sure how he scored 9 goals last season.

I would be shocked if he exceeded his offensive numbers from last year this upcoming season. I think he will hover around 25-30 points throughout his career while playing slightly above average defensively.
What exactly do you mean "no comparison"? Favorable to who? Tyutin's defense is better than Girardi's...his offense has proven to be better, hell his hitting was better, his board work was better. He was a better defenseman all the way around

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09-29-2009, 12:34 PM
  #118
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People forget that Tytuin absolutely disappeared in the playoffs in 07-08. He was our top hitter in the regular season (Girardi was #2) and then come playoffs he only registered 16 with 3 points (same as Girardi). Girardi had 50 hits. Girardi was a +1, Tyutin -1. Girardi also took more shots than Tyutin.

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09-29-2009, 12:59 PM
  #119
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What exactly do you mean "no comparison"? Favorable to who? Tyutin's defense is better than Girardi's...his offense has proven to be better, hell his hitting was better, his board work was better. He was a better defenseman all the way around
Favorible to Tyutin. When they played with each other I actually thought they were on par, but Girardi was a disappointment last season whereas Tyutin had somewhat of a break-out season with Columbus. Obviously Tyutin is better at the moment

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09-29-2009, 01:02 PM
  #120
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Yeah, at this point there is no comparison between Girardi and Tyutin. I'm still not really sold on Tyutin yet. He was an average player for most of his tenure here. He also had one of the least accurate shots on the team. I'm not really sure how he scored 9 goals last season.

I would be shocked if he exceeded his offensive numbers from last year this upcoming season. I think he will hover around 25-30 points throughout his career while playing slightly above average defensively.
Tyutin is/was a much better player than Girardi...and hes getting better.

Personally, Im very worried that we've already seen the best of Dan Girardi.

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09-29-2009, 01:06 PM
  #121
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Tyutin had the 2.8 mil cap hit to Girardi's 1.5, that was another factor. Plus Tyutin was drafted in the second round whereas girardi was undrafted.

Believe it or not, salary influences people's opinions of player's performances on this board.

Which is too bad, I like to be more objective about it.
rozy could be playing for free and he would still pretty much suk.

when you suk, you suk.

period.

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09-29-2009, 01:12 PM
  #122
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People forget that Tytuin absolutely disappeared in the playoffs in 07-08. He was our top hitter in the regular season (Girardi was #2) and then come playoffs he only registered 16 with 3 points (same as Girardi). Girardi had 50 hits. Girardi was a +1, Tyutin -1. Girardi also took more shots than Tyutin.
girardi has 27 PO games with the Rangers... he has all of 3 assists and is a -6.... that's pretty pathetic. Tyutin in 20 PO games with us has 8 assists and is a -4.

While Tyutin's stats isn't great... it sure beats Girardi.

But in those two PO's that both played together Girardi is a -3 in the 20 games and with only 3 assists.

Also Tyutin in 05-06 was a -1 (tops among Dmen and only onle player had a + rating) with 1 assist when we got swept by the Debbies... and in Columbus he was a 0 (best among DMen and tied for 2nd on team) with no pts on a team swept by Detroit.

Kinda hard to be a + player when you get swept, yet Tyutin did it.

so overall Girardi is is 27 gp he has 3 assists and is a -6. Tyutin in 28 gp has 9a and is a -4.

So who is the better PO performer?


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09-29-2009, 01:13 PM
  #123
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rozy could be playing for free and he would still pretty much suk.

when you suk, you suk.

period.
I really dont understand what your problem is. I mean, knee-jerk reactions are a consistent problem around here, but you're different. You pick people to hate, and people to love, and you just dont stray from it no matter what.

It doesnt matter that Michal Rozsival has played 20+ minutes a night in the NHL for 4+ seasons now on 4 playoff teams. Nope, he sucks.

It doesnt matter to you that Enver Lisin hasnt scored at any level of hockey and couldnt crack the lineup for half the season on one of the worst teams in the league....nope, he belongs on the top line with Gaborik.

And the fact you constantly target Roszival without a peep about Redden makes it all the more strange.

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09-29-2009, 01:27 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
girardi has 27 PO games with the Rangers... he has all of 3 assists and is a -6.... that's pretty pathetic. Tyutin in 20 PO games with us has 8 assists and is a -4.

While Tyutin's stats isn't great... it sure beats Girardi.

But in those two PO's that both played together Girardi is a -3 in the 20 games and with only 3 assists.

Also Tyutin in 05-06 was a -1 (tops among Dmen and only onle player had a + rating) with 1 assist when we got swept by the Debbies... and in Columbus he was a 0 (best among DMen and tied for 2nd on team) with no pts on a team swept by Detroit.

Kinda hard to be a + player when you get swept, yet Tyutin did it.

so overall Girardi is is 27 gp he has 3 assists and is a -6. Tyutin in 28 gp has 9a and is a -4.

So who is the better PO performer?
Both seem to suck. Still Tyutin was the team's top hitter and he disappeared that year... The year before he got traded. Makes a big difference.

It's just silly that people are making Tyutin out like such a great defenseman when he's above average at most.

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09-29-2009, 01:27 PM
  #125
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I really dont understand what your problem is. I mean, knee-jerk reactions are a consistent problem around here, but you're different. You pick people to hate, and people to love, and you just dont stray from it no matter what.

It doesnt matter that Michal Rozsival has played 20+ minutes a night in the NHL for 4+ seasons now on 4 playoff teams. Nope, he sucks.

It doesnt matter to you that Enver Lisin hasnt scored at any level of hockey and couldnt crack the lineup for half the season on one of the worst teams in the league....nope, he belongs on the top line with Gaborik.

And the fact you constantly target Roszival without a peep about Redden makes it all the more strange.
i dont hate anyone brb. really.

i do not like rozys game. he makes us weaker. period. he plays soft. he plays slow. he plays passive and he makes bad passes. he needs to go away. whats not to understand ? let me know when he gets close to earning his paycheck. havent seen that yet and didnt see it most of last year.

im not the only one who think rozy is awful at any price. you make it seem like you and i watch different rozys. sorry that im consistent but hes bad. real bad.

as for redden, hes been pretty solid so far. he hasnt stood out but he hasnt made the mistake that rozy has. redden actually looks pretty good. his contract still suks but atleast he isnt stealing money every night.

lastly, i watched the entire game sunday on the dvr. and i watched closely. enver lisin had great jump to start that game. he had the 1st 4 shots on net in the 1st period for us. he had a couple good scoring chances, he made some nice tape to tape passes, setting up his linemates for some good scoring chances and his wall work was solid. he did whiff on that pass to the point and the puck ended up in hanks net. otherwise, he played good.

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