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Old
10-18-2009, 11:27 AM
  #1
WestIslander
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What if?

What if last season Gainey made his decision about the future ahead of time and traded, Koivu, Kovalev, Komisarek, Tanguay and the other UFA's for picks and prospects?

Example: Komisarek and Higgins to New York for Del Zotto and a 1st round pick

This could of meant rebuilding Hamilton again from the bottom up and having enough picks in the coming two drafts to either move up into the top five and get a player like Duchene or Kadri, or make a move and pick up Bouwmeester's rights etc.

I just think that after letting the likes of Souray, Streit, Ryder and others walk away with no asset in return, Gainey would of said enough is enough and since I am re-vamping the whole team next season, why not re-vamp Philadelphia Flyers style, I mean look at them now!

Bottom line is that we have NO top 6 forward developing after Pacioretty, our defense is okay ONLY if Subban, Weber and Carle all pan out by next season and after Price and Halak, we are banking on two 6'6" + goalies to make it to the NHL.

I think we could of been in such a great spot if we had sold at the trade deadline last season...

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10-18-2009, 11:31 AM
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HabsHockey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestIslander View Post
What if last season Gainey made his decision about the future ahead of time and traded, Koivu, Kovalev, Komisarek, Tanguay and the other UFA's for picks and prospects?

Example: Komisarek and Higgins to New York for Del Zotto and a 1st round pick

This could of meant rebuilding Hamilton again from the bottom up and having enough picks in the coming two drafts to either move up into the top five and get a player like Duchene or Kadri, or make a move and pick up Bouwmeester's rights etc.

I just think that after letting the likes of Souray, Streit, Ryder and others walk away with no asset in return, Gainey would of said enough is enough and since I am re-vamping the whole team next season, why not re-vamp Philadelphia Flyers style, I mean look at them now!

Bottom line is that we have NO top 6 forward developing after Pacioretty, our defense is okay ONLY if Subban, Weber and Carle all pan out by next season and after Price and Halak, we are banking on two 6'6" + goalies to make it to the NHL.

I think we could of been in such a great spot if we had sold at the trade deadline last season...
Before you do this, ask yourself why New York wants a Ufa and Higgs for a top prospect and a 1st round pick. Then you can start another thread.

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Old
10-18-2009, 11:35 AM
  #3
Habs 1909
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestIslander View Post
What if last season Gainey made his decision about the future ahead of time and traded, Koivu, Kovalev, Komisarek, Tanguay and the other UFA's for picks and prospects?

Example: Komisarek and Higgins to New York for Del Zotto and a 1st round pick

This could of meant rebuilding Hamilton again from the bottom up and having enough picks in the coming two drafts to either move up into the top five and get a player like Duchene or Kadri, or make a move and pick up Bouwmeester's rights etc.

I just think that after letting the likes of Souray, Streit, Ryder and others walk away with no asset in return, Gainey would of said enough is enough and since I am re-vamping the whole team next season, why not re-vamp Philadelphia Flyers style, I mean look at them now!

Bottom line is that we have NO top 6 forward developing after Pacioretty, our defense is okay ONLY if Subban, Weber and Carle all pan out by next season and after Price and Halak, we are banking on two 6'6" + goalies to make it to the NHL.

I think we could of been in such a great spot if we had sold at the trade deadline last season...

Can you imagine the reaction of the fans if Gainey were to sell at the trade deadline when we were in the playoff picture, in the centennial season?

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10-18-2009, 11:36 AM
  #4
CrAzYNiNe
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And then ask yourself if you really wanted the habs to not trying and make a push in the playoffs

We must stop forgetting that Markov was injured last game of the season and first game of this one. No one knew this was going to happen

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Old
10-18-2009, 11:38 AM
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The Nightman
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Del Zotto is already better then Komisarek

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Old
10-18-2009, 11:39 AM
  #6
HabsHockey
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Also there is a search function and this thread has been posted about once a week for the past year or more.

