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Babchuk to Avangard Omsk (KHL)

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Old
09-28-2009, 03:27 AM
  #51
CarolinaHurricanes85
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Blueline Bomber, have you actually had the opportunity (or unfortunate opportunity) to meet Anton like many other 'Canes/Hawks (at the time) have?

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09-28-2009, 07:41 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
Still doesn't explain why JR couldn't get it done. If Babs was only asking for 1.5, there's no way other GMs weren't at the very least inquiring about him.
I'm really wondering if there was really much interest at all. I mean, any GM could have put an offer sheet to Anton for 1.5M and only give up a 3rd round draft pick. That's peanuts.

JR would have had to match it or let Babchuk go for the 3rd.

I would guess that either no other GM's thought Anton was worth that much -or- they did indeed provide and offer sheet for about that much but Anton (and/or his agent) didn't sign it as they wanted more.

I guess we'll never know for sure.

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Old
09-28-2009, 08:27 AM
  #53
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Isn't Babchuk's new agent also an agent for another Cane?

If so, then I don't think JR would be able to get away with spreading lies to the local media. The agent would find out, and I'm sure would let the media know the "truth" to set the record straight. Would be a very stupid move by JR to do such a thing when it can affect other players in the organization through the relationship with the agent, too.

When you take all of that into consideration, things sure don't look so great for Babchuk in all of this. After all, JR may know how to play hardball, but he isn't an idiot.

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Old
09-28-2009, 09:07 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
Well, I'm assuming that's why he asked to be traded. He tried to handle it one way, and JR apparently wasn't getting it done. So, he took the other option available to him.

Still doesn't explain why JR couldn't get it done. If Babs was only asking for 1.5, there's no way other GMs weren't at the very least inquiring about him.

Of course, behind the scenes, etc. Seems to be enough to condemn Babchuk, but never enough to question JR.
Whose to say those 2-3 teams who have been stated as being interested wanted to give Babchuk a 3 year contract. Is it not possible that those interested teams ONLY wanted to offer a 1 year contract in order for Babchuk to PROVE himself. Sure he scored 16 goals, but the guy is a defensive liability, can't skate, is slow, and needs his hand held to keep his confidence up. IMO, it'll be a bit hard finding a team willing to throw 3 years at a guy that they aren't sure will be a good fit for their team, a guy who has had problems in the past.

Now that those interested teams moved on, Babchuk has no choice but to sign in Russia for $500K more than what was first originally offered.

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09-28-2009, 09:10 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncpuckhog View Post
I'm really wondering if there was really much interest at all. I mean, any GM could have put an offer sheet to Anton for 1.5M and only give up a 3rd round draft pick. That's peanuts.

JR would have had to match it or let Babchuk go for the 3rd.

I would guess that either no other GM's thought Anton was worth that much -or- they did indeed provide and offer sheet for about that much but Anton (and/or his agent) didn't sign it as they wanted more.

I guess we'll never know for sure.

That has kinda been my line of thinking aswell. If JR simply couldn't get 'what he wanted' out of teams via trade, if those teams had enough interest they could have easily said 'alright, we'll sacrifice the 3rd and throw you an offer sheet' of 1.5 which at that time would have been 500k more than JR was offering or right on what JR was offering. I'd say there wasn't much interest in Babchuk and the majority can likely figure out why.

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09-28-2009, 09:37 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by caneshockeyguy View Post
Blueline Bomber, have you actually had the opportunity (or unfortunate opportunity) to meet Anton like many other 'Canes/Hawks (at the time) have?
I have, though I'm sure I've had a different experience than most. Yeah, he started out quiet and reserved, loner-ish if you must use that term (though I don't believe anyone part of a team can be considered a loner). And I'm sure most took that one experience and wrote it off as Babchuk being a jerk (to use a PC term).

