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The Flu v. Kings 10/17/09

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Old
10-18-2009, 12:07 PM
  #51
BigKing
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Originally Posted by Fatty View Post
Getting used to losing is the problem. Winning=playoffs. They need to grow a pair, crash the net and win against some of the more successful teams. Otherwise, they'll be bottom dwellers who sneak into the playoffs and play the 1st seed in the opening round. Scuderi "didn't come here to finish second place."
Thanks for the pep-talk coach.

When I said "used to this" I meant the fans here that want to change everything after losing back-to-back road games to superior opponents.

Of course they need to win against better teams but they aren't going to beat said better teams every single time they play them. You had guys in here who wanted to demote Quick after he lost following four wins in a row that he was in net for. No wonder LA has never developed a goalie as apparently you can never have a bad game: especially if you were just named #2 star of the week by the NHL and were at the helm for a four-game winnning streak.

My point is that it's very early in the season. They aren't that good and the playoffs are going to be tough to make, just like anyone with a hockey brain predicted for this team. These guys are going to hover around .500 if everything goes right. Hopefully they really gel by the halfway point and pull a 2008-09 St. Louis as opposed to a 2008-09 Phoenix.

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10-18-2009, 12:18 PM
  #52
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I rubbed my eyes and thought it was 1995 and I was watching the Devils.

Then they got scored on and I realized the mid-90s Devils, while playing boring dump and chase, were much better defensively.
ha ha. True. Those Devils teams were boring. Matt13 would tell you that it was like watching old people ****. He's into some weird **** though

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10-18-2009, 12:21 PM
  #53
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I'm a little baffled by all of the Williams hate. Sure he got abused trying to play 1-on-1 defesne against a perennial hi-lite reel producer in Nash and nobody likes him on the power play but other than that I don't see the hate.

Is he not putting up points? Am I the only one who sees him skate in hard after pucks? Am I the only one seeing the little nifty passes he makes?

I think Purcell has played well but I don't understand the "flashes" he's shown compared to the "pedestrian" play of the nearly point-a-game Williams who just happened to show me two flashes of a puck ringing off the post the past two games.

Williams isn't the problem and the only forward who is better than him offensively on the lower lines is Frolov who has been much worse during the losing streak. You should be tearing Frolov a new one after he was directly responsible for the 1st goal last night and I believe it was another genius pass of his that led to the "How not to pull a goalie" clinic the Kings put on in the 3rd.

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Old
10-18-2009, 12:24 PM
  #54
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I can take 12th place finish, but not Phoenix finishing higher in the standings. Remind me, why does Lombardi hate good coaches?

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10-18-2009, 01:37 PM
  #55
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Remind me, why does Lombardi hate good coaches?
What "good coaches" would those be?

We blamed the Detroit game on the refs, and now the Columbus game on the Flu, what are we gonna blame the Dallas game on? I vote Texas.

BLAME TEXAS!

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10-18-2009, 01:41 PM
  #56
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no joke, williams is really becoming a drag on the first line. he just doesn't have the quickness or anticipation to make plays. anytime he touches the puck, the defenders are on him, and he coughs it up.

it seems pretty clear that the proximate cause of the kings' decline is such awful passing, and frankly the ability to move the puck period. defensemen are dumping the puck into the other team's zone without making outlet passes to create offense, and forwards are unable to make enough passes on attack to maintain possession long enough to generate scoring chances. they got away with it against the isles, but clearly have not against nyr, the wings, or cbj. the big question for me now is whether the passing, and lack of sharpness in moving the puck is the root cause, or if there's some other systemic problem of which poor puck movement is but a symptom. i'd say that dump and chase we saw last night was a symptom of poor puck movement, since if you can't connect more than two passes, you may as well dump and chase. but why the f can't they move the puck well consistently? insufficient talent? simply being out of sync because it's early in the season? not skating well enough as a team and therefore not available to receive passes?

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Old
10-18-2009, 02:01 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by BigKing View Post
I'm a little baffled by all of the Williams hate. Sure he got abused trying to play 1-on-1 defesne against a perennial hi-lite reel producer in Nash and nobody likes him on the power play but other than that I don't see the hate.

Is he not putting up points? Am I the only one who sees him skate in hard after pucks? Am I the only one seeing the little nifty passes he makes?

I think Purcell has played well but I don't understand the "flashes" he's shown compared to the "pedestrian" play of the nearly point-a-game Williams who just happened to show me two flashes of a puck ringing off the post the past two games.

