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Torts: 19-year-old Del Zotto has made team

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Old
09-30-2009, 10:20 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Mutus Liber View Post
Agreed 100%. We have enough defensive depth to shop Sanguinetti hard and see what he can bring, imo.
You don't start shopping defensemen until you know what's going on.

The value to a Stanley Cup team goes like this: G, D, C, W.

I remember we had Blackburn, Holmqvist, Asplund and the guy who was left out: Lundqvist. How would trading him at the time have looked right now?

Let's fill up our top 6, then we'll talk. It would be nice to have 6 young deefnsemen, 4 of whom would be underpaid because they just made the NHL.

It will free up a lot of cap space in case we need to acquire someone like Heatley (not him, just another guy of similar ability who is available in a couple of years).

Remember, in 1994, our forwards weren't great. The second line was Matteau - Tikkanen - Larmer. Not horrible, but hardly a great line. The third line was Gilbert - MacTavish - Noonan. Again, not bad, but nothing spectacular.

What helped us was the spectacular goaltending we got from Richter and the amazing defensive corps. The one thing that the Rangers had that was significantly better than anyone else was defense. The perfect #1, the perfect offensive defenseman, the perfect defensive defenseman, the perfect veteran with Cup-winning experience. That was our top 4. And the next 3 (Wells, Lidster, Karpovtsev) were also very good for the job that was assigned to them.

Defensemen are key. Let's hold off on trading them.

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09-30-2009, 10:28 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
I believe my mentions of Sanguinetti being shopped were couched in terms of "if Del Zotto and Gilroy pan out", though they're already bolstered by rumors that Sather was shopping Sanguinetti around
By the time they prove themselves, Sangs will also make his NHL debut.

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09-30-2009, 10:43 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
If I am MDZ, I am very scared now.
probably one reason you're not a pro hockey player!

sure rookies are going to be nervous, but you don't work most of your life to reach the NHL and then get all scared once you actually secure a roster spot.

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09-30-2009, 10:47 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by ragshockey88 View Post
u make some good points but his mistakes wont be because hes young. examples were crosby and patrick kane and players like them who have succeeded at young ages.
It is wayyyyyyyyyyyyy different for a rookie dman than a rookie forward. Forwards can come out right at the starting gate and their errors won't be nearly as glaring and dmen take a few extra years to get it all together unless they are very special.

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Old
09-30-2009, 10:59 AM
  #105
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It is wayyyyyyyyyyyyy different for a rookie dman than a rookie forward. Forwards can come out right at the starting gate and their errors won't be nearly as glaring and dmen take a few extra years to get it all together unless they are very special.
Correct. When young forwards struggle, its usually just a case of them being invisible. When young defensemen struggle, they are straight up exposed.

Im extremely skeptical of any teenager in the NHL. I just think its too early to be in that league unless you're talking about a generational talent. Is MDZ a generational talent? That remains to be seen. But right now, it just looks like a case of not having a better option.

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09-30-2009, 11:00 AM
  #106
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shopping sanguinetti now might not be an awful idea, but i think its better to hold onto him. i don't think girardi will be back next season and there's a chance roszival gets traded in the summer of'10 (when his actualy salary goes down). Sanguinetti, Sauer and Potter are all nhl ready, we may need 2 of them next year...no reason to rush into a trade

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09-30-2009, 11:38 AM
  #107
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What people have to realize is that every year a player doesnt make the NHL after their draft the more their value diminishes. Trading Sanguinetti wouldnt be a god idea until he makes the NHL and shows his value at that level.

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09-30-2009, 12:01 PM
  #108
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the only sangs goes if they can't get rid of #33 or #6 or he's part of a blockbuster... the cap is going down and he'll be cheap for some years to come. i can see them buying out either #33 or #6 and keeping sangs before he gets traded.

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09-30-2009, 12:05 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by BKBlackRanger View Post
the only sangs goes if they can't get rid of #33 or #6 or he's part of a blockbuster... the cap is going down and he'll be cheap for some years to come. i can see them buying out either #33 or #6 and keeping sangs before he gets traded.
If Sanguinetti has a solid year in hartford and puts up some points on a Hartford team that looks like it has a good deal of potential, I think it is very possible he can become an integral part of a blockbuster deadline deal for an elite forward like Kovalchuk or Savard who will be UFA's after the season. Now of course that would also mean we'd have to dump either rosie or redden somewhere and it would also have to mean that boston/atlanta are having bad years and may not make the playoffs.

