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Michigan seeks to introduce Ticket Tax

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Old
10-02-2009, 11:28 AM
  #1
VooX
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Michigan seeks to introduce Ticket Tax

I received this email from the Detroit Red Wings:

Quote:
Dear Red Wings' fans,

As you may have heard by now, the Governor and the Michigan Legislature are seriously considering charging sports fans a 6-percent luxury tax on all professional and college sports tickets sold in Michigan.

This tax would be applied to tickets for major league and minor league baseball, football, hockey, basketball and auto racing. It would tickets to all college sports including football, hockey and basketball. It would also add a ticket tax to all concerts, shows and could even include movie tickets at a total cost of over $100 million per year.

This tax is not on the sports teams – it is on you – the fans. And all of us at the Red Wing's organization believe it is wrong to target the working families

This ticket tax would cost a family of four from $597 to more than $1,900 per year on their Red Wings' season tickets. Michigan would be the only state in the region to tax families attending movies, sporting events and concerts.

Fans Against the Ticket Tax was started to inform citizens of the potential for this legislation and to fight against this tax. We wanted to make you aware of this proposal and encourage you to speak out to the Governor and your representatives and senators in Lansing.

If you would like to voice your opinion on this issue, you can do the following:

1. Go to www.NoTicketTax.com to join in the effort and tell the governor and your legislator what you think about the ticket tax. Let them know there should NOT be a luxury tax on taking your family to a hockey game.

2. Send this email to all your friends and encourage them to get involved. Every email or phone call to Lansing will send a clear message that Michigan sports fans do not want the ticket tax.

Thanks for your help.

Go Wings!
This could have serious ramifications in Michigan for all teams. Very poor timing for the government to try a tax grab. Michigan politicians can be so backwards sometimes.

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10-02-2009, 11:45 AM
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The Jamison
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I guess they dont want people to go down town and spend money...

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10-02-2009, 11:48 AM
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Winger98
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Seeing news of things like this makes me wonder why I want to move back there.

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10-02-2009, 12:07 PM
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I would just like to point out that you people currently in Michigan elected these dodo's, in many cases you've elected them multiple times, and that your shockingly poor ability to select competent political leaders is a) why I left the state almost four years ago now and have passed on two excellent opportunities to return, b) why the state is in a complete tailspin which isn't anywhere near over yet (and I mean nowhere close. It is going to get exponentially worse in Michigan.) and c) why you get mind-numbingly horrendous suggestions from 'leadership' like this idea of a ticket tax.

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10-02-2009, 12:12 PM
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detredWINgs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
I would just like to point out that you people currently in Michigan elected these dodo's, in many cases you've elected them multiple times, and that your shockingly poor ability to select competent political leaders is a) why I left the state almost four years ago now and have passed on two excellent opportunities to return, b) why the state is in a complete tailspin which isn't anywhere near over yet (and I mean nowhere close. It is going to get exponentially worse in Michigan.) and c) why you get mind-numbingly horrendous suggestions from 'leadership' like this idea of a ticket tax.
First of all, Michigan politicians passing taxes such as these is NOTHING out of the ordinary. Second of all, the entire reason the state is in this position to begin with has nothing do with politicians. It has everything to do with the union auto workers who forced the hands of the big three, which is the primary reason why the state is floundering to begin with. Without the Big Three, Michigan is nothing.

This process has been in place long before many of the people that post on this board were even born, let alone able to vote. But like most critics of politicians, you're incredibly shortsighted.

Do you blame Obama for the economic crisis, too?

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10-02-2009, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
First of all, Michigan politicians passing taxes such as these is NOTHING out of the ordinary. Second of all, the entire reason the state is in this position to begin with has nothing do with politicians. It has everything to do with the union auto workers who forced the hands of the big three, which is the primary reason why the state is floundering to begin with. Without the Big Three, Michigan is nothing.

This process has been in place long before many of the people that post on this board were even born, let alone able to vote. But like most critics of politicians, you're incredibly shortsighted.

