HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Notices

Toskala vs The Monster

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-04-2009, 08:02 PM
  #1
LastCupUpNorth
Registered User
 
LastCupUpNorth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Kitchener
Country: Canada
Posts: 463
vCash: 500
Toskala vs The Monster

Now, I've seen the two of them play... and the flurry of excuses of why Toskala shouldn't be considered for the zamboni driver position... but I'd like to point out of the two very similar situations, the HUGE differences and why Monster clearly should be the #1 goaltender...


#1: Defensive breakdowns

Toskala: Handles them by dropping to the butterfly and scrambling around the crease like some kind of fish out of water. Always plays the player and rarely follows the puck.

Monster: Handles them relatively how it's expected by an NHL caliber goalie. Makes himself big in net and does his best to follow the puck with some solid positioning.


#2: Positioning

Toskala: Plays bigger than he is. He needs to play the angles, because he's not a very large goaltender... but he plays back and gets caught deep in his crease. Gets lucky on some shots and scrambles, but generally always caught out of position.

Monster: Has some very sound positioning. Plays like a big goalie and can cover most of the net. For someone who's adjusting to NHL ice, he looks very good against even the top flight NHL talent


#3: Poise

Toskala: Has good games, has great games and has amazingly horrible games. It seems once the team has beaten him once, he falls apart. Doesn't have the strong focus to be a sustainable #1 goaltender

Monster: Calm and cool, he shows frustration but is showing that he has the constitution to shut down even after being beaten. He's no stranger to pressure, being in a very competitive league, so he has the maturity of experience in the professional level.


Bottom line, Toskala is a career #2. Gustavsson is built to be a top NHL Goalie, we're getting flashes of it now. It will take some time to get there, but he'll live up to his name

LastCupUpNorth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-04-2009, 08:11 PM
  #2
Christ
Registered User
 
Christ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,728
vCash: 500
How does a Monster stop a charging Ryno?
...
...
With a spectacular kick save of course.


The number 1 reason why the Monster should be our starter? He has a nicer mask

Christ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-04-2009, 08:18 PM
  #3
JL4L
Registered User
 
JL4L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 764
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to JL4L
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christ View Post
How does a Monster stop a charging Ryno?
...
...
With a spectacular kick save of course.


The number 1 reason why the Monster should be our starter? He has a nicer mask
Very nicely done.

JL4L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-04-2009, 08:21 PM
  #4
Suntouchable13
Registered User
 
Suntouchable13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Thornhill, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,579
vCash: 500
I noticed, maybe someone else noticed too, that he (Jonas) doesn't always drop down into the butterfly position. He makes some saves standing up. I don't know, I'd give him a start on Tuesday night vs. Alfie and the Sens. Can't do much worse than Vesa. If he plays great, well then maybe we got us our new #1. And if not, well go back to Vesa. He surely is better than a .625 save % goalie.

Suntouchable13 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-04-2009, 08:24 PM
  #5
LastCupUpNorth
Registered User
 
LastCupUpNorth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Kitchener
Country: Canada
Posts: 463
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suntouchable13 View Post
I noticed, maybe someone else noticed too, that he (Jonas) doesn't always drop down into the butterfly position. He makes some saves standing up. I don't know, I'd give him a start on Tuesday night vs. Alfie and the Sens. Can't do much worse than Vesa. If he plays great, well then maybe we got us our new #1. And if not, well go back to Vesa. He surely is better than a .625 save % goalie.
Toskala NEEDS to stand up to make some saves... he simply can't stop the high shot. Everybody knows it.

I've been very impressed with Gus.

LastCupUpNorth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-04-2009, 08:31 PM
  #6
Suntouchable13
Registered User
 
Suntouchable13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Thornhill, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,579
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastCupUpNorth View Post
Toskala NEEDS to stand up to make some saves... he simply can't stop the high shot. Everybody knows it.

I've been very impressed with Gus.
Hopefully Toskala will be putting in some extra work with Allaire the next couple of days. If he continues to play like this, this very well might be his last season in the NHL so his career is on the line here.

Suntouchable13 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-04-2009, 08:39 PM
  #7
HariKari
Registered User
 
HariKari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 842
vCash: 500
if Raycroft can find a team (at league minimum), I'm sure Toskala will end up somewhere.

HariKari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-04-2009, 08:53 PM
  #8
stoney
Registered User
 
stoney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Mississauga
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,554
vCash: 500
When presenting "facts" you should probably try and be a little less biased.

Gustavsson has proven nothing in the NHL.

Toskala has played some good games, and has a record over .500 with the Leafs, even last year.

