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Girardi's been Blueshirt bust

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Old
09-29-2009, 01:34 PM
  #126
DontStepanMe
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
rozy could be playing for free and he would still pretty much suk.

when you suk, you suk.

period.
Player A Playoff Stats for last three years:

10 gp 0g 0a -4
10 gp 0g 3a +1
7 gp 0g 0a -3


Player B Playoff Stats for last three years:
10gp 3g 4a +6
10gp 1g 5a +6
7gp 0g 0a E


Player C Playoff Stats for last three years:

10gp 2g 2a -4
10gp 0g 1a +3
7gp 1g 1a -2


which player sucks more?

by the way Player A is Girardi, Player B is Rosy and Player C is Mara

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09-29-2009, 01:36 PM
  #127
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At this point, I'm just wondering what d-pairing Girardi will be on. He's played with both Staal and DZ in the preseason but has spent most of the time with DZ.

It's quite obvious from Sunday's game that Girardi can't handle top pairing minutes with Staal, so that's out.

But can Girardi handle the responsibility of being paired with a rookie? Girardi and Del Zotto made a handful of mistakes in their own zone. Girardi will really have to step up his defensive game if he plays with Del Zotto. Thus far, he hasn't shown the capability to do that in the preseason and that pairing could end up being a defensive nightmare.

So what happens with Girardi? Put him back with Redden again? It seems like Torts is having a dilemma with the defense as well, as he's been mixing and matching defensemen in today's practice with no set pairings.

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09-29-2009, 01:39 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by DubiSnacks17 View Post
Both seem to suck. Still Tyutin was the team's top hitter and he disappeared that year... The year before he got traded. Makes a big difference.

It's just silly that people are making Tyutin out like such a great defenseman when he's above average at most.
but in 05-06 he had a real solid year for us... and in 08-09 he had a real solid year for Columbus... he struggled the most when he was paired w/ Girardi. It is my belief that it is b/c Girardi is a sub par dman. I am not saying Tyutin is great. But he is most definately an above average dman in this league. Girardi is below avg.

Redden, tyutin and even Staal all struggled the most when paired w/ Girardi. both Redden and Staal play much better paired with Rosy. Tyutin played better without Girardi as well.

It's a pretty bad pattern of players who, when paired w/ Girardi their play drops off.

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09-29-2009, 01:52 PM
  #129
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I find it fascinating how the perception of a player is based on his age, his willingness to hit, and whether or not he came up through the minors with the Rangers.

Girardi is basically the same player he has been since he arrived, but as he is approaching "veteran" status he is no longer seen as untouchable by the fans, it seems.

I think that Ranger fans accept nothing less than perfection by defensemen, unless they're rookies/kids.

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Old
09-29-2009, 01:56 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Khelvan View Post
I find it fascinating how the perception of a player is based on his age, his willingness to hit, and whether or not he came up through the minors with the Rangers.

Girardi is basically the same player he has been since he arrived, but as he is approaching "veteran" status he is no longer seen as untouchable by the fans, it seems.

I think that Ranger fans accept nothing less than perfection by defensemen, unless they're rookies/kids.
no he's not... he actually got worse. And even if he is the same player, that is still a huge problem. It means he didn't progress at all. he was a 5-6 dman when he broke into the league and now he is being asked to fill a top 4 maybe even a top 2 which is completely out of his league.

on top of that he is going to geta raise this offseason, for being the same or worse than when he broke in the league. It's just not good.

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09-29-2009, 02:00 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by ThirdEye View Post
Favorible to Tyutin. When they played with each other I actually thought they were on par, but Girardi was a disappointment last season whereas Tyutin had somewhat of a break-out season with Columbus. Obviously Tyutin is better at the moment
Gotcha. I mean I hope Girardi can kind of get things together and improve under Tortorella, but like many have said by now, if he doesn't have a good year I can see the Rangers letting him go/trading him next year to make sure they have cap space and room for another, cheaper, player

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It's just silly that people are making Tyutin out like such a great defenseman when he's above average at most.
He was a good second pairing defenseman. Girardi at this point is more like a 3rd pairing defenseman.

I really hope Girardi can just focus on his defense and get back to being a very solid defensive defenseman. He should be able to do that.

And while this seems like a huge "I hate Girardi" thing from me, it's just the buildup of frustration over Girardi and his inconsistent play. I think the guy has enough ability to be a good, solid defenseman. He just needs to bring it every single game. Sure he'll make mistakes, every defenseman does, but just bring it every night

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09-29-2009, 02:05 PM
  #132
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no he's not... he actually got worse. And even if he is the same player, that is still a huge problem. It means he didn't progress at all. he was a 5-6 dman when he broke into the league and now he is being asked to fill a top 4 maybe even a top 2 which is completely out of his league.

on top of that he is going to geta raise this offseason, for being the same or worse than when he broke in the league. It's just not good.
Exactly. Why pay $2 million for a bottom pair D-man, when less expensive and more talented options are close to being ready?

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09-29-2009, 03:19 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
It seems like Torts is having a dilemma with the defense as well, as he's been mixing and matching defensemen in today's practice with no set pairings.
Torts do not have any dilemmas with defense. He simply delegated that to his AC. Rangers should have kept Mara. The guy earned that, he better than Semenov ever will be. He is a reliable veteran to back up an offensive rookie. But Torts has his likes and dislikes. You've got to be really very, very good or very young or to be a Slats' man to earn his favor. I do not think it benefit the team. He wanted every one to parade in front of him. Dan didn't do it. I don't think he had to.

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09-29-2009, 04:05 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
Tyutin had the 2.8 mil cap hit to Girardi's 1.5, that was another factor. Plus Tyutin was drafted in the second round whereas girardi was undrafted.

