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Seeing that Milan Lucic just signed a 4M a year deal...

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Old
10-07-2009, 12:26 PM
  #26
eco's bones
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I might be in the minority here but between Lucic and Kessel I would choose Lucic and if the Bruins legitimately think he's the reincarnation of Cam Neely and that proves accurate he's the right guy to keep. Kessel might turn into that big time year after year goal scorer but as of now that is pretty much all he brings to a team--not arguing that that's not enough in itself but there's something soft about his game and again I'd take Lucic over him.

As for the Rangers and the cap--the best teams and up and coming teams are tying up more and more of their cap space in younger players--Pittsburgh, Washington, Chicago--the Rangers have a lot of good young players coming along and hopefully we get to the point where the summer means just one big UFA signing and that's about it. We need to get to the point where the only players we target are elite or legit 1st line or top 2 d types. With what we're building our system into I can see doing that from this summer on out.

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10-07-2009, 12:28 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
Generally a player will have 3 options in this situation.

1)Sign a fair contract with the club that both sides are agreeable to.
2)Sign an offersheet to which the club has a first right of refusal.
3)Demand a trade which the club has no obligation to honor.

In Staals case I think it will be the 2nd case. I dont think he has any loyalty to this club, particularly with his brothers on other teams, but I think the Rangers will match whatever he gets right away.
If by chance, Staal garners an offersheet for a 1st 2nd and 3rd do you match?

How about if its 2 1sts, a 2nd and a 3rd??

the first one may take some thinking by Rangers brass depending whats available in the system and on the market.

the second is a no brainer. Staal is a great young dman. But thats something that will put the organization years ahead of what staal could ever do.

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10-07-2009, 12:38 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Gabborik View Post
If by chance, Staal garners an offersheet for a 1st 2nd and 3rd do you match?

How about if its 2 1sts, a 2nd and a 3rd??

the first one may take some thinking by Rangers brass depending whats available in the system and on the market.

the second is a no brainer. Staal is a great young dman. But thats something that will put the organization years ahead of what staal could ever do.
I would match both. I'm sorry but the probability of any of those players reachign what Staal already is are very very low imho. Staal is a #1 defenseman at the age of what...22? That is so ridiculously rare.

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10-07-2009, 12:55 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
I would match both. I'm sorry but the probability of any of those players reachign what Staal already is are very very low imho. Staal is a #1 defenseman at the age of what...22? That is so ridiculously rare.
Agreed. And that is why on January 1 you need to start working to lock him up to a reasonable, fair extension. Unlike Dubinsky, I feel that Staal IS vulnerable to an offer-sheet and if you want a reasonable deal, you need to work it out prior to him hitting RFA status.

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10-07-2009, 01:09 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabborik View Post
If by chance, Staal garners an offersheet for a 1st 2nd and 3rd do you match?

How about if its 2 1sts, a 2nd and a 3rd??

the first one may take some thinking by Rangers brass depending whats available in the system and on the market.

the second is a no brainer. Staal is a great young dman. But thats something that will put the organization years ahead of what staal could ever do.
Match both in a heartbeat.

What Staal has already proven that he CAN do, will always be more valuable than having a an opportunity to select a player that has proven nothing and most likely will be 2-3 years away from a shot at proving their own worth.

Why do you think that most teams have retained the player in those situations where an offer-sheet has been extended with Penner being the lone exception that comes to mind.

Now, these represent situations where various degrees of compensation was conming back, but the first three were in the 4 or 5 first rounder catagory.

Sakic got matched.
Fedorov got matched.
Vanek got matched.
Backes got matched
Bernier got matched
Kesler got matched

Now, there are always exceptions to every rule, but exceptions are for those generational talents such as the Crosby's and the Ovechkin's and the Malkin's of the world.

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10-07-2009, 02:33 PM
  #31
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Good idea let Kessel walk to sign Lucic for 4 mil haha

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10-07-2009, 03:01 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Unless Staal adds (significantly) more offense to his game, Im not worried about him attempting to break the bank in the least.
Exactly. He doesn't have a leg to stand on. Those 3.5-4 million defensemen are 30-40+ point Dmen. Staal doesn't offer squat on the offensive end other than potential. He isn't especially physical yet. Certainly not up to his potential in that area yet. And he is far from what you would call a shut down defender. Basically he's just a solid defender who has potential. And he has no leverage. And somebody's going to give up a 1st, 2nd and 3rd to acquire that... and incur the wrath of Sather? I doubt that.

Now if he suddenly puts up 10 goals 40 points. Well that changes some things.

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10-07-2009, 03:21 PM
  #33
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I totally agree about the second contract issue. It seems like a lot of these players want to make the huge leap from rookie salary to $4M+ in their next contract after only a handful of seasons. There are those who are worth the money but many others are not. Heaven forbid you actually have to earn something over an extended period of time.

Someone much smarter than I am could probably write a very interesting and lengthy analysis of the "2nd NHL Contract Phenomena" lol.

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10-07-2009, 03:26 PM
  #34
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I totally agree about the second contract issue. It seems like a lot of these players want to make the huge leap from rookie salary to $4M+ in their next contract after only a handful of seasons. There are those who are worth the money but many others are not. Heaven forbid you actually have to earn something over an extended period of time.

