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espn's hockey analysts on re-alignment...

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Old
10-02-2009, 09:26 AM
  #51
Panopticon
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Originally Posted by Ruddy View Post
wouldn't it make more sense to put the second one in Minneapolis and establish a rivalry between the Twin Cities?
That's an interesting idea actually. Don't know if it would work or not, but it's interesting.

EDIT: I'm almost ashamed to admit this, but I like Buccigross' plan. It's perhaps a bit too optimistic or even utopistic, but I like it. Although I'd still keep divisions in the confrences too. 40 teams, 2 confrences, 4 or 8 divisions. But most of those new teams sound kind of exciting, in a daydream kind of way

It could create some interesting new rivalries, like Houston-Dallas, St. Paul-Minneapolis and Portland-Seattle(-Vancouver?). I also like the idea of a team in Milwaukee. They have a pretty good arena, I was there last year to watch the Admirals play and they have the basis for a fan base there already, with some of the Ads fans even sounding a bit hardcore...

Two new teams in Canada would probably keep the Canadian fans from whining for a year or two as well. They should also let Balsillie own one of those, so he could stop trying to rob the new southern fan bases of their teams. Struggling though they may be...

EDIT2: I'd rather have a team in KC than Las Vegas, though. Although I could be easily persuaded otherwise.


Last edited by Panopticon: 10-02-2009 at 09:45 AM.
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Old
10-02-2009, 10:53 AM
  #52
estevao
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Ugh.

All of these ideas are so unoriginal.

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Old
10-02-2009, 11:18 AM
  #53
Buddy The Elf
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Originally Posted by devsfan87 View Post
There are too many teams in the NHL now. Expansion should not be an option.
COntraction is the way to go.
Florida, LA Kings and Phoenix should be chopped immediately. These teams are in poor markets, have fans that show up disguised as empty seats and get dismal tv ratings.
LA Kings? Spare me your ignorance. Would you like to explain to the class how the Kings are in any worse of a position than the Devils? Let me direct you to the attendance statistics from the past season where the Kings finished 26th overall:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attend..._pct&year=2009

The Kings averaged 700 fans more a game and .5% less capacity over the course of the season compared to your beloved Devils.

Don't bother searching past seasons because it only gets worse for your argument as 2008 when the Kings finished a dismal 29th in the standings, they averaged 92% capacity and 16,606 fans a game compared to your beloved Devils who averaged 15,564 and 81.7% capacity. In 2007 when the Kings finished 25th (I think), again, the Kings averaged over 2000 more fans a night than your beloved Devils.

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Originally Posted by devsfan87 View Post
I wouldn't say the Devils get por atendance. They avg about 80% capacity.
That's disappointing. One must remember that every Devils game is on tv locally.
The organization is running more tix specials to boost attendance.
In any event, the franchise has always had a difficult time selling out games.
If the Devils don't have poor attendance, neither do the Kings. Just wait, if the Kings ever pull themselves out of the rut they've been in for the past 7 seasons, the building will be full regularly. If the team can sell out games and beat the Devils in attendance while finishing 29th and 25th in consecutive seasons, just imagine what a winning season will do.

Take your glorious hockey markets and shove it up your ass! I'm so sick of idiots on the east coast and Canada that want to lump LA in with the sun belt and futility. The team has been here since 1967 and there is a very diehard fan base. Unfortunately, there hasn't been a lot to cheer about lately (or ever for that matter). The fan base isn't huge given the population of the area but if you are looking at contracting teams, you might want to look 30 miles south where the owner of the team is on the brink of federal pound me in the ass prison.

But lets not let the facts get in the way of a good story.

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Old
10-02-2009, 11:44 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by drivelikejoewho View Post

But lets not let the facts get in the way of a good story.
This.

The Kings have drawn more fans than the Devils every year over the last 10 seasons, even though New Jerseys arena had a higher capacity for most of those seasons.

If the Kings are a candidate for being chopped, NJ would be a no-brainer. LA didn't even make the playoffs in 2003 and drew over 2,500 fans more per game than the Devils did, and they won the cup.