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Old
10-18-2009, 11:41 AM
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I thought last year before the deadline that any player Gainey wanted to resign, he should have tried to get it done at that time. If there was no deal to be made, then trade them. I can't understand why he leaves negotiating to the last minute..

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10-18-2009, 11:52 AM
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I fail to imagine anyone being happy with that trade if it had went down. But because he's off to a strong start, Del Zotto's another one of those guys we should've got instead of [insert name].

What makes you think the Rangers would've given him up?
What makes you think he'd be a PPG player for us this early in the year?
Weren't the Rangers pushing the cap last year?

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Old
10-18-2009, 12:06 PM
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Bacchus1
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Dude, it would be so awesome. We'd be the best team in the league. They would probably cancel the season and just give us the cup. Wow ... awesome.


Now, imagine if you could fly, or be invisible for the day ... wow, awesome!

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Old
10-18-2009, 12:08 PM
  #10
Goldthorpe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestIslander View Post
What if last season Gainey made his decision about the future ahead of time and traded, Koivu, Kovalev, Komisarek, Tanguay and the other UFA's for picks and prospects?
The year of the centennial?!?!?!?

Do you have any idea of what would have been the media and the fans reaction?

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Old
10-18-2009, 12:13 PM
  #11
Gary320
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You are thinking too much in the PRESENT than in the past.

Go back in time.. and if the Canadiens traded away Komisarek (Who alot were raving that we should sign for 3.5-5 mill(including me)) and Higgins for Del Zotto (Who HAD NOT made a name for himself yet) and a first rounder.. while we were headed for the playoffs.. NOT TO MENTION..

Why the **** would the Rangers even ANSWER the phone call? .. OH HEY GAINEY, YEAH A UFA AND A RFA FOR A PROSPECT AND 1st ROUNDER??? SURE WHY THE **** NOT.

The whole city would have pulled a collective PMS fit.

Honestly, some people here need to think before.. I'm just frustrated at the amount of dumb over-exaggerated posts people are making. 7 games in, and people already wanna fire Martin... already wanna trade our first line....

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Old
10-18-2009, 01:12 PM
  #12
WeThreeKings
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Still, all in all, Gainey has lost Souray, Streit, Koivu, Kovalev, Tanguay, Komisarek and Lang without getting any of value back.

For Rivet we got Gorges and a 1st round pick (Max Pacioretty).

Souray being dealt at the trade deadline that year, would've netted us a first and a prospect, certainly.
Losing Streit, couldn't have dealt him that season, we were first in the East. Should've resigned him earlier on in the season. Gainey's no negotiating during the season policy hurt us there.

Koivu, we could've gotten a 2nd round pick and a mid range prospect for him, easily.
Kovalev we wanted to keep by all accounts, but to say he wasn't worth a first round pick for a play-off team, would be ridiculous.

Tanguay and Lang cost us two 2nd round picks and a 1st round pick. We could've easily retained a 1st rounder, or at least both those 2nd round picks if we were to deal them last season. Well, Lang and Tanguay were injured, I guess that diminishes the value there.

But still, I used to support Gainey, but most GMs in the league have restocked their cupboards and been pretty good at not losing UFAs for no assets at all. We've been doing it a little too frequently lately, while being able to sign UFAs this season has softened the blow, we have little coming up of the superstar variety.

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Old
10-18-2009, 01:17 PM
  #13
Goldthorpe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
most GMs in the league have restocked their cupboards and been pretty good at not losing UFAs for no assets at all.
Giving the number of players who hit the UFA market every summer, I would say this statement is ridiculously false. Losing UFA for nothing is the norm, not the exception.

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10-18-2009, 01:19 PM
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WeThreeKings
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldthorpe View Post
Giving the number of players who hit the UFA market every summer, I would say this statement is ridiculously false. Losing UFA for nothing is the norm, not the exception.
How many of them lose them to UFA and don't trade them? And how many are gone to UFA after being rentals?

Atlanta may have not got the best return for Marian Hossa, but they got something for him.

In our team, Souray was a star player, who we knew wasn't going to come back, we weren't going to do anything in the play-offs, and we got nothing for him.