Do you blame Obama for the economic crisis, too?
Michigan's decline was caused by the globalization of the auto industry. For decades Michigan's economy thrived, as did the Big Three, in a partnership with the UAW. It wasn't until imports started undercutting prices and selling products with superior quality, thereby cutting into the Big Three's market share, in the 70's that caused the bottom to fall out. Since that time Michigan has been in decline, with the pace of decline fluctuating between slow and very fast.

If this were just a UAW problem, then we should not see the entire U.S. manufacturing base collapse as it is doing. Globalization and excessive consumption of imported goods have put us at a disadvantage.

However, the second part I bolded is something I could not agree more with. Blaming the current government in Michigan, California or even in DC for the current problems we're facing is ludicrous. These are inherited problems, many of which have their roots as far back as the Reagan administration, if not even further. We should feel sorry for the brave souls who choose to get into politics today, not berate them for things they didn't cause.


As far as the ticket tax, I'm in favor of it. Attending an event is a luxury that many people can't afford, particularly now. You don't want to pay the tax? Then don't go to the game / concert / whatever. I am doubtful that it will actually become law, but it wouldn't bother me at all if it does. I've got way bigger things to worry about that some possible tax that would cost me less than $50 a year.

-edit
Just to clarify, the proposal is a 6% tax on tickets, essentially matching the sales tax rate. So unless you spend a considerable sum of money on various tickets throughout the year (in which case you have considerable disposable income) then this is much ado about next to nothing. In order for this to cost you $50 you have to spend over $833 on tickets in a year.

So that "family of four" example in the Red Wings email are already spending $9,950 dollars on season tickets. Really, the family can afford to drop 10k on season tickets, but an extra $600 is a deal breaker?

It's a luxury tax, plain and simple. I'm all in favor of it, but there are probably too many detractors for it to actually become law.


Last edited by doublejack: 10-02-2009 at 12:56 PM.
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10-02-2009, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
First of all, Michigan politicians passing taxes such as these is NOTHING out of the ordinary.
Sadly, that is true.

Quote:
Second of all, the entire reason the state is in this position to begin with has nothing do with politicians. It has everything to do with the union auto workers who forced the hands of the big three, which is the primary reason why the state is floundering to begin with. Without the Big Three, Michigan is nothing.
I would like to take a moment to introduce you to the idea that the UAW is also a political entity, and has been for the better part of, what... 50 years?

Quote:
This process has been in place long before many of the people that post on this board were even born, let alone able to vote. But like most critics of politicians, you're incredibly shortsighted.

Do you blame Obama for the economic crisis, too?


Speaking of shortsighted...

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10-02-2009, 01:42 PM
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I'm all in favor of this tax or any other "consumption tax". I prefer that in place of income taxes or property taxes anyday.

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10-02-2009, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Booyah! View Post
I'm all in favor of this tax or any other "consumption tax". I prefer that in place of income taxes or property taxes anyday.
I am in agreement about consumption taxes. Those who have money, spend money, and pay more taxes.

However, despite the somewhat simplistic economics behind it which aren't 100% sound, a government is better off leaving some money in the pockets of taxpayers by not introducing taxes during economic troubles.

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10-02-2009, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VooX View Post
I am in agreement about consumption taxes. Those who have money, spend money, and pay more taxes.

However, despite the somewhat simplistic economics behind it which aren't 100% sound, a government is better off leaving some money in the pockets of taxpayers by not introducing taxes during economic troubles.
That's a catch-22. Ideally, you are correct in that governments should not roll out new taxes when money is tight. The reason is because consumer spending is historically the biggest factor in turning around a recession. Therefore any new tax, which by nature reduces disposable income, is counterproductive to a recovery.

However, if there can be one exception to this it is luxury taxes like a ticket tax. The people who are suffering the most are definitely not spending thousands of dollars on tickets right now (if they are they should have their head examined). There will surely be some people who decide the tax puts the cost of the tickets over their threshold, and that will result in less money being spent. But the impact is debatable. I personally feel it would be quite small. The people who feel they can afford to go are still going to go. If $8 beers and $5 slices of pizza don't stop them, tacking a 6% tax onto their ticket price (perhaps causing a $50 ticket to cost $53) is not going to stop them.

