Pyolara was a solid defensive / effort player before he showed some skill. His two-way play is why he's getting a look and made Philly's roster. This is also a classic case of a late bloomer, which Ryno doesn't fit.
How can you say whether Ryno is a late bloomer or not? It's not late yet. Just because Hakan Andersson saw potential in him doesn't mean he can't be a late bloomer. A high draft pick can be a late bloomer. Dan Cleary, for instance. Or Markus Naslund. Both were first rounders.
As I said, given who he is, what he is, the decisions he has made, his intensity, his work ethic, his decision-making.... the whole bag.... it absolutely matters, imo, where he plays. I don't see how you can make the argument that it's a wash, whether he plays in the AHL or the SEL, in terms of his NHL future. It most definitely matters.
Come on.
So if Johan Ryno decides to be in the AHL, and he sucks, he's a better NHL prospect than if he is in Sweden and he sucks?
Or, if Ryno decides to go play in the AHL and scores 30 goals, he's a better NHL prospect than if he blooms in Sweden?
I am not making the argument that the AHL and SEL are a wash. I am saying that it's ridiculous to day he'll never be an NHLer based simply on this decision.
that's why 12 players on his team are older than him and only 3 are more than 2 years younger?
you can complain about the allsvenskan and ryno all you want, but it doesn't help that you don't know what you are talking about.
the allsvenskan is a men's league and the level of player is higher than the ECHL i'd say. so it's not like he chose to play in juniors again.
yes, i think his NHL chances are next to none, mainly because he doesn't have the desire to play NHL. but no, he's not wasting his time in allsvenskan and it's a good league to play and learn. his decision to play for AIK has to do with feeling good there. he doesn't get less money there than in elitserien. and he can play for a team that wants to play elitserien next season. AIK is not worse than some bottom SEL teams. i don't think sodertalje is any better. and there are 2-3 other allsvenskan teams who are on that level too.
And I think this is what I and others have been saying less succinctly. This decision is really just a capstone to his past actions and shows he's still just not big on playing over here. I do think there is a competitive difference between teh AHL and tier2, and I think he'd have been better off getting acclimated to playing on a smaller rink this year but, in the end, it's really a show case of attitude. In the past he has shown that he doesn't really care about playing over here and this is showing that it hasn't really changed. He just doesn't want it and that's okay.
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Originally Posted by zecke26
but somehow only a few want to discuss prospects who have a future and most want simply cry that someone leaves to europe. i mean, how many discussions did we have about ritola or emmerton lately? it's always about ryno. i wonder if this has to do with him being 6'5. it reminds me of old GMs who always draft players with size and not with skill. maybe the wings were too short the last years and too soft and that's why a lot wanted ryno to succeed. but hell, he's softer than hudler. size alone means nothing.
Honestly, yes. I'm not big on drafting guys to just crash and bang or drifting far from the Wings skilled game but the opportunity to have a skilled player who also happens to be a giant? Sign me up. It doesn't help that two of the past three playoff runs have seen us having to go through teams who were bigger and allowed to muck up the game. Having a few more guys with size to plough through it would make it a lot easier on our smaller wings.
It's also why I'm high on Kindl, Kolosov and Smith. Look at how Getzlaf just bullied through our smaller players in our own zone last season. Having guys who can simply match him physically would be a big help, imo.
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob
Come on.
So if Johan Ryno decides to be in the AHL, and he sucks, he's a better NHL prospect than if he is in Sweden and he sucks?
Or, if Ryno decides to go play in the AHL and scores 30 goals, he's a better NHL prospect than if he blooms in Sweden?
I am not making the argument that the AHL and SEL are a wash. I am saying that it's ridiculous to day he'll never be an NHLer based simply on this decision.
at the same time, part of looking at prospects is trying to see where they'll pan out. I don't think it's just the league he's playing in but the his past decisions on top of this that casts a ton of doubt on his basic desire to play in the NHL. And if a guy doesn't want it, it's not going to happen. I'm fine with guys maturing overseas if it looks like they are making progress but Ryno looks to have stagnated and doesn't appear to want to work out of it.
And I think this is what I and others have been saying less succinctly. This decision is really just a capstone to his past actions and shows he's still just not big on playing over here. I do think there is a competitive difference between teh AHL and tier2, and I think he'd have been better off getting acclimated to playing on a smaller rink this year but, in the end, it's really a show case of attitude. In the past he has shown that he doesn't really care about playing over here and this is showing that it hasn't really changed. He just doesn't want it and that's okay.
oh, i'm with you here. i really think his attitude towards the NHL is what will hold him back. he either doesn't understand that only a chosen few can make the jump right into the NHL (especially in detroit) or he's not to keen on climbing the ladder and is happy with were he is.
of course the AHL is more competitive and he could learn a lot there, mainly physical play, but it's not that the allsvenskan is a beer league. playing 1st line on a good team is not bad, especially not if they really succeed and might get promoted to elitserien. this would basically guarantee him a SEL spot next season.