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10-02-2009, 11:54 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by drivelikejoewho View Post
Take your glorious hockey markets and shove it up your ass! I'm so sick of idiots on the east coast and Canada that want to lump LA in with the sun belt and futility. The team has been here since 1967 and there is a very diehard fan base.
Not to take away anything from your argument, because it's absurd to want to relocate a successful team, but L.A. is absolutely in the "Sun Belt." For that matter, so is San Jose - if snow doesn't regularly touch the top of the arena, you're a Sun Belt market.

Los Angeles also happens to be the largest U.S. market and doesn't have one NFL team when it should have two.

Phoenix...not so much.

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10-02-2009, 11:57 AM
  #56
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I support any and all ideas that get the Minnesota Wild the heck out of the North West Division. Not sure if anyone around the NHL has ever glanced at a map, but I'm not quite sure how Minnesota is related to "North West" other than a now defunct airlines company.

In general, the travel schedule for this division is just brutal and why they don't draw all that many top flight free agents. Especially when these guys can look to the Eastern Conference where some of these teams could literally travel by bus.

The two Minnesota teams is an interesting take. However, if you're really going to put two teams in Minnesota, a better location would probably be the East Grand Forks or Duluth region. Either of these areas could draw on the Iron Range contingent of fans, as well as possibly taking on some fans in the area between the Winnipeg and Thunder Bay regions of Canada. East Grand Forks would likely spread more westward into the Dakotas and Montana, while Duluth would go into Wisconsin.

I think the better idea would be just giving Wisconsin a team, though. There's already an enormous rivalry between Minnesota-Wisconsin fans for really anything worth arguing over. So this would be a logical fit.

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10-02-2009, 12:12 PM
  #57
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I support any and all ideas that get the Minnesota Wild the heck out of the North West Division. Not sure if anyone around the NHL has ever glanced at a map, but I'm not quite sure how Minnesota is related to "North West" other than a now defunct airlines company.
Seconded, with Dallas added as a mutual "get the hell out of the West" partner.

Basically, for the vast majority of hockey fans, your horrible Eastern-centric alignment really screws over the rest of us. You might not be playing your closest rivals in your division, but you're not crossing two time zones to do it.

Quote:
In general, the travel schedule for this division is just brutal and why they don't draw all that many top flight free agents. Especially when these guys can look to the Eastern Conference where some of these teams could literally travel by bus.

The two Minnesota teams is an interesting take. However, if you're really going to put two teams in Minnesota, a better location would probably be the East Grand Forks or Duluth region. Either of these areas could draw on the Iron Range contingent of fans, as well as possibly taking on some fans in the area between the Winnipeg and Thunder Bay regions of Canada. East Grand Forks would likely spread more westward into the Dakotas and Montana, while Duluth would go into Wisconsin.

I think the better idea would be just giving Wisconsin a team, though. There's already an enormous rivalry between Minnesota-Wisconsin fans for really anything worth arguing over. So this would be a logical fit.
Milwaukee, IMO, is overlooked as a potential market due to it's proximity to Chicago...but there are two teams in SoCal, and three around Manhattan. There should be no reason why Wisconsin doesn't have a NHL-level pro team.

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10-02-2009, 12:17 PM
  #58
Buddy The Elf
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Originally Posted by estevao View Post
Not to take away anything from your argument, because it's absurd to want to relocate a successful team, but L.A. is absolutely in the "Sun Belt." For that matter, so is San Jose - if snow doesn't regularly touch the top of the arena, you're a Sun Belt market.

Los Angeles also happens to be the largest U.S. market and doesn't have one NFL team when it should have two.

Phoenix...not so much.
I'm very much aware LA is in the Sun Belt. It is a brisk 80 degrees right now. My contention is we aren't one of the insolvent teams in the Sun Belt. The Kings have existed longer than all of them and for the most part been a viable franchise since Gretzky came to the team. Colorado and Atlanta have both had a team come and go since the Kings have been around.

Combine that with the fact that New Jersey is in a place where it snows, they win Stanley Cups and they still can't outdraw the Kings. What do they say about people in glass houses? That is my only point.