I hope Gustavsson is amazing, but I haven't seen Toskala lose a game for us yet, the D did that.

stoney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-04-2009, 08:54 PM
  #9
EazyB97
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 27,861
vCash: 500
Ugh. Sometimes I am amazed at the threads that come up. I prefer Gustavsson to start, but there's a few misconceptions in the thread.

1. Toskala doesn't use the butterfly that much, he's a hybrid goalie. So saying he's always in the butterfly is incorrect.

2. He does get into trouble when he is deep in his crease, but he is usually out high to cut down the angle (since coming to TO, it's improved). This usually puts him in good position for the first shot, but not rebounds. That's where the scrambling comes into play, because he has further to go to cover rebounds.

3. Gustavsson's positioning isn't great. He's a reflex goalie. For a goalie his size, he doesn't look that big in net. Good positional goalies, like Price and Giguere, look big in net (and not just because of their equipment). Gusto doesn't look this big and it's because he tends to flop.

4. Poise - I don't really agree with anything said here. It's VERY early to claim Gustavsson is calm and cool in net. He looked very jumpy last game overplaying Semin's second goal and falling for a move Morrison never made. Toskala has had good and bad games, but he always looks relaxed in net.

That said, I like what I've seen from Gustavsson. His reflexes are strong, but his mechanics have a long way to go. He may never get them down and in that case, he'll just rely on his skills. Some goalies flop like that (Pogge) others thrive (Cujo, Brodeur). At this point, I would prefer to see Gustavsson get a legit chance to start, but not all of the OP's claims are correct in my eyes.

EazyB97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-04-2009, 09:04 PM
  #10
mapes
Registered User
 
mapes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Halifax
Posts: 21,494
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by stoneymcstone View Post
When presenting "facts" you should probably try and be a little less biased.

Gustavsson has proven nothing in the NHL.

Toskala has played some good games, and has a record over .500 with the Leafs, even last year.

I hope Gustavsson is amazing, but I haven't seen Toskala lose a game for us yet, the D did that.
Over 500 in the NHL is a joke. If you are 500 in the season, you have 82 points. That will get you close to a lottery team.

mapes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-04-2009, 09:13 PM
  #11
LastCupUpNorth
Registered User
 
LastCupUpNorth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Kitchener
Country: Canada
Posts: 463
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EazyB97 View Post
Ugh. Sometimes I am amazed at the threads that come up. I prefer Gustavsson to start, but there's a few misconceptions in the thread.

1. Toskala doesn't use the butterfly that much, he's a hybrid goalie. So saying he's always in the butterfly is incorrect.

2. He does get into trouble when he is deep in his crease, but he is usually out high to cut down the angle (since coming to TO, it's improved). This usually puts him in good position for the first shot, but not rebounds. That's where the scrambling comes into play, because he has further to go to cover rebounds.

3. Gustavsson's positioning isn't great. He's a reflex goalie. For a goalie his size, he doesn't look that big in net. Good positional goalies, like Price and Giguere, look big in net (and not just because of their equipment). Gusto doesn't look this big and it's because he tends to flop.

4. Poise - I don't really agree with anything said here. It's VERY early to claim Gustavsson is calm and cool in net. He looked very jumpy last game overplaying Semin's second goal and falling for a move Morrison never made. Toskala has had good and bad games, but he always looks relaxed in net.

That said, I like what I've seen from Gustavsson. His reflexes are strong, but his mechanics have a long way to go. He may never get them down and in that case, he'll just rely on his skills. Some goalies flop like that (Pogge) others thrive (Cujo, Brodeur). At this point, I would prefer to see Gustavsson get a legit chance to start, but not all of the OP's claims are correct in my eyes.

I'm limiting my opinions to the two games that have come under fire, and isolating the facts to the similar situations Gusto and Toskala have faced...

Bottom line is that Toskala knows what he has to work on and he's been around (the NHL) a lot longer than Monster, and bottom line... Monster is showing Vesa how to do it.

LastCupUpNorth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-04-2009, 09:40 PM
  #12
Ratboy
The Samsquanch!
 
Ratboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,740
vCash: 500
I agree. I think Gus has all the tools to be a big performer. I really want to see how he handles a full game, even one at home ice against the hated sens.

I have a feeling hes got it between the ears, something I wish Vesa had more of. I remember another 23 or 24 year old rookie who took over, his name was, FELIX THE CAT.

I'm not saying Gus will be the next equivalent to Potvin (who was really good with us for a few years there), but it would be nice.

I really think as long as he can maintain his composure he will be fine. I haven't had enough time to truly analyze his game yet though, I am wanting to see more as I'm sure the rest of you are.