Williams isn't the problem and the only forward who is better than him offensively on the lower lines is Frolov who has been much worse during the losing streak. You should be tearing Frolov a new one after he was directly responsible for the 1st goal last night and I believe it was another genius pass of his that led to the "How not to pull a goalie" clinic the Kings put on in the 3rd.
williams is scoring by diffusion. he's on the line with smyth and kopitar, who have clearly been the two biggest offensive threats so far. therefore, williams picks up points. i think his play has been pretty bad. not awful, but he's not going to come anywhere close to 20 goals, never mind 30. he consistently coughs up the puck in the attacking zone, always seems to be drifting away from the net, and in general plays a peripheral game. i see far too little aggression and authority in his play. if he weren't on the top line, i think his offensive contributions would be close to nil. sure, he's made a few nifty plays, and he generally hustles, but to this point, he's basically an energy player on a line with kopitar and smyth.

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10-18-2009, 02:14 PM
  #58
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There is no excuse for that.
You have to beat a team like Columbus.

As a coach i would be going nuts, doesn't matter what you are trying
it is going wrong.

Take the first Jackets goal as an example.
just seconds before the period end, Chimera scores the goal of his life. He will never score again like that.
The 2nd goal in Columbus PP.
2 or 3 Kings had the chance to clear the puck but hit each other or didn't hit the puck in a big mess in front of the goal.
..........

this has nothing to do with bad coaching or player skills or whatever........ and flu is not really helping.

it was simply and plain bad luck,
we can't win every game boys.......
Right now it's not that bad.
Alone the case that we expect wins in most games, is a good sign.

The time will tell and the first 5 games was not a fluke

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10-18-2009, 02:21 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agentfouser View Post
no joke, williams is really becoming a drag on the first line. he just doesn't have the quickness or anticipation to make plays. anytime he touches the puck, the defenders are on him, and he coughs it up.

it seems pretty clear that the proximate cause of the kings' decline is such awful passing, and frankly the ability to move the puck period. defensemen are dumping the puck into the other team's zone without making outlet passes to create offense, and forwards are unable to make enough passes on attack to maintain possession long enough to generate scoring chances. they got away with it against the isles, but clearly have not against nyr, the wings, or cbj. the big question for me now is whether the passing, and lack of sharpness in moving the puck is the root cause, or if there's some other systemic problem of which poor puck movement is but a symptom. i'd say that dump and chase we saw last night was a symptom of poor puck movement, since if you can't connect more than two passes, you may as well dump and chase. but why the f can't they move the puck well consistently? insufficient talent? simply being out of sync because it's early in the season? not skating well enough as a team and therefore not available to receive passes?

I think Lombardi had hoped that either Johnson or Hickey would step in immediately and fill the loss of Quincey, which hasn't really happened. Quincey was the man on the PP so losing a player like that is always hard. It seems as though the Kings need another puck moving defensemen and a 2nd line center who is a playmaker. Handzus and Stoll are not playmakers although they provide the Kings with the style of play they apparently want. Can it be fixed with a Hickey call up (sounds weird)? Is it time to package Frolov and Stoll? Frolov for Barker? I'm not sure but the one thing that you can be happy about as a Kings fan despite the recent losses is there are pieces that can be moved for other players. It wasn't like that in the past. The depth chart was severly limited, journeymen players were eating up big minutes. Now the Kings can afford to trade a guy like Frolov, who used to be THE #1 LW because nobody else could do a damn thing. Can the Kings afford to trade Frolov for Barker? Sure. You have quite a few forwards who would love his ice time from Moller to Simmonds to some kid in Manchester. It's time for Lombardi to show us what he's made of, this team has to make the playoffs this season. They have the talent, there are only a couple of areas that need work and those areas can be easily addressed with some good moves.

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Old
10-18-2009, 02:28 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
I think Lombardi had hoped that either Johnson or Hickey would step in immediately and fill the loss of Quincey, which hasn't really happened. Quincey was the man on the PP so losing a player like that is always hard.
How is Johnson supposed to fill in the void of Quincey when Williams and Doughty get all the PP time, especially with the 1st unit?

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10-18-2009, 02:37 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
There is no excuse for that.
You have to beat a team like Columbus.

As a coach i would be going nuts, doesn't matter what you are trying
it is going wrong.