As far as LA and the NFL go, well that probably would've happened by now if they didn't insist on taxpayers subsidizing a new stadium. If I'm not mistaken, that is a big reason why the Raiders and Rams left in the first place. But they have approved building a new stadium in the burbs here so the NFL may return soon...

http://www.dailybulletin.com/ci_1345...e=most_emailed

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local...-61511257.html


Last edited by Buddy The Elf: 10-02-2009 at 12:23 PM.
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Old
10-02-2009, 12:22 PM
  #59
Julius Caesar Milan
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Originally Posted by estevao View Post
Los Angeles also happens to be the largest U.S. market and doesn't have one NFL team when it should have two.
And that is exclusively because of politics and because the owner of one team is crazy and the other was a paying mantis/black widow who was mad that her childhood hometown lost their NFL team.

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10-02-2009, 01:11 PM
  #60
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And that is exclusively because of politics and because the owner of one team is crazy and the other was a paying mantis/black widow who was mad that her childhood hometown lost their NFL team.
I actually made the NFL comment to show how there's even more of a reason to laugh and point at anyone wishing to kick the Kings out of the NHL.

SoCal is over twice as big as NorCal, in population. The Bay and LA areas each have 6 big-league pro teams (add in Sac and SD and it's only slightly different), so it's just absurd to want to remove teams from LA.

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10-02-2009, 01:22 PM
  #61
Julius Caesar Milan
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Originally Posted by estevao View Post
I actually made the NFL comment to show how there's even more of a reason to laugh and point at anyone wishing to kick the Kings out of the NHL.

SoCal is over twice as big as NorCal, in population. The Bay and LA areas each have 6 big-league pro teams (add in Sac and SD and it's only slightly different), so it's just absurd to want to remove teams from LA.
Understood. I misunderstood what you were saying there. My bad

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Old
10-02-2009, 03:52 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by devsfan87 View Post
How so?
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Originally Posted by yooper wings fan View Post
Using NJD for example. Under the current alignment Buffalo is the longest trip in conference for the Devils at 386 miles.

Now the DRW have in the division alone 2 teams that are Nashville 534 miles and St. Louis 527 miles both of which are much longer trips. And 3 out of four teams in their division are a longer trip then going to Toronto 232 miles.
I think that you might have part of the idea, yooper wings fan, but specifically the idea is that for the Western Conference to have at least one geographically compact Division it would reduce over all travel for the otherwise geographically expansive Western Conference. And for the Eastern Conference to have a few teams from the Central Time Zone wouldn't really mean a great increase in travel cost. And by having a complete Division of Eastern Time Zone teams in the West, it would make it easier for those few ETZ teams that currently have to be in the West regardless.

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10-02-2009, 04:14 PM
  #63
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I support any and all ideas that get the Minnesota Wild the heck out of the North West Division. Not sure if anyone around the NHL has ever glanced at a map, but I'm not quite sure how Minnesota is related to "North West" other than a now defunct airlines company.

In general, the travel schedule for this division is just brutal and why they don't draw all that many top flight free agents. Especially when these guys can look to the Eastern Conference where some of these teams could literally travel by bus.

The two Minnesota teams is an interesting take. However, if you're really going to put two teams in Minnesota, a better location would probably be the East Grand Forks or Duluth region. Either of these areas could draw on the Iron Range contingent of fans, as well as possibly taking on some fans in the area between the Winnipeg and Thunder Bay regions of Canada. East Grand Forks would likely spread more westward into the Dakotas and Montana, while Duluth would go into Wisconsin.

I think the better idea would be just giving Wisconsin a team, though.
There's already an enormous rivalry between Minnesota-Wisconsin fans for really anything worth arguing over. So this would be a logical fit.
OR, at least make the Northwest a more Minnesota appropriate Division by having a couple other teams in the Division which could have some connection to Minnesota. Minnesota should be in a Division with Chicago, that's for sure. And if there were a Wisconsin team, or a team in Winnipeg, or in Omaha, that would be great. But with the teams that currently exist, having Chicago and perhaps St. Louis in the Division with Minnesota would then make being in the same Division with the Alberta teams more palatable.

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