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Old
09-30-2009, 12:11 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Im extremely skeptical of any teenager in the NHL. I just think its too early to be in that league unless you're talking about a generational talent. Is MDZ a generational talent? That remains to be seen. But right now, it just looks like a case of not having a better option.
Of course anyone can understand the skepticsm, but you have to judge a player by what you see, not what you expect. As of yet, Del Zoto has not played like a 19 year old. He's played like a talented NHL defenseman with plenty of confidence and poise. That has nothing to do with the other defensive options in camp, that has to do with Del Zoto. If he's ready to step in and play a significant role on our team now, and he's not being road blocked by other players, then why hold him back? Give him his 9 or 10 games, and see how it shakes out. He's earned it, and if it doesn't work out, you send him back to juniors with good experience and a clear understanding of where he needs to improve.

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Old
09-30-2009, 01:53 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by TheHotRock View Post
shopping sanguinetti now might not be an awful idea, but i think its better to hold onto him. i don't think girardi will be back next season and there's a chance roszival gets traded in the summer of'10 (when his actualy salary goes down). Sanguinetti, Sauer and Potter are all nhl ready, we may need 2 of them next year...no reason to rush into a trade
I hope they hold on to Girardi. There's never such a thing as too many young defensemen... well, almost never. Certainly we do not have too many DD.

Girardi is young, cheap and defense-oriented. For all the talent that we have in the system, they are mostly offensive blueliners.

After Staal, the next best young DD is Girardi. Otherwise, it will be Sauer or Potter or Valentenko. I am not impressed considering that we'll need two DD behind Staal.

Guys like Sang and McD, and even Williams and Heineken, are mostly OD.

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09-30-2009, 02:01 PM
  #112
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There's absolutely nothing with Sangs. DZ was the better of the two, but with half a year more in Hartford and he'll be more than ready for full-time NHL duty. Hopefully they can trade Rosie around the trading deadline to a team looking to shore up their defense for a Cup run. If LA could get Norstrom (and Ferraro) for McSorley (and Kurri), then Rosie should be able to bring back something too. I'd be glad to get a second rounder for him, maybe even just a #3 + #5.

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Old
09-30-2009, 02:04 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
Guys like Sang and McD, and even Williams and Heineken, are mostly OD.
From what I've seen, McD projects to be much more of a defensive D than offensive. His offensive game is there and can be effective in the NHL but it will never be what he is known for.

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Old
09-30-2009, 02:04 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
I hope they hold on to Girardi. There's never such a thing as too many young defensemen... well, almost never. Certainly we do not have too many DD.

Girardi is young, cheap and defense-oriented. For all the talent that we have in the system, they are mostly offensive blueliners.

After Staal, the next best young DD is Girardi. Otherwise, it will be Sauer or Potter or Valentenko. I am not impressed considering that we'll need two DD behind Staal.

Guys like Sang and McD, and even Williams and Heineken, are mostly OD.
McDonagh is a stay at home type.

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Old
09-30-2009, 02:39 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Garfinkel1 View Post
haha.

Anyways, back on topic...
I can see Sangs making the club next season. Puck moving offensive defenseman are a hot commodity in this league.

We could have some seriously nice lines D-pairings next season and for the future...
In no particular order...
Staal-MDZ
Girardi-Sangs
Rosie/Red-Gilroy
(Assuming we move one of Redden/Rossie)
Does McDonagh have a chance of taking Sangs spot? I would love to see Rosie gone (cause frankly no one will take Redden unless Dallas owes us for Avery)

Staal-MDZ
Girardi-Sangs
Redden-Gilroy

then we'd still have McDonagh who will probably play in HFD till we can get rid of Redden or maybe trade Girardi and Sauer and Potter still rotting on the side lines.

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Old
09-30-2009, 03:41 PM
  #116
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He's listed as No. 4 on the Rangers website now.

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Old
09-30-2009, 03:53 PM
  #117
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He's listed as No. 4 on the Rangers website now.
As i figured. You make the team, you pick your number.

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Old
09-30-2009, 03:55 PM
  #118
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Devils Fan here and since I really can't wish you luck with Del Zotto, I'll just say that the only thing I don't like about him is that he plays for the Rangers.

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09-30-2009, 04:07 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
You don't start shopping defensemen until you know what's going on.

The value to a Stanley Cup team goes like this: G, D, C, W.

I remember we had Blackburn, Holmqvist, Asplund and the guy who was left out: Lundqvist. How would trading him at the time have looked right now?

Let's fill up our top 6, then we'll talk. It would be nice to have 6 young deefnsemen, 4 of whom would be underpaid because they just made the NHL.

It will free up a lot of cap space in case we need to acquire someone like Heatley (not him, just another guy of similar ability who is available in a couple of years).

Remember, in 1994, our forwards weren't great. The second line was Matteau - Tikkanen - Larmer. Not horrible, but hardly a great line. The third line was Gilbert - MacTavish - Noonan. Again, not bad, but nothing spectacular.