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Old
10-18-2009, 01:20 PM
  #15
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BG rarely plans for the future. Gave up too much for Schneider, trades picks, lets UFA walk instead of trading them.

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Old
10-18-2009, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Still, all in all, Gainey has lost Souray, Streit, Koivu, Kovalev, Tanguay, Komisarek and Lang without getting any of value back.

For Rivet we got Gorges and a 1st round pick (Max Pacioretty).

Souray being dealt at the trade deadline that year, would've netted us a first and a prospect, certainly.
Losing Streit, couldn't have dealt him that season, we were first in the East. Should've resigned him earlier on in the season. Gainey's no negotiating during the season policy hurt us there.

Koivu, we could've gotten a 2nd round pick and a mid range prospect for him, easily.
Kovalev we wanted to keep by all accounts, but to say he wasn't worth a first round pick for a play-off team, would be ridiculous.

Tanguay and Lang cost us two 2nd round picks and a 1st round pick. We could've easily retained a 1st rounder, or at least both those 2nd round picks if we were to deal them last season. Well, Lang and Tanguay were injured, I guess that diminishes the value there.

But still, I used to support Gainey, but most GMs in the league have restocked their cupboards and been pretty good at not losing UFAs for no assets at all. We've been doing it a little too frequently lately, while being able to sign UFAs this season has softened the blow, we have little coming up of the superstar variety.
So you wanted Gainey to trade Souray while we were chasing a playoff spot and missed it by what losing to the leafs in a final game? Easy to look back now and say oh he should have traded since we never made it but everyone would have called for his head at the time if he did trade him while we were fighting for the playoffs. We made the playoffs last year so why would we trade koivu, kovalev and komisarek during a centennial year for draft picks? Again everyone would call for Gainey's head. IMO if we could not have traded for Gomez this summer koivu would have been back. Komisarek is the reason why he's not here this year not Gaineys so why in the **** would he trade him last year when he had intentions of signing komi and though komi would resign with us? Kovalev is the same thing he took too long responding to Gaineys offer and Gainey moved on so he would not miss out on someone. Lang was injured from what feburary to the end of the season why would anyone give us anything for him? Maybe Gainey should ask for a crystal ball this year for christmas

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Old
10-18-2009, 01:26 PM
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Some people here are really saying that we should trade our bests players come Trade deadline to get a return just because we might lose them to free agency?

NO TEAM in the NHL operates like that.

maybe they should've traded their best players at the deadline in 93 and 86, nobody thought they would do anything in the playoffs.

Seriously...

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10-18-2009, 01:27 PM
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shutehinside
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I hate these hindsight threads that compound their "points" with a mixture of fantasy and revisionist history.

Soo stupid.

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Old
10-18-2009, 01:35 PM
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Mats NAslund
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Originally Posted by HabsHockey View Post
Before you do this, ask yourself why New York wants a Ufa and Higgs for a top prospect and a 1st round pick. Then you can start another thread.
It would have also meant that Montreal would not have made the playoffs the year they let Sourray walk and last year!

Had Montreal traded the guys you mention how were they going to make the playoffs!

I would never want to see MONTREAL TANK IT ON PURPOSE LIKE YOU SUGGEST -OP

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Old
10-18-2009, 01:39 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
How many of them lose them to UFA and don't trade them? And how many are gone to UFA after being rentals?

Atlanta may have not got the best return for Marian Hossa, but they got something for him.

In our team, Souray was a star player, who we knew wasn't going to come back, we weren't going to do anything in the play-offs, and we got nothing for him.
What did New Jersey get for Scott Niedermayer ? How about Brian Rafalski ? Yeah, it's not just Montréal who drafts, grooms and then loses their players. It happens to every team.

Also, Montréal fans and the higher up want playoffs, while teams like LA are complacent with finishing in the bottom for 8 years.

They've waited 8 years without the playoffs to finally have a stockpile of good players. Do you really think Montréal could go like that without a riot ?

Would have, could have and should have mean nothing. We could have traded Roy before he played that infamous game in Detroit and got a large, large return.