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Honestly, yes. I'm not big on drafting guys to just crash and bang or drifting far from the Wings skilled game but the opportunity to have a skilled player who also happens to be a giant? Sign me up. It doesn't help that two of the past three playoff runs have seen us having to go through teams who were bigger and allowed to muck up the game. Having a few more guys with size to plough through it would make it a lot easier on our smaller wings.
size is definitely nice and it looks good to have ericsson on our team now, but size alone is not enough. size and skill is not enough either. you need to use that size. franzen for example is not exactly a banger either, but he learned to use it to protect himself and the puck. this helps him. but ryno, while being 6'5, plays like a 5'7 midget. and i really doubt you can ever teach him to play physical. you either like physical play or not. it's something you might teach to 15y olds, but a player who is already pro for a while won't change his style that much.
i liked the skillset of ryno and he looked good at times, he just never was any consistent and disappeared a lot. but his size is not worth much unfortunately.
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It's also why I'm high on Kindl, Kolosov and Smith. Look at how Getzlaf just bullied through our smaller players in our own zone last season. Having guys who can simply match him physically would be a big help, imo.
getzlaf is a monster, he's amazing. and if we could get size, skill and physical play out of players, i'd be more than happy, but those guys you mentioned aren't soft at least unlike ryno is.
that's why i'm high on axelsson. i think he can play similar to franzen, not a banger but a physical game nevertheless.
but ryno...oh well, i think he's a project that simply didn't work. remember johan berggren? he was a 6'4 4th rounder in 02. another project that didn't pan out.
Come on.
So if Johan Ryno decides to be in the AHL, and he sucks, he's a better NHL prospect than if he is in Sweden and he sucks?
Or, if Ryno decides to go play in the AHL and scores 30 goals, he's a better NHL prospect than if he blooms in Sweden?
I am not making the argument that the AHL and SEL are a wash. I am saying that it's ridiculous to day he'll never be an NHLer based simply on this decision.
It's not about how well he were to play here or in Sweden. The decision to go back says more about his commitment and what he's willing to do to make it. He's demonstrating that he's not willing to do what it takes. He's taken his chances of making it to the NHL from small to minuscule. And it's my opinion that he will not overcome those minuscule chances. I'm basically on the same page as most posters in this thread (sacastro, zecke, and winger98).
It's not about how well he were to play here or in Sweden. The decision to go back says more about his commitment and what he's willing to do to make it. He's demonstrating that he's not willing to do what it takes. He's taken his chances of making it to the NHL from small to minuscule. And it's my opinion that he will not overcome those minuscule chances. I'm basically on the same page as most posters in this thread (sacastro, zecke, and winger98).
We knew that before. We knew he wasn't doing what it takes in camp, in the prospect tourney, in exhibition games, in Sweden, last year.
I just don't see why anyone points to his refusal to go to Grand Rapids as the watershed mark.
If he's such a lazy oaf, then he'd have gone to Grand Rapids and played like a lazy oaf. By making that decision, you'd have given him a pass on his oafishness, and believed he was still a prospect?
We knew that before. We knew he wasn't doing what it takes in camp, in the prospect tourney, in exhibition games, in Sweden, last year.
I just don't see why anyone points to his refusal to go to Grand Rapids as the watershed mark.
If he's such a lazy oaf, then he'd have gone to Grand Rapids and played like a lazy oaf. By making that decision, you'd have given him a pass on his oafishness, and believed he was still a prospect?
Yep, if only for a short while. If he had decided to go to GR and then proceeded to play well, I'd have been impressed, given his history. I'd concede that he'd still have a possible future with the Wings. He'd possibly have had made a turn for the better. By deciding to go back to Sweden, he's continuing down his path of failure as a prospect. And I think the path just went past the breaking point. It's more a matter of this being the last straw than the watershed mark.
Hello, let me be the first to welcome you to the interwebs.
Yeah, I wasn't very clear in my first comment. This is a stupid strawman argument.
It's akin to me saying I've thrown away my chance at an NFL career because I elected not to try and find a training camp gig this past pre-season.
I am well past 30 and haven't played a competitive sport beyond pick up hockey or open gym basketball in 5 years (beyond refereeing high school games), and I've never played organized football. I have no shot in the world of landing a gig as an NFL player.
So, saying I've thrown away a chance to do something I never had a chance to do in the first place is, as I mentioned, stupid.