So in a perfect world I'm all in favor of reducing the income tax, or some other non-discretionary tax, and offsetting the tax revenue with a consumption / luxury tax like a ticket tax. But in a time of crisis when the state is facing a massive budget shortfall and we can't cut services further without severe repercussions, then what other choice is there but to implement some new taxes? And if we have to do that, then why not a tax like this?

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Old
10-02-2009, 03:01 PM
  #11
detredWINgs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejack View Post
Michigan's decline was caused by the globalization of the auto industry. For decades Michigan's economy thrived, as did the Big Three, in a partnership with the UAW. It wasn't until imports started undercutting prices and selling products with superior quality, thereby cutting into the Big Three's market share, in the 70's that caused the bottom to fall out. Since that time Michigan has been in decline, with the pace of decline fluctuating between slow and very fast.

If this were just a UAW problem, then we should not see the entire U.S. manufacturing base collapse as it is doing. Globalization and excessive consumption of imported goods have put us at a disadvantage.

However, the second part I bolded is something I could not agree more with. Blaming the current government in Michigan, California or even in DC for the current problems we're facing is ludicrous. These are inherited problems, many of which have their roots as far back as the Reagan administration, if not even further. We should feel sorry for the brave souls who choose to get into politics today, not berate them for things they didn't cause.


As far as the ticket tax, I'm in favor of it. Attending an event is a luxury that many people can't afford, particularly now. You don't want to pay the tax? Then don't go to the game / concert / whatever. I am doubtful that it will actually become law, but it wouldn't bother me at all if it does. I've got way bigger things to worry about that some possible tax that would cost me less than $50 a year.

-edit
Just to clarify, the proposal is a 6% tax on tickets, essentially matching the sales tax rate. So unless you spend a considerable sum of money on various tickets throughout the year (in which case you have considerable disposable income) then this is much ado about next to nothing. In order for this to cost you $50 you have to spend over $833 on tickets in a year.

So that "family of four" example in the Red Wings email are already spending $9,950 dollars on season tickets. Really, the family can afford to drop 10k on season tickets, but an extra $600 is a deal breaker?

It's a luxury tax, plain and simple. I'm all in favor of it, but there are probably too many detractors for it to actually become law.
Well, while I'm not opposed to unions, the UAW drove costs up essentially with their demands for excessive benefits and pensions. This was fine in the 70s, when someone living into their 90s was an aberration, but now, its quite common. My father has been a cardiologist for over 35 years, and he frequently comments on how many former autoworkers he has coming into his office in their late 80s and 90s, with their families demanding they do everything possible to keep said person alive, so said family can leech off of lucrative pensions (lucrative in relation to the retiree). And this is not something that was the case 15 years ago, or more.

That said, I will forever disagree with the sentiment that people should be "blamed" for who they elect. It is not in the nature for smart, empathetic people to want to be politicians. It is in the nature of those who seek politic office (see: power) to overlook much of what benefits most in favor of pork-barreling or similar. The biggest problem is a dearth of strong candidates who are willing to seek an office that is marred in overwhelming ultimatums.

[/rant]

As far as the tax, I don't mind too much, as the tax is a small fee to the consumer per capita, but should pay strong dividends to the country; However, I still maintain that the best action for any state, or the country as a whole, would be for the government to get their sticky, regulating fingers in the marijuana economy, so they can rightfully tax a drug widely used by all classes.

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Old
10-02-2009, 03:04 PM
  #12
detredWINgs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
Sadly, that is true.



I would like to take a moment to introduce you to the idea that the UAW is also a political entity, and has been for the better part of, what... 50 years?





Speaking of shortsighted...
I'm not arguing with any of those comments. Only that people aren't "dodos" for electing the only experienced politicians in their midst.

I would wholly agree that the UAW is a political entity - theres no debating that; its just not a popularly mass-elected group, despite the fact that its actions have had decade-long impliciations for ALL Michigan residents.

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