I remember one very impressive save last night though. The puck bounced off the boards behind the net and it came right out front, some Capital shot it up high and Gus quickly snared it. It was impressive because of the reaction time he displayed. Quick bounces off the boards can usually throw a goalie off, but he looked fine on it.

Ratboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-04-2009, 09:40 PM
  #13
Suntouchable13
Registered User
 
Suntouchable13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Thornhill, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,579
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTIR View Post
if Raycroft can find a team (at league minimum), I'm sure Toskala will end up somewhere.
The question is does he want to just sit on the bench and backup someone like Luongo? Or would he rather go back home and actually play?

Suntouchable13 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-04-2009, 09:48 PM
  #14
HariKari
Registered User
 
HariKari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 842
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suntouchable13 View Post
The question is does he want to just sit on the bench and backup someone like Luongo? Or would he rather go back home and actually play?
good point. Toskala's a fighter, I can't see him signing a contract to take naps on a bench.

HariKari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-04-2009, 09:55 PM
  #15
Ratboy
The Samsquanch!
 
Ratboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,740
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mapes View Post
Over 500 in the NHL is a joke. If you are 500 in the season, you have 82 points. That will get you close to a lottery team.
It used to be ok until those damn 3 point games came into play! i dont even know if that made sense, i should go to bed.

Ratboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-05-2009, 12:26 AM
  #16
PTmbp13
Registered User
 
PTmbp13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Country: Australia
Posts: 1,431
vCash: 500
Good written post.
Monater lloks good. A new league & icesurface a new counrty a completley new and different part f the world. When he is comfortable in less than a year ith ink ( i his case) he will rule the crease. World´s coolest monster.

Looking frwd to watch more.

PTmbp13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-05-2009, 01:47 AM
  #17
Sad Panda
Registered User
 
Sad Panda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,487
vCash: 500
It's way too early for me to judge Gustavsson. He's only played two periods of regular season NHL hockey. I liked what I saw, even if the game was a blowout. How he handles the workload of an NHL number one job and the pressure of Toronto is another thing. We'll have to see. If our defense keeps playing this way it won't make a difference who's in net.

Toskala. We'll I think he can be decent backup in this league. Just not in Toronto with all the pressure. I think he'll be just fine as a backup somewhere else. He plays too small and pucks always seem to go through him.

Sad Panda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-05-2009, 02:28 AM
  #18
LannysStach
Thou shall
 
LannysStach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NYC & Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,476
vCash: 500
the Monster drops like a rock

I was out of country for the exhib. -- come back, hear all the raves about "The Monster" -- I'm optimistic and in eager anticipation.
He comes out for 2nd period -- first shot -- he's dropped to his knees before it's taken. "Wait a minute ..."
Then it happens again. And again. And again.

And if I notice it, every NHL coach & scouting staff has noticed it.
Then I realize -- every shot Wash took on him was to the top of the net -- where two of their 3 goals went in, the other being a fluke off a skate.
in short -- I hate to break it to you, but this guy's gonna be letting in a helluva lot of goals in the top half of the net.

If the Caps already knew to be capitalizing on it in his first period in the NHL, how many scouts and coaches do you think don't already know it?

so much for the Swedish Savior.

LannysStach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-05-2009, 03:03 AM
  #19
HellasLEAF
Komarov has cometh..
 
HellasLEAF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Country: Greece
Posts: 11,037
vCash: 500
ha, how do you figure out a goalie in 2 periods.

ps, every butterfly goalie goes to his knees but thanks for breaking it down for us. now you want an easy goalie to beat? Kiprosoft. talk about overrated.

HellasLEAF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-05-2009, 03:45 AM
  #20
PTmbp13
Registered User
 
PTmbp13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Country: Australia
Posts: 1,431
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LannysStach View Post
I was out of country for the exhib. -- come back, hear all the raves about "The Monster" -- I'm optimistic and in eager anticipation.
He comes out for 2nd period -- first shot -- he's dropped to his knees before it's taken. "Wait a minute ..."
Then it happens again. And again. And again.

And if I notice it, every NHL coach & scouting staff has noticed it.
Then I realize -- every shot Wash took on him was to the top of the net -- where two of their 3 goals went in, the other being a fluke off a skate.
in short -- I hate to break it to you, but this guy's gonna be letting in a helluva lot of goals in the top half of the net.

If the Caps already knew to be capitalizing on it in his first period in the NHL, how many scouts and coaches do you think don't already know it?

so much for the Swedish Savior.
Sounds like Broduer

PTmbp13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-05-2009, 04:01 AM
  #21
Snauen*
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Country: Ras al-Khaimah
Posts: 395
vCash: 500
'Toskala vs the Monster' or Jaws III, wich is the worst horror film?