But, like most people I'm sure, if you put the effort into getting to know him, he was no different than any of the other players. I've actually asked him why he put up that shield and he's said it's because in the past, most people who talk to him either mention the Albany thing (which is just a great way to start up a conversation) or want to talk to him about the other players.

I've actually found Corvo and Brindamour to be more standoffish than Babchuk.

As for why no other GM didn't offer Babs an offer sheet, I'm not really an expert on RFAs/offer sheets/etc. (frankly, they confuse the crap out of me), but I do know that GMs frown upon the use of offer sheets. Sort of an unwritten rule, code of trust violation, whathaveyou. I imagine that making an offer sheet to a player that's openly on the trading block probably doesn't help that code of trust either.

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09-28-2009, 10:29 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
As for why no other GM didn't offer Babs an offer sheet, I'm not really an expert on RFAs/offer sheets/etc. (frankly, they confuse the crap out of me), but I do know that GMs frown upon the use of offer sheets. Sort of an unwritten rule, code of trust violation, whathaveyou. I imagine that making an offer sheet to a player that's openly on the trading block probably doesn't help that code of trust either.
I dont think the GM code has anything to do with this case. JR was never trying to lock Babs up long term so the offer sheet doesnt blow up any organizational plans. Its more likely the GMs thought they could get Babs for less than the 3rd rounder....JR called their bluff... and Anton is back in Russia. I think it is more likely that JR used the offer sheet compensation as the base market value for Anton and no GM would offer that much, assuming JR was going to be forced to move Anton regardless of value.

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09-28-2009, 01:53 PM
  #58
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Well, unless there's some proof on your part, it's guesswork by the both of us.

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09-28-2009, 03:20 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
Well, unless there's some proof on your part, it's guesswork by the both of us.
More like adding up the circumstantial evidence and coming to a logical conclusion.

Good lord...

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Old
09-28-2009, 04:37 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by geehaad View Post
More like adding up the circumstantial evidence and coming to a logical conclusion.

Good lord...
There's nothing logical about losing a young goalscoring defenseman for nothing, no matter what issues surround him. Like I said before, JR's handling of the situation from the getgo was very un-GM-like, especially if he believed he would have to trade Babchuk later in the offseason.

And when it comes out that JR had offers on the table, but they weren't up to his asking price for a guy he publicly trashed all offseason, it just makes it all the more questionable.

But please, let's look at it logically. Clearly, money wasn't the reason a deal wasn't getting done, since Babs signed for a low amount in the KHL.

So that leaves two explanations:
1. Teams were wary about offering a 3-year deal to Babs.
2. JR was asking far too much for Babchuk

The 3-year deal was mentioned early in the offseason. Past that, nothing. Now, logically speaking, if Babs wanted to stay in the NHL, he (like many FAs that go teamless throughout the offseason) would likely have lowered that year amount to a point acceptable to other NHL teams.

JR last said he was "just hoping to get a young defensive prospect" late in the offseason. Logically speaking, that means he was either asking for that amount throughout the offseason and getting no takers (meaning he was asking for too much), or he was asking for much more than that early in the offseason and had to lower the price as the offseason progressed (which explains why he'd have teams that would call, then never call back). Judging by the wording of the statement, I'd guess the latter.

But again, both are guesswork.

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09-28-2009, 09:03 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
But again, both are guesswork.
Here's the part I can't get over: for $1.5M, any GM could have had him for a 3rd round pick. If this is all JR's fault, and Babchuk is worth it, why didn't that happen?

Whether you understand the CBA or not, you pretty much need an answer to that before you can reasonably pin the blame on JR.

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09-28-2009, 09:13 PM
  #62
DaveG
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That's what I'm getting out of this. The teams offering for Babchuk were either offering older players, which we don't need, or were offering crap prospects that have very little chance of reaching the NHL. If JR thought they were offering something of equal or greater value to a 3rd he'd probably be gone.