This applies exactly to Ryno. Oh sure, he's way better at hockey than I am at football, but neither one of us is anywhere close to good enough to be a pro at the highest level in our respective sports.
Yeah, I wasn't very clear in my first comment. This is a stupid strawman argument.
It's akin to me saying I've thrown away my chance at an NFL career because I elected not to try and find a training camp gig this past pre-season.
I am well past 30 and haven't played a competitive sport beyond pick up hockey or open gym basketball in 5 years (beyond refereeing high school games), and I've never played organized football. I have no shot in the world of landing a gig as an NFL player.
So, saying I've thrown away a chance to do something I never had a chance to do in the first place is, as I mentioned, stupid.
This applies exactly to Ryno. Oh sure, he's way better at hockey than I am at football, but neither one of us is anywhere close to good enough to be a pro at the highest level in our respective sports.
Talk about stupid arguments.
You're purposely avoiding the point.
Jaster argues that Ryno's decision ends his status as an NHL prospect, yet he readily admits that he'd still be viewed as a prospect if he went to Grand Rapids and played well.
Yet, if he goes to Sweden and plays well, Jaster says he's not an NHL prospect.
The argument I've made isn't whether or not he's a prospect. It's whether his decision to play in the NHL or in Sweden changes his upside.
I don't think Grand Rapids has an exclusive patent on the cure to Ryno's troubles.
Talk about stupid arguments.
You're purposely avoiding the point.
No, not really. The actual, real point is that if Ryno thought he was good enough to play in the NHL in a legitimate role, I suspect he'd serve a short stint in the AHL to do so.
I think, however, that based on his limited experience over here Ryno has pretty quickly (and accurately, IMO) come to the conclusion that even if he ever made it to the NHL, a far from a sure thing, he'd a) be in the AHL two or three years first and b) he'd be a depth grinder.
Again, it's not where Ryno is playing that is the core issue... it's why he has chosen to play there.
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I don't think Grand Rapids has an exclusive patent on the cure to Ryno's troubles.
A) I don't think that cure exists.
B) If it did, it's a lot closer to Grand Rapids than it is to a tier 2 team in Sweden.
That's illogical.
So he's still an NHL prospect if plays well in Grand Rapids.
But not if he plays well in Sweden?
That doesn't add up.
Sorry, but it does. His decisions on where he plays matter. Simple as that. Players who choose to stay in NA increase their chances of playing in the NHL. That is fact. And it's even more true with Ryno, given his commitment issues. You're viewpoint is pure fantasy.
Ryno's situation has been covered accurately and at length on this board, on other boards, in this thread, etc. The bottom line is, his decision on where he plays is not irrelevant. It matters, given all of the factors that surround Ryno. He may still have a chance, but it's so small, I'm comfortable in guessing that he never sees the NHL.
Sorry, but it does. His decisions on where he plays matter. Simple as that. Players who choose to stay in NA increase their chances of playing in the NHL. That is fact. And it's even more true with Ryno, given his commitment issues. You're viewpoint is pure fantasy.
Ryno's situation has been covered accurately and at length on this board, on other boards, in this thread, etc. The bottom line is, his decision on where he plays is not irrelevant. It matters, given all of the factors that surround Ryno. He may still have a chance, but it's so small, I'm comfortable in guessing that he never sees the NHL.
What is a fact is that you said if he played well in Grand Rapids, you'd consider him a prospect.
So it only stands to reason that if he played well in Sweden, you;d consider him a prospect.
And I agree, either way, he's not much of a hockey player.
A) I don't think that cure exists.
B) If it did, it's a lot closer to Grand Rapids than it is to a tier 2 team in Sweden.
Now, that's a strawman if ever there was one.
I don't think Ryno is a prospect.
It had everything to do with his play, and nothing to do with his decision to go back to Sweden.
He was getting aced in the tournament with 18 year olds.
His poor play showed him he wasn't good enough for North America. This notion that somehow things would have been different if he'd only chosen to stay is preposterous.
What is a fact is that you said if he played well in Grand Rapids, you'd consider him a prospect.
So it only stands to reason that if he played well in Sweden, you;d consider him a prospect.
And I agree, either way, he's not much of a hockey player.
Yeah, he's a prospect either way, by definition. But the idea that his chances of making it are the same is a logical fallacy. When it comes to a 23-year old prospect who supposedly wants to play in the NHL, one who has commitment issues and who has a history of poor decisions, there's a difference between playing in the AHL in a NA-style game on NA-sized ice and in the SEL's tier-2 league. Wings management wanted him to play in Grand Rapids for a reason.
This has been beaten to death. I retire from any further Ryno discussions After all, I've written him off.
After all, I've written him off.