Someone much smarter than I am could probably write a very interesting and lengthy analysis of the "2nd NHL Contract Phenomena" lol.
Quote:
The Columbus Blue Jackets signed winger Rick Nash to a five-year, $27-million US contract on Monday.

The 21-year-old native of Brampton, Ont., will earn $3.5 million this season, $4.5 million in 2006-07, $5.5 million in 2007-08, $6.5 million in 2008-09 and $7 million in 2009-10.

"In my opinion, Rick Nash is the best young player in the world and I am thrilled for Rick, our organization and our fans that he is going to remain a Blue Jacket," said Columbus general manager Doug MacLean. "At 21 years of age, he has established himself as a true superstar in the game.
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/story/2005/...ash050808.html

This contract established the precedent. $5.4 million for a player coming off a 3 year ELC.

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10-07-2009, 03:35 PM
  #35
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I think a lot of this whole big 2nd contract has to do with the offer sheet.

Look at the guys who end up getting the big contracts (Nash, Kessel, Lucic, Vanek, Penner). They are guys who other teams coveted enough to be willing to throw offer sheets their way. They had leverage in this case, if their original team didn't give into their demands, they could just get another team to give them an offer sheet and put their team in a tough spot (and in the cases of Kessel and Penner, ended up moving as a result of it).

Guys like Dubinsky and Stafford, while fine young players, simply weren't viewed by NHL teams as players worthy enough to throw an offersheet at and give up draft picks for. Thus, they had much less leverage and were forced to accept lesser deals.

I don't consider myself to be an expert on stuff like this, but that is my take on the whole thing.

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10-07-2009, 03:55 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
This contract established the precedent. $5.4 million for a player coming off a 3 year ELC.
Which is what Kessel got, appropriately enough.

But seriously, it's a front office issue. Aside from the leverage they're not utilizing, what about the bevvy of unsigned UFA's that could have filled the void in this young players absence? When you've got an established player who can be had at or below the youngster's demands, then it should, in theory, drive that youngster's value down. You think Dubi "settles" for the contract he got without Prospal jumping right into his spot in preseason and looking good from day one? Shrewd move by Sather IMO.

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10-07-2009, 03:58 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
Which is what Kessel got, appropriately enough.

But seriously, it's a front office issue. Aside from the leverage they're not utilizing, what about the bevvy of unsigned UFA's that could have filled the void in this young players absence? When you've got an established player who can be had at or below the youngster's demands, then it should, in theory, drive that youngster's value down. You think Dubi "settles" for the contract he got without Prospal jumping right into his spot in preseason and looking good from day one? Shrewd move by Sather IMO.
Really good point, Melrose.

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10-07-2009, 04:09 PM
  #38
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If The market price for 2nd contract RFAs who havent reached 20 goals is now 4 million, Drury and Kotalik look like bargain deals. Boston management must be ********.

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10-07-2009, 04:22 PM
  #39
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The Bruins are playing him more on his over all potentiol than his current & past acomplishments. It's a huge gamble. I dwould lose my mind if Sather did it.

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10-07-2009, 06:01 PM
  #40
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...how much more do you love Sather for talking Dubinsky down from the 4M a year deal he was originally seeking?
I think if anything both sides start far apart in their negotiations knowing that they're going to give in and meet somewhere in the middle. The initial QO was no closer to Dubinsky's value then a 4 million dollar request. What he got, was pretty close to somewhere in the middle.

What I'd really love is if Sather would follow the lead of other GMs and sign his guy BEFORE he becomes a RFA. Lets get a deal done now for Girardi and Staal. Lets work out a deal during the Olympic Break for guys like Higgins. Coming to a guy early and making it known you want to keep him around can speak volumes for a guy who likes playing in the city he's in, rather then playing the tough bargainer role. Do that and a player will put you up against their only bargaining option of free agency.

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10-07-2009, 06:43 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
I think if anything both sides start far apart in their negotiations knowing that they're going to give in and meet somewhere in the middle. The initial QO was no closer to Dubinsky's value then a 4 million dollar request. What he got, was pretty close to somewhere in the middle.

What I'd really love is if Sather would follow the lead of other GMs and sign his guy BEFORE he becomes a RFA. Lets get a deal done now for Girardi and Staal. Lets work out a deal during the Olympic Break for guys like Higgins. Coming to a guy early and making it known you want to keep him around can speak volumes for a guy who likes playing in the city he's in, rather then playing the tough bargainer role. Do that and a player will put you up against their only bargaining option of free agency.
The only good deal for Girardi would be dealing him to another team.

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Old
10-07-2009, 07:11 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
The only good deal for Girardi would be dealing him to another team.
yeah i cant see girardi coming back. his deal is up after this year? i can see sangs/mcd/sauer taking 6th spot on ELC.

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10-07-2009, 07:23 PM
  #43
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yeah i cant see girardi coming back. his deal is up after this year? i can see sangs/mcd/sauer taking 6th spot on ELC.
I wouldn't mind Girardi back if was playing 5/6 minutes making less than 1 million a year.
Hopefully we can rid of one of the dead weight brothers Redden or Rozi in the off season or at the trade deadline.
So next year we would have something like

Staal - Gilroy
Del Zotto - Redden or Rozi
Girardi - Rookie or Free Agent

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