See, that's stupid and so is speculating about the past.

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10-18-2009, 01:41 PM
  #21
Gary320
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List of GOOD/GREAT players who did not resign with their team during the off-season. (Thus GMs got nothing)

Saku Koivu
Mike Cammalleri
John Madden
Vaclav Prospal
Marian Gaborik
Martin Havlat
Alex Kovalev
Marian Hossa
Todd Bertuzzi
Nikolai Khabibulin
Martin Biron
Dwayne Roloson
Craig Anderson

and there are some I left out too. It just shows it's not like Gainey is the only one who doesnt get anything in return when UFA's dont resign. Teams keep the players for the playoff pushes.. or maybe No one wants to give up the future for a UFA. That's just last year.

We could go back.. but I dont have the time for that.

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Old
10-18-2009, 01:45 PM
  #22
Kirk Muller
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mats NAslund View Post
It would have also meant that Montreal would not have made the playoffs the year they let Sourray walk and last year!

Had Montreal traded the guys you mention how were they going to make the playoffs!

I would never want to see MONTREAL TANK IT ON PURPOSE LIKE YOU SUGGEST -OP
I don't like the word tank but I would have preferred a complete rebuild but in my opinion that should have started when Andre Savard was in town and frankly I think Gainey should have took reigns of it when Savard didn't do a full rebuild.

Gainey's time to start from scratch was the year he took over when everyone was willing to give him a few years of leeway.

Andre Savard I think coined the phrase "competitive rebuild" which unfortunately is now what we see 6-7 years later still. Unfortunately because Montreal never had the base core players that you build franchise around, and really don't, it just becomes a recycling of similar players and treading water around the the bottom playoff spots while not getting top picks.

Then you get into the problem this organization that to this day, still has major issues in developing players.

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10-18-2009, 01:50 PM
  #23
Gary320
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Originally Posted by Kirk Muller View Post
I don't like the word tank but I would have preferred a complete rebuild but in my opinion that should have started when Andre Savard was in town and frankly I think Gainey should have took reigns of it when Savard didn't do a full rebuild.

Gainey's time to start from scratch was the year he took over when everyone was willing to give him a few years of leeway.

Andre Savard I think coined the phrase "competitive rebuild" which unfortunately is now what we see 6-7 years later still. Unfortunately because Montreal never had the base core players that you build franchise around, and really don't, it just becomes a recycling of similar players and treading water around the the bottom playoff spots while not getting top picks.

Then you get into the problem this organization that to this day, still has major issues in developing players.
Thats the real problem. Trade away one of the Kostitsyn brothers and I'll be afraid to see them get great numbers.

Makes me wonder how good would Pacioretty be in New York for example?

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Old
10-18-2009, 01:53 PM
  #24
ReVeuF
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I said on this forum at trade deadline that i hope the Habs would be seller, Bob G. did not think the same way. At least we would have picks from 1-2-3rd round instead of nothing right now.

Komisarek, Koivu, Kovalev, Tanguay all would worth at least a 2nd each last season. And the Draft was in Montreal, Gainey really did a major error right here.

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Old
10-18-2009, 01:56 PM
  #25
Kirk Muller
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
What did New Jersey get for Scott Niedermayer ? How about Brian Rafalski ? Yeah, it's not just Montréal who drafts, grooms and then loses their players. It happens to every team.

Also, Montréal fans and the higher up want playoffs, while teams like LA are complacent with finishing in the bottom for 8 years.

They've waited 8 years without the playoffs to finally have a stockpile of good players. Do you really think Montréal could go like that without a riot ?

Would have, could have and should have mean nothing. We could have traded Roy before he played that infamous game in Detroit and got a large, large return.

See, that's stupid and so is speculating about the past.
Aside from this last off season i agree. Teams let go players. Teams rarely if ever let go one of their top defenseman and 3 top forwards and get nothing in return in ONE offseason.

It either took too long for him to realize his team wasn't good enough or was too blind or loyal to see it until the off season. Either way, this off season was very poor asset management.

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