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09-28-2009, 10:47 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
That's what I'm getting out of this. The teams offering for Babchuk were either offering older players, which we don't need, or were offering crap prospects that have very little chance of reaching the NHL. If JR thought they were offering something of equal or greater value to a 3rd he'd probably be gone.
I'm thinking the same thing. There was probably interest, but no good offers. JR talking to the media saying there was one or two offers on the table he was considering might have been a way to try getting them to up their offers to something better. They don't, JR keeps holding out, then Babchuk bolts to the KHL as the seasons start so he can play.

That's what I'd figure to how it happened.

Basically it comes down to at least one of three things, though:
1) The other teams didn't offer enough.
2) JR was holding out for more.
3) Babchuk was holding out for more (money or years - most likely a sign and trade would be involved, and so he could have been asking for too much of one or the other).

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Old
09-28-2009, 10:52 PM
  #64
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In other news Stralman just fetched a 3rd round pick from Columbus. Methinks that would have been Babchuk had he decided to stay in North America. I do not doubt for a moment they were the prime candidate.

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Old
09-28-2009, 11:55 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geehaad View Post
Here's the part I can't get over: for $1.5M, any GM could have had him for a 3rd round pick. If this is all JR's fault, and Babchuk is worth it, why didn't that happen?

Whether you understand the CBA or not, you pretty much need an answer to that before you can reasonably pin the blame on JR.
Because as already stated, they believed JR was in a bind and they could get Babchuk for less. No need to pay more than you have to.

JR wasn't in a bind, though he would have been if he cared at all about killing a player's NHL career. JR didn't care one way or the other if Babchuk left for the KHL. In fact, he spent 2/3rds of the offseason trying to convince everyone that Babchuk was packed and ready to go, despite claims to the opposite from Babchuk himself.

Then when he finally realizes Babchuk wasn't going to be leaving, he starts trying to trade him, but somehow failed to realize all those claims about the KHL have negatively affected Babchuk's value. So when you call up GMs and say "Hey, you know that player I said had one step out the door? How about you give me that shiny, young prospect for him?", it doesn't bode so well.

Whatever offers JR got for Babs, he should have taken. With the way he handled the entire situation, it was likely the market value for Babs at the time. Instead, he tries to strong arm when he's not in the position of power, and he's left with nothing.

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09-29-2009, 09:51 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
Whatever offers JR got for Babs, he should have taken.
"There's nothing logical about losing a young goalscoring defenseman for nothing"

"Nothing" means different things to different folks. We've heard that JR wanted a 2nd rounder for him, so a 3rd probably wasn't good enough, and a 4th is probably considered "nothing".

And let's not forget that Babchuk is still Canes' property. If he takes that next step as a defenseman in the KHL, JR might be able to turn him for that coveted 2nd rounder, or [gasp] sign him to return to the Hurricanes lineup in 2010-11.

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09-29-2009, 05:35 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geehaad View Post
"There's nothing logical about losing a young goalscoring defenseman for nothing"

"Nothing" means different things to different folks. We've heard that JR wanted a 2nd rounder for him, so a 3rd probably wasn't good enough, and a 4th is probably considered "nothing".

And let's not forget that Babchuk is still Canes' property. If he takes that next step as a defenseman in the KHL, JR might be able to turn him for that coveted 2nd rounder, or [gasp] sign him to return to the Hurricanes lineup in 2010-11.
Except (and I may have stated this earlier, topic's been beaten to death) anytime you've got a player that's fled to Russia twice in the past 5 years, their value is next to nothing, because of the possibility of it happening again.

The first time, you can maybe write off. He was young, got some bad advice, whathaveyou. When a player goes to the KHL while under contract twice, 99% chance, he's not coming back. And that 1% chance is on the basis that he suddenly becomes Orr reincarnated over seas.

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Old
10-01-2009, 04:22 PM
  #68
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On a more lighter note, I was listening to that dumb Zambonis album a minute ago and could not help but think of this song as Anton Babchuk's theme:

Quote:
Slapshot man, that's who I am,
put me in the game that's your best plan.
Don't bother with the trap or man to man,
'cause I'm a slapshot man.