What helped us was the spectacular goaltending we got from Richter and the amazing defensive corps. The one thing that the Rangers had that was significantly better than anyone else was defense. The perfect #1, the perfect offensive defenseman, the perfect defensive defenseman, the perfect veteran with Cup-winning experience. That was our top 4. And the next 3 (Wells, Lidster, Karpovtsev) were also very good for the job that was assigned to them.

Defensemen are key. Let's hold off on trading them.
i agree with this post, except for you recollection of our cup lines. larmer was not horrible. he was awesome. kovalev was our 2nd line center that season.

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09-30-2009, 04:43 PM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
You don't start shopping defensemen until you know what's going on.

The value to a Stanley Cup team goes like this: G, D, C, W.

I remember we had Blackburn, Holmqvist, Asplund and the guy who was left out: Lundqvist. How would trading him at the time have looked right now?

Let's fill up our top 6, then we'll talk. It would be nice to have 6 young deefnsemen, 4 of whom would be underpaid because they just made the NHL.

It will free up a lot of cap space in case we need to acquire someone like Heatley (not him, just another guy of similar ability who is available in a couple of years).

Remember, in 1994, our forwards weren't great. The second line was Matteau - Tikkanen - Larmer. Not horrible, but hardly a great line. The third line was Gilbert - MacTavish - Noonan. Again, not bad, but nothing spectacular.

What helped us was the spectacular goaltending we got from Richter and the amazing defensive corps. The one thing that the Rangers had that was significantly better than anyone else was defense. The perfect #1, the perfect offensive defenseman, the perfect defensive defenseman, the perfect veteran with Cup-winning experience. That was our top 4. And the next 3 (Wells, Lidster, Karpovtsev) were also very good for the job that was assigned to them.

Defensemen are key. Let's hold off on trading them.
You touched a nerve here. Steve Larmer was a huge part of the Stanley Cup team. He scored a bunch of important goals and brought defensive responsibility to the team. At the very moment the Rangers won The Cup, while everyone else is celebrating, he is finishing his check. When the Rangers traded for him, their fortunes improved dramatically. He retired very young (35 I think) with well over 400 goals. He's a borderline HOFer.

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Old
09-30-2009, 04:49 PM
  #121
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larmer was sick

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Old
09-30-2009, 05:18 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
You don't start shopping defensemen until you know what's going on.

The value to a Stanley Cup team goes like this: G, D, C, W.

I remember we had Blackburn, Holmqvist, Asplund and the guy who was left out: Lundqvist. How would trading him at the time have looked right now?

Let's fill up our top 6, then we'll talk. It would be nice to have 6 young deefnsemen, 4 of whom would be underpaid because they just made the NHL.

It will free up a lot of cap space in case we need to acquire someone like Heatley (not him, just another guy of similar ability who is available in a couple of years).

Remember, in 1994, our forwards weren't great. The second line was Matteau - Tikkanen - Larmer. Not horrible, but hardly a great line. The third line was Gilbert - MacTavish - Noonan. Again, not bad, but nothing spectacular.

What helped us was the spectacular goaltending we got from Richter and the amazing defensive corps. The one thing that the Rangers had that was significantly better than anyone else was defense. The perfect #1, the perfect offensive defenseman, the perfect defensive defenseman, the perfect veteran with Cup-winning experience. That was our top 4. And the next 3 (Wells, Lidster, Karpovtsev) were also very good for the job that was assigned to them.

Defensemen are key. Let's hold off on trading them.
While I agree that defense is an important piece to the cup, you are really selling the forwards short on the 1994 team.

The first line was Graves-Messier-Anderson and the second line was Matteau-Kovalev-Larmer. That's a pretty solid top 6. Tikkanen and MacTavish helped to round out the bottom 6. Damn good forwards if you ask me.

Forwards are equally as important to defensemen, and sometimes moreso, depending on the team. Look at Pittsburgh last year - Gonchar, Letang, Scuderi, Gill, Orpik, etc. A solid defense but pales in comparison to Detroit. It was really the forwards, and Fleury, who came through for Pitt.

A better example may be the 2006 Carolina team. Their defense included Ward, Hedican, Wesley, Kaberle, Commodore, Wallin. Talk about a no-name defense.

I like our defensemen, but it's pretty clear that scoring is a weakness on this team and we can certainly use some more skilled forwards in the system. Because of our defensive depth, it wouldn't surprise me if some of our defensemen are eventually traded away.

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Old
09-30-2009, 06:02 PM
  #123
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This friggin' rules.

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Old
09-30-2009, 06:19 PM
  #124
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Larmer was great. But the line as a whole wasn't the best second line in the league. Tikkanen was a great third liner, but a so-so top-6 forward. Matteau, two OT goals aside, was a quality third liner.

I am talking about our lines once Kovalev moved to Messier's wing and Anderson dumped to the fourth line.

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09-30-2009, 06:34 PM
  #125
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MDZ or Gilroy.

who would be the guy to have in a pool then guys....

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