Snauen* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-05-2009, 04:30 AM
  #22
Mogwai
Registered User
 
Mogwai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Etobicoke, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,989
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeMan View Post
Sounds like Broduer
This ^.

I love how some people are the authority on goaltending. The Monster is a big man. He drops to his knees because he is a butterfly goalie and that is the way Allaire wants him to play. He plays EXACTLY like Giggy does. Like, the movements he does across the crease are as compact as he can manage right now (I hate to steal Weekes' word already, but its what my goalie coach used too) and he uses his big upper body to cut down most of the view of the rest of the net.

To say 2 of the 3 goals went in top shelf and the other was a fluke is from someone who doesn't want to see what actually happened. Semin's goal had Gustavsson out of position. It was shelfed because he was diving. He was out of position because he was trying too hard, and I know what people will say, "You just said he plays like giggy and hes effecient etc" and he is, but he made a mistake on that goal. He is still adjusting.

I could've stopped Ovechkin's opening shot. Honestly. I just would've stood there with my legs closed and my stick on the ice. VeTo has a lot of foibles as a goaltender, and that had as much to do with concentration as it did with not positioning his stick properly in the butterfly.

Mogwai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-05-2009, 04:35 AM
  #23
LastCupUpNorth
Registered User
 
LastCupUpNorth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Kitchener
Country: Canada
Posts: 463
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mogwai View Post
This ^.

I love how some people are the authority on goaltending. The Monster is a big man. He drops to his knees because he is a butterfly goalie and that is the way Allaire wants him to play. He plays EXACTLY like Giggy does. Like, the movements he does across the crease are as compact as he can manage right now (I hate to steal Weekes' word already, but its what my goalie coach used too) and he uses his big upper body to cut down most of the view of the rest of the net.

To say 2 of the 3 goals went in top shelf and the other was a fluke is from someone who doesn't want to see what actually happened. Semin's goal had Gustavsson out of position. It was shelfed because he was diving. He was out of position because he was trying too hard, and I know what people will say, "You just said he plays like giggy and hes effecient etc" and he is, but he made a mistake on that goal. He is still adjusting.

I could've stopped Ovechkin's opening shot. Honestly. I just would've stood there with my legs closed and my stick on the ice. VeTo has a lot of foibles as a goaltender, and that had as much to do with concentration as it did with not positioning his stick properly in the butterfly.
I'm still not convinced Vesa knows how big he is yet...

LastCupUpNorth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-05-2009, 04:35 AM
  #24
mach777
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 563
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sad Panda View Post
It's way too early for me to judge Gustavsson. He's only played two periods of regular season NHL hockey.
I agree. Way too early to judge.

mach777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-05-2009, 06:52 AM
  #25
Ratboy
The Samsquanch!
 
Ratboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,740
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mogwai View Post
This ^.

I love how some people are the authority on goaltending. The Monster is a big man. He drops to his knees because he is a butterfly goalie and that is the way Allaire wants him to play. He plays EXACTLY like Giggy does. Like, the movements he does across the crease are as compact as he can manage right now (I hate to steal Weekes' word already, but its what my goalie coach used too) and he uses his big upper body to cut down most of the view of the rest of the net.

To say 2 of the 3 goals went in top shelf and the other was a fluke is from someone who doesn't want to see what actually happened. Semin's goal had Gustavsson out of position. It was shelfed because he was diving. He was out of position because he was trying too hard, and I know what people will say, "You just said he plays like giggy and hes effecient etc" and he is, but he made a mistake on that goal. He is still adjusting.

I could've stopped Ovechkin's opening shot. Honestly. I just would've stood there with my legs closed and my stick on the ice. VeTo has a lot of foibles as a goaltender, and that had as much to do with concentration as it did with not positioning his stick properly in the butterfly.
Wait a sec, you're saying that when you go down or butterfly you put the stick IN BETWEEN your legs?

Get out, that's just, technically sound. It's one big rip I had on Raycroft. I don't understand why so many NHL goalies appear to forget this little thing so often. It's the easiest way to basically render the 5 hole inaccessible during the butterfly.

I agree with you. The Monster goes down often, because he can. How many times was he beaten in the butterfly, if it all on Saturday night? He's so big it's nearly impossible to get a shot over him, unless you get him out of position. But it's the same for every goalie with the size to be able to play that style.


Last edited by Ratboy: 10-05-2009 at 07:04 AM.
Ratboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:50 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.