Take the first Jackets goal as an example.
just seconds before the period end, Chimera scores the goal of his life. He will never score again like that.
The 2nd goal in Columbus PP.
2 or 3 Kings had the chance to clear the puck but hit each other or didn't hit the puck in a big mess in front of the goal.
..........

this has nothing to do with bad coaching or player skills or whatever........ and flu is not really helping.

it was simply and plain bad luck,
we can't win every game boys.......
Right now it's not that bad.
Alone the case that we expect wins in most games, is a good sign.

The time will tell and the first 5 games was not a fluke
Thanks for the disrespect it is appreciated. You mean a Columbus team that made the playoffs last year and leads the league in PK. And for your information Chimmer had at least 6 or 7 of those last year.

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Old
10-18-2009, 02:48 PM
  #62
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Did Moller really only get 8 minutes this game?

Also, anyone notice that we had the same refs as the Wings game? We all learned something tonight. Making a cross check motion and missing is a penalty. Anybody got a rule book handy?
Moller got tossed around like a rag doll when he was out there.

I laughed when Jim noted that it was Dan Marouelli's last season as a ref and he implied Bob wouldn't be sad to see him go. I'm right there with ya Bob.

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10-18-2009, 02:50 PM
  #63
William H Bonney
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Thanks for the disrespect it is appreciated. You mean a Columbus team that made the playoffs last year and leads the league in PK. And for your information Chimmer had at least 6 or 7 of those last year.
We're a depressed and miserable bunch here. If you followed the Kings as we do, you'd understand.

Don't be a stranger. We just want to be where you guys were last year.

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Old
10-18-2009, 02:53 PM
  #64
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There is no excuse for that.
You have to beat a team like Columbus.

Its 2009 not 2005.









Anyways, when are we going to get Williams off the point on PP. He is a horrible defender on a turn over on the PP. And I have to say I loved Cbus's enegy line. those guys crushed some Kings.

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10-18-2009, 02:57 PM
  #65
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When I get around to it today I'm going to post video of Nash's SH goal to prove to you all that the goal was more Brown and Smyth's fault than Williams.

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10-18-2009, 03:03 PM
  #66
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Are you all out of your ****ing minds...how the hell can you expect crisp passes and normal play when 7-8 players has the flu..... no matter how pro you are when you are sick or ill you can not perform as you normally would...and hockey pro players are not super homo sapiens.

..or maybe some of you don't stay at home WHEN YOU have the flu.

I think it is a ****ing miracle that those players still played.

So forget this game ....

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Old
10-18-2009, 03:10 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by William H Bonney View Post
We're a depressed and miserable bunch here. If you followed the Kings as we do, you'd understand.

Don't be a stranger. We just want to be where you guys were last year.
William

Grew up at the Fabulous Forum in the 70's. I understand all the pain and Hi times being a King fan can bring. That is why I do not like to see comments like that. Assume every opponent is worthy and play them to the hilt. It is one of the things that has changed with the CBJ. Every game really is a playoff game mentality.

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10-18-2009, 03:15 PM
  #68
William H Bonney
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William

Grew up at the Fabulous Forum in the 70's. I understand all the pain and Hi times being a King fan can bring. That is why I do not like to see comments like that. Assume every opponent is worthy and play them to the hilt. It is one of the things that has changed with the CBJ. Every game really is a playoff game mentality.
Ah now I feel sorry for you too for knowing the pain that is the Kings!

Two more things though: 1) The poster is Kurrilino. He's a funny guy and says things in jest, I think. See this recent gem:

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Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
I just had to drop my anger somewhere.........
Last year i smashed the interior of my girlfriend at the Montreal - Kings freak show.......

This time i had to react somehow different
2)I agree with your assessment on the Kings needing to learn to treat every game as if it's a must win situation. I think that's why some fans are frustrated with our 3 losses in a row. The majority of us know how good the Jackets are right now, but that doesn't excuse the Kings losing to them (and vice versa if looking at it the other way). If we expect to compete for a playoff spot and ultimately in the playoffs, we have to expect to beat good teams.

That said, nice having you here on the boards. You should come around more often, especially when we're winning, it's much more enjoyable

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10-18-2009, 04:01 PM
  #69
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Gentlemen, let's take a deep breath, calm down and realize this is a marathon. The team is still trying to find its identity. Truth be told, they need to play ugly hockey. This is not a finesse team and the players need it to be hammered home that they aren't going to win bonus points making the pretty plays. When the team was winning and playing at its best, they were gritty, going to the hard areas and paying the price to get scoring chances. I think the timid play is a result of exhaustion/fatigue.

