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2009/10 - Lines Discussion - (ES/PP/PK) - Part II

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Old
09-30-2009, 04:02 PM
  #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
If you want a veteran with Giroux/JVR, I am fine with either Asham or Lappy.

However, not to get too specific here, but you do realize that Asham has been around forever and Powe got his first crack at the NHL last year. You have to assume that Powe is going to improve and get better where as we have seen the best of Asham.

Based on those statistics, which are not far off at all....I say Powe>>>>>Asham.
You also have to consider that just a straight shot of total minutes vs. points produced is a bit skewed considering Powe killed penalties for this team and Asham didn't.

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09-30-2009, 05:22 PM
  #177
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what are your point predictions for giroux? do you think he'd be a smarter pick than gomez, stajan, langkow, horton, okposo, peverley, mueller, zajac, brown, and drury?

thanks!

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09-30-2009, 05:39 PM
  #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jd2210 View Post
Yeah me either. We'll see.

I E-mailed my hard core buddy in Sweden to get his take on what we've seen so far on Pyro versus what he has seen over the past few years. his response was basically that yes Pyro is still developing and is for sure a late bloomer so you never know but he feels that Pyro is still a better fit on a third line and to be used as a 2 way steady performer kind of guy.

On another note he did point out that he likes that Pyro is paired with Richards. He feels those two could really have some shutdown capabilites against teams like the caps and Pens. Through preseason I've been looking a lot more at the offensive side of his game, but I think come playoff time his two way play is what we'll all like.
Exactly. I mean, any time you have Briere, Carter, Hartnell, Giroux, and JVR on your other 2 lines, offense shouldn't be a massive problem.

I'm hoping that a Gagne-Richie-Pyro line, while being able to chip in offensively, can become a serious shutdown line that we can match up against other teams' top lines.

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09-30-2009, 05:50 PM
  #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KratomKhrist View Post
what are your point predictions for giroux? do you think he'd be a smarter pick than gomez, stajan, langkow, horton, okposo, peverley, mueller, zajac, brown, and drury?

thanks!
I would say he'll be a 20G, 35-40A guy this season. Of those listed, I'd take Gomez, Horton, Zajac, and Brown before I picked Giroux.

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Old
09-30-2009, 06:18 PM
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
If you want a veteran with Giroux/JVR, I am fine with either Asham or Lappy.

However, not to get too specific here, but you do realize that Asham has been around forever and Powe got his first crack at the NHL last year. You have to assume that Powe is going to improve and get better where as we have seen the best of Asham.

Based on those statistics, which are not far off at all....I say Powe>>>>>Asham.
I agree, but in the long run. Powe can and hopefully will still continue to develop, but Asham is by far the better player right now.

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Old
09-30-2009, 06:26 PM
  #181
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Quote:
You also have to consider that just a straight shot of total minutes vs. points produced is a bit skewed considering Powe killed penalties for this team and Asham didn't.
Didn't Powe get most of his points last year while playing with Giroux and Briere while Asham was on the 4th line?

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Old
09-30-2009, 06:53 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Didn't Powe get most of his points last year while playing with Giroux and Briere while Asham was on the 4th line?
They both spent time on the "third" line.

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09-30-2009, 06:59 PM
  #183
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yeah Giroux set Asham up for some nice goals too

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Old
09-30-2009, 07:00 PM
  #184
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They both spent time on the "third" line.
It seemed to me that Powe got way more time and way more chances on that line though, especially when Briere came back. At least that's how I remember it.

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09-30-2009, 07:08 PM
  #185
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I dont think it was significantly more.

from dobber hockey:

Asham's most common line was(by total ice time)
Quote:
10.7% EV 45 ASHAM,ARRON - 48 BRIERE,DANIEL - 28 GIROUX,CLAUDE
Powe's most common line was( by total ice time)
Quote:
14.74% EV 28 GIROUX,CLAUDE - 36 POWE,DARROLL - 9 UPSHALL,SCOTTIE

Powe played more with Upshall and Giroux, and not much once Briere got Back

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Old
09-30-2009, 10:47 PM
  #186
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So I read JVR is going to be in front of the net on the powerplay taking Knuble's spot. Where is Giroux going to be on the PP?

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Old
09-30-2009, 11:05 PM
  #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brtriad View Post
So I read JVR is going to be in front of the net on the powerplay taking Knuble's spot. Where is Giroux going to be on the PP?

They've been talking about that as an issue lately. I haven't really heard much about it other than WIP announcers saying "Stevens will get him PP time."

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Old
09-30-2009, 11:49 PM
  #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
I dont think it was significantly more.

from dobber hockey:

Asham's most common line was(by total ice time)


Powe's most common line was( by total ice time)



Powe played more with Upshall and Giroux, and not much once Briere got Back
That's a tough one to read because there is so much noise past the bottom 6. Especially with Briere, who was in and out for so much of the year. In the playoffs, Powe was a fixture with Briere/Giroux, which is what sticks in people's minds.

Due to injuries...really hard to use those type of statistics as you go down the depth chart. Gotta kind of look at the ideal as opposed to the reality.

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Old
10-01-2009, 01:24 AM
  #189
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What are your guys thoughts on the PP forward lines?