Believe it or not, salary influences people's opinions of player's performances on this board.

Which is too bad, I like to be more objective about it.

Probably about 95% of the time I agree with you Fitzy--but not on this. The lockout and the subsequent implementation of the cap amounts at least for me to a kind of shotgun wedding between the sport as it used to be and the business/sport it is now.

Before the cap you could write off a bad contract--now you can't. Now you're stuck with your mistakes--you can't go out and buy another #1D or #2D without figuring out how to take the ones you've already spent the money on off the books.

If we give Gaborik $7.5 mil it comes with expectations--expectations much different than what we expect from Callahan who we've given $2.3 mil to.

In the same respect when we give $6.5 mil to Redden and $5 mil to Rozsival it comes with expectation as well--and it's not just that they'll do well in their own end--those two are being paid to lead the transition game from defense to offense and to run the pwp and to also do well in their own end of the ice. I don't have the same expectations for Girardi who is getting $1.5 mil. He's an important part but he's not being paid the money to lead because IMO the more money you're making the more responsibility you bear--which is why Jagr (like Messier) was a great leader on the ice and off the ice--he understood that much anyway. The transition game last year and the pwp was awful and the two R's IMO should bear the brunt of the blame as far as the defense is concerned. We can apportion another part to the offense and some to the coaching staff.

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Old
09-29-2009, 04:11 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Torts do not have any dilemmas with defense. He simply delegated that to his AC. Rangers should have kept Mara. The guy earned that, he better than Semenov ever will be. He is a reliable veteran to back up an offensive rookie. But Torts has his likes and dislikes. You've got to be really very, very good or very young or to be a Slats' man to earn his favor. I do not think it benefit the team. He wanted every one to parade in front of him. Dan didn't do it. I don't think he had to.
You obviously have some sort of vendetta against Torts so I'm not even sure it's even worth trying to rationalize what you just wrote.

But the fact that you are critcizing Torts because a player has to be "really very, very good" to earn his favor, and then saying that it does not benefit the team is absolute crazy talk.

No, Torts should like players who don't play well and are mediocre. Reward players for piss poor play! That will definitely benefit the team!

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09-29-2009, 09:13 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
i dont hate anyone brb. really.

i do not like rozys game. he makes us weaker. period. he plays soft. he plays slow. he plays passive and he makes bad passes. he needs to go away. whats not to understand ? let me know when he gets close to earning his paycheck. havent seen that yet and didnt see it most of last year.

im not the only one who think rozy is awful at any price. you make it seem like you and i watch different rozys. sorry that im consistent but hes bad. real bad.

as for redden, hes been pretty solid so far. he hasnt stood out but he hasnt made the mistake that rozy has. redden actually looks pretty good. his contract still suks but atleast he isnt stealing money every night..
You want to talk about his contract, fine. Hes overpaid, albeit not as overpaid as some other vets on this team.

But the bolded part is just an atrocity of a point, and shows your true colors. This defense is not better without Roszival. I assure you of that.

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Old
09-30-2009, 07:47 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
You obviously have some sort of vendetta against Torts so I'm not even sure it's even worth trying to rationalize what you just wrote.

But the fact that you are critcizing Torts because a player has to be "really very, very good" to earn his favor, and then saying that it does not benefit the team is absolute crazy talk.

No, Torts should like players who don't play well and are mediocre. Reward players for piss poor play! That will definitely benefit the team!
Why is that a different opinion should have some kind of underlying agenda behind it? Is that what makes you comfy?
I said only superb players ( do we have them?) could get his pass. You do not have to be genius to recognize great player. We, however, do not have many of those. Fans salivation about prospects is understood, but it is unfounded and has been proven to be false many times. Managing assets is what difficult, not trying kids. That is head coach's duty. Instead, Torts cleans the space for his own comfort and convenience. THAT has no benefit for the team. I want Mara and Zherdev back. Their replacements in Semenov and Kotalik are not beneficial to the team and may be detrimental to it. Yet Torts rid of them to make his life easier. It is much easier to deal with the kid trying to make the team than with someone like Girardi who was here before your time and earned his job under previous regime. Instead of making an effort to earn the respect of veterans, Torts purges the them and starts anew. Why? Because it is an easy way. I wouldn't have much problem with such approach if only I didn't hear the unfair accusations pulled out of his behind.


Last edited by 94now: 09-30-2009 at 08:29 AM.
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Old
09-30-2009, 09:23 AM
  #138
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Why is that a different opinion should have some kind of underlying agenda behind it? Is that what makes you comfy?
I said only superb players ( do we have them?) could get his pass. You do not have to be genius to recognize great player. We, however, do not have many of those. Fans salivation about prospects is understood, but it is unfounded and has been proven to be false many times. Managing assets is what difficult, not trying kids. That is head coach's duty. Instead, Torts cleans the space for his own comfort and convenience. THAT has no benefit for the team. I want Mara and Zherdev back. Their replacements in Semenov and Kotalik are not beneficial to the team and may be detrimental to it. Yet Torts rid of them to make his life easier. It is much easier to deal with the kid trying to make the team than with someone like Girardi who was here before your time and earned his job under previous regime. Instead of making an effort to earn the respect of veterans, Torts purges the them and starts anew. Why? Because it is an easy way. I wouldn't have much problem with such approach if only I didn't hear the unfair accusations pulled out of his behind.
so we shouldnt laugh when you inevitably rag on the team at some point for putting veterans out there before kids right?

You also really make some impressive assumptions for somebody who doesnt work for the team.

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Old
09-30-2009, 12:01 PM
  #139
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so we shouldnt laugh when you inevitably rag on the team at some point for putting veterans out there before kids right?
He replaced existing veterans with new once so he could control them better. The replacement quality is lower.

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