It is going to take maybe a month for them to hit their stride to be in game shape. Are they out of gas already? Quite possibly. But again, this is a marathon and there are lots of games left to play. Too soon to evaluate the value or impact of every player thus far. I don't think we've seen them play up to their full potential quite yet. We haven't seen the best from the team, not this early into the season.

Just remember not to be overly optimistic but also not to be pessimistic to the point of writing off the team before the first month of hockey. Lets be realistic and reasonable. The pressure is on this group to perform, some may buckle from it, some may step up. We'll see exactly where this team stands when we hit the mid-way point of the season. Then Lombardi has to evaluate what to do with this squad.

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10-18-2009, 04:04 PM
  #70
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When I get around to it today I'm going to post video of Nash's SH goal to prove to you all that the goal was more Brown and Smyth's fault than Williams.
Anytime you're asking a forward to play D, you're asking for problems, especially when Nash is on the ice. I'm not wild about Williams on the PP either, but he's been solid 5 on 5. I'm glad he's a King.

- T

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10-18-2009, 04:04 PM
  #71
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The hockey season is not a marathon. It is a series of 60 minute sprints. In a marathon, one saves their energy and bides their time.

In such sprints, ugly hockey will beat some of the teams, some of the time. I don't know what "finesse" means in this context, but the Kings are a talented team and when boxers start brawling, bad things happen. I would prefer our team play to their strengths, not their coach's limitations.

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10-18-2009, 04:05 PM
  #72
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Anytime you're asking a forward to play D, you're asking for problems, especially when Nash is on the ice. I'm not wild about Williams on the PP either, but he's been solid 5 on 5. I'm glad he's a King.

- T
Agree and as am I.

Williams creates time and space.

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10-18-2009, 04:21 PM
  #73
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Agree and as am I.

Williams creates time and space.
He is also one of the best guys on the team at gaining the red line.

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Old
10-18-2009, 05:04 PM
  #74
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The thing with Williams is that, like Kopitar, he's a finesse player. He makes plays through the middle of the ice and, despite what some believe, has always been an excellent stickhandler and shooter. He's not a grinder. Ryan Smyth is the only player in our top six who you could correctly label a "grinder."

Has anyone ever thought, really thought, about why in the world Smyth waived his NTC to come here? Has anyone noticed how many times Smyth has gone out of his way to point out how set he is in his game and how much he doesn't want to change it? I would very much tend to think that Smyth KNEW TM was a dump and chase grinder of a coach, and he wouldn't make Smyth change his game at all.

Solution

Split up Kopitar and Smyth.

Blasphemy you say? NAY.

Frolov-Kopitar-Williams is a puck protection, finesse line who can make passes, plays, and penetrate the zone with size and speed.

Smyth-Stoll-Brown is a grinding, forechecking, inglourious basterds line that can wear the opposition down, cycle the puck like mad men, and score the dirty goals.

Mixing and matching these six players seems counter productive to me. Put the same players on the same lines and you'll get the same production more consistently - not one game where your top line looks like Ovechkin-Backstrom-Semin, and another game where they look like Larry-Curly-Moe.

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10-18-2009, 05:28 PM
  #75
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The thing with Williams is that, like Kopitar, he's a finesse player. He makes plays through the middle of the ice and, despite what some believe, has always been an excellent stickhandler and shooter. He's not a grinder. Ryan Smyth is the only player in our top six who you could correctly label a "grinder."

Has anyone ever thought, really thought, about why in the world Smyth waived his NTC to come here? Has anyone noticed how many times Smyth has gone out of his way to point out how set he is in his game and how much he doesn't want to change it? I would very much tend to think that Smyth KNEW TM was a dump and chase grinder of a coach, and he wouldn't make Smyth change his game at all.

Solution

Split up Kopitar and Smyth.

Blasphemy you say? NAY.

Frolov-Kopitar-Williams is a puck protection, finesse line who can make passes, plays, and penetrate the zone with size and speed.

Smyth-Stoll-Brown is a grinding, forechecking, inglourious basterds line that can wear the opposition down, cycle the puck like mad men, and score the dirty goals.

Mixing and matching these six players seems counter productive to me. Put the same players on the same lines and you'll get the same production more consistently - not one game where your top line looks like Ovechkin-Backstrom-Semin, and another game where they look like Larry-Curly-Moe.
That's just silly. Moe would play center on that line.

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