Stop, you have no chance,
I will have to warn you in advance.
When it comes to political stance, I'm a slapshot man.

He winds up, but he never fans,
just you try to block it if you can.
If it ever winds up in the stands, call an ambulance.
yeah yeah yeah!

Slapshot man, that's who I am,
and my power rules on ice or land.
Whether on the pond or in the sand,
the puck's at my command.

He's slapshot man, and he entertains.
Backhands and wrist shots all seem so lame,
next to him Al MacInnis is tame.
He puts the goalies to shame.
yeah yeah yeah!

I'm slapshot man, I know it ain't right,
but I even wind up when i'm in tight.
I don't ever mean to start a fight,
the ref gets so uptight.

Slapshot man, goalies call in sick,
nightmares of the puck coming off his stick.
The thought of a shutout is as unrealistic,
yeah it's the slapshot man.
Yeah yeah yeah! (alright!)

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Old
10-01-2009, 08:27 PM
  #69
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Latest Babchuk's Interview in Russian media.

There were only two questions related to his time in Carolina and i've translated it for you:

Quote:
-Anton, your new contract negotiations with Carolina took quite some time. Why did it fail?

- We simply were not able to negotiate the amount for new agreement. I was offered to play one more season of the same. I thought that one million before taxes is not the salary I should agree with. I wasn’t qualified for salary arbitration. However, in other teams players with similar stats make 3 or 4 times more.

- Carolina GM said that you were trying to find a loophole in the system.

- I don’t understand. What kind of system? I came to Carolina from Omsk last summer. They wanted to see what I could do. I proved that I could be useful for the team. Why wouldn’t team change the agreement? If Carolina didn’t want to do it, I decided that if they didn’t want it then I didn’t need it. My Russian agent was in negotiations with Omsk. Omsk had my rights in KHL. As soon as we found a compromise I decided to join Omsk. I was really tired of negotiations. I wanted to finally start playing some hockey.

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Old
11-01-2009, 03:14 PM
  #70
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wonder wtf Rutherford thinks about this now? He had to trade for 36 year old Aaron Freakin Ward and pay him $2.5 million rather than give Babchuk a small raise from his $1 million!
Ward is now -8 and has a single assist in 13 games. It all went downhill after that stupid move!

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11-01-2009, 03:21 PM
  #71
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In all honesty, as good as Babchuk was offensively for a chunk of time last year, I really don't believe he would make any difference in terms of winning and losing with this team. Babchuk would likely be fitting right in and looking like garbage. He may have scored a PP goal or two, but he definitely wouldn't be helping our league worst 50 goals against through 13 games.

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11-01-2009, 03:30 PM
  #72
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If having Babchuk meant Wallin would have had less time on the ice, then we win.

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11-01-2009, 03:30 PM
  #73
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The big one JR should be kicking himself over is bringing in Ward for the same price as Seidenberg. His mobility and transition game from the blueline is quite obviously sorely missed. Especially after having added some physicality already with the Alberts signing, I hate to say it but Ward was entirely redundant. He's the type of guy you pick up at the deadline, not at the start of a season.

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Old
11-01-2009, 03:37 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teddygmr View Post
Ward is now -8 and has a single assist in 13 games. It all went downhill after that stupid move!
Yup, that was the straw that broke the camel's back.


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Old
11-01-2009, 03:47 PM
  #75
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I'd have to think Babchuk would have at least helped our PP this year. It's quite obvious that we've got a lot of passing, no shooting on the PP. Babchuk's shot would help tremendously.

Especially considering Babchuk apparently hasn't lost his touch in his transfer to the KHL. More points than anyone on the Carolina roster and only Whitney has more goals than Babchuk.

Having Babs probably wouldn't help us win many more games this year, but he certainly would have been an improvement over some of the players we're putting out there.

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