Is Carle going to stay with Pronger as a pair or have they been splitting up for the PP?

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Old
10-01-2009, 08:40 AM
  #190
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In terms of offensive skill and upside, is JVR comparable to Giroux? Sounds like they've been paired together often in the pre-season but both might a fair amount of Top 6 and PP time as well? You guys have a pretty scary looking team, especially if Emery can play well / keep his cool....

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Old
10-01-2009, 08:43 AM
  #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Giroux actually came up as a RW, but Stevens likes him as a Center.

After watching Giroux play, I really can't argue with Steven's on that one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
Giroux is actually a natural winger, but he did so well as a center, and it plays so well to his skillset.

Our top 3 lines will see pretty even minutes at even strength as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSTAFF View Post
Maybe you guys should tank for another 3 years to re-up your prospect pool? Die penguin die.

BTW thanks to Irish and DU for the info above. As for tanking, I think we'll wait a few more years. We thought about tanking for Tavares last year but it just didn't make sense.

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Old
10-01-2009, 12:03 PM
  #192
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From another thread, the lines today in practice were:

Hartnell Carter Briere
Gagne Richards Pyorola
JVR Powe Giroux
Carcillo Betts Lappy

I don't hate those at all. I think JVR would be best used if Giroux was in the middle but Powe's forchecking would come in very handy with those two. I wish there was still a place for Asham though. I really like him. I'd almost rather we sat Carcillo but I know that won't be popular thought around here. I just feel like Asham takes less stupid penalties, but on the other hand having both Cote and Carcillo out may not be wise.

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10-01-2009, 12:21 PM
  #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jd2210 View Post
From another thread, the lines today in practice were:

Hartnell Carter Briere
Gagne Richards Pyorola
JVR Powe Giroux
Carcillo Betts Lappy

I don't hate those at all. I think JVR would be best used if Giroux was in the middle but Powe's forchecking would come in very handy with those two. I wish there was still a place for Asham though. I really like him. I'd almost rather we sat Carcillo but I know that won't be popular thought around here. I just feel like Asham takes less stupid penalties, but on the other hand having both Cote and Carcillo out may not be wise.
my vote is for putting asham on the giroux JVR line and dropping powe/carcillo depending on how tough the opposing team is

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10-01-2009, 12:37 PM
  #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hubey1327 View Post
my vote is for putting asham on the giroux JVR line and dropping powe/carcillo depending on how tough the opposing team is
Seconded.

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Old
10-01-2009, 12:58 PM
  #195
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The problem with carcillo is that he has so much potential when he plays the game right to be a damn good hockey player. Far better than Asham. But because of his stupid penalties, we find that asham is by far the more calming influence on the team

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10-01-2009, 01:23 PM
  #196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jd2210 View Post
From another thread, the lines today in practice were:

Hartnell Carter Briere
Gagne Richards Pyorola
JVR Powe Giroux
Carcillo Betts Lappy

I don't hate those at all. I think JVR would be best used if Giroux was in the middle but Powe's forchecking would come in very handy with those two. I wish there was still a place for Asham though. I really like him. I'd almost rather we sat Carcillo but I know that won't be popular thought around here. I just feel like Asham takes less stupid penalties, but on the other hand having both Cote and Carcillo out may not be wise.
Im fine with that. With Powe/Carcillo/Lappy/Asham rotating

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Old
10-01-2009, 01:25 PM
  #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
The problem with carcillo is that he has so much potential when he plays the game right to be a damn good hockey player. Far better than Asham. But because of his stupid penalties, we find that asham is by far the more calming influence on the team
Mental conditioning is part of a player's skillset though, right? I like Carcillo, but I'd take Asham first, because I know Asham is not going to hurt the team with dumb penalties night after night.

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Old
10-01-2009, 01:27 PM
  #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
The problem with carcillo is that he has so much potential when he plays the game right to be a damn good hockey player. Far better than Asham. But because of his stupid penalties, we find that asham is by far the more calming influence on the team
That's why having Carcillo spend time on a line with Laperriere is probably the best thing that can happen to him. Laperriere can take Carcillo under his wing and point out when to pick his spots. Once Carcillo learns that, he'll be able to move onto a line like Giroux/JVR and be able to contribute without getting in trouble. Stevens and Holmgren have already mentioned that the learning curve for Carcillo starts this year and so far, other than an incident or two in the pre-season, he's been pretty good and under control. He's going to have to keep that up during the regular season.

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Old
10-01-2009, 01:28 PM
  #199
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Having Asham as an extra forward will be fine. he is best on the 4th line, but could fill in anywhere for a game or 2. Might not do great, but can hold his own. And of course we will have injuries.....

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10-01-2009, 01:35 PM
  #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mm6492 View Post
Having Asham as an extra forward will be fine. he is best on the 4th line, but could fill in anywhere for a game or 2. Might not do great, but can hold his own. And of course we will have injuries.....
When the extra forward is a guy like Asham, it's a sign of a quality hockey team. The guy is obviously a bottom 6 forward but he knows how to play hockey and contribute. Whoever the extra forward is will get plenty of playing time. We generally dominate the league in games lost to injury. Only the Islanders beat us and they have the ringer in Dipietro to get them over the top. Though I guess Forsberg gave us an advantage when he was here... sigh.

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