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Old
10-19-2009, 11:22 AM
  #101
The n00b King
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the reality is that not a single one of you making trade proposals have any idea as to what a player's value is.

take for example the Gomez trade. if that had been put forward, every single one of you would of said: "well he makes a bajillion dollars a year, doesnt score more than 60 points" bla bla bla followed by "he has negative value". And then you get proven wrong by seeing Gomez being traded for Higgins/McDonaugh and a 2nd (or 3rd, dont quite remember). And you also find out that several teams were interested in obtaining his services. Maybe we over paid, but the bottom line is that you guys dont know how to value players.

And lets face it, how SHOULD we know? We may have a perceived value of certain players, but our perception is rarely identical to someone else's. Plus none of us are privy to the conversations between GMs.

Maybe getting Barket will cost nothing more than a prospect like Fischer and a 3rd round pick. Or not.

Its fun to speculate about what it would take, but none of us know any of substance.

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10-19-2009, 11:26 AM
  #102
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If we're sending Gill the other way I'm all for it. Otherwise we're just cramming Dmen to solve an unsolvable problem: The lost of Markov. Who goes back down Bergeron, Mara? That's a very respectable and classy thing to do.

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10-19-2009, 11:27 AM
  #103
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We all know this trade is only a rumour BUT just for kicks and giggles, let's all play GM for Chicago and Montreal - who's moveable on both sides?

The 'Hawks: I know they want to move Patrick Sharp (UFA) and am assuming they are unhappy with Campbell (huge $) and Huet (stinks). Other than that, I don't know who they want to trade to get what they want.

The Habs: The team needs a PP QB/#1 Dman in the worst way and of course is always searching for that big centreman that will make a difference. Plekanec, the Kostitsyn brothers and Halak are always mentioned as bait.

I'd take Sharp for Pleks or one of the Kostitsyns. Hell maybe MTL does some cap juggling and gets Campbell too in a bigger trade.

Too bad it's just speculation eh.

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Old
10-19-2009, 11:30 AM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smiler2729 View Post
We all know this trade is only a rumour BUT just for kicks and giggles, let's all play GM for Chicago and Montreal - who's moveable on both sides?

The 'Hawks: I know they want to move Patrick Sharp (UFA) and am assuming they are unhappy with Campbell (huge $) and Huet (stinks). Other than that, I don't know who they want to trade to get what they want.

The Habs: The team needs a PP QB/#1 Dman in the worst way and of course is always searching for that big centreman that will make a difference. Plekanec, the Kostitsyn brothers and Halak are always mentioned as bait.

I'd take Sharp for Pleks or one of the Kostitsyns. Hell maybe MTL does some cap juggling and gets Campbell too in a bigger trade.

Too bad it's just speculation eh.
Sharp is signed until 2011-2012 - not an ufa

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Old
10-19-2009, 11:35 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
Sharp is signed until 2011-2012 - not an ufa
Yeah sorry my bad, they want to trade him because of all the other pending UFAs & RFAs that they have to sign (Kane etc...)

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Old
10-19-2009, 12:00 PM
  #106
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What happens when Hossa is ready to play? Do the Hawks have to clear salary to fit Hossa's salary in under the cap before he can be activated?

Something similar to the Flyer's situation last season when Briere was ready to play..I seem to recall that Briere couldn't be activated to play because his salary would have put the Flyers over the cap and they had to clear salary first to fit Briere in..I assume the Hawks will be in a similar situation this year with Hossa?

With some key RFA's coming up for raises this summer and the Hawks already with cap issues some players will have to be moved for prospects or picks to keep their young core together it looks like..

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10-19-2009, 12:23 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by sheed36 View Post
What happens when Hossa is ready to play? Do the Hawks have to clear salary to fit Hossa's salary in under the cap before he can be activated?

Something similar to the Flyer's situation last season when Briere was ready to play..I seem to recall that Briere couldn't be activated to play because his salary would have put the Flyers over the cap and they had to clear salary first to fit Briere in..I assume the Hawks will be in a similar situation this year with Hossa?

With some key RFA's coming up for raises this summer and the Hawks already with cap issues some players will have to be moved for prospects or picks to keep their young core together it looks like..
They are $5 million over right now with Hossa on the IR, once he comes back that is the salary putting them over again and he is due back in late November or early December. You also have to look at the injuries to Eager and Burish (Burish out 6 months and Eager day-to-day), that is 1.5 million combined in cap space as well.

The Hawks are so pressed for cap that they are sending Skille down to Rockford in the AHL after every game to save the minimum on salary when he is up.

How people think that the Hawks are in a position of power to trade and get what they want really puzzles me because this team is hard pressed to get even a little fair value in picks or prospects.

If Gainey can do it he maybe able to save his team in a multi player trade without selling the farm or taking away too much from his own club.

Let's face it, the Hawks are going to want to get these players in the East because it could haunt them in the end if they are in the West.

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Old
10-19-2009, 12:26 PM
  #108
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You're crazy. Brisebois? I don't even know how you could come up with that. It's as arbitrary as saying Scott Gomez is Radek Bonk. WTF.
Have you ever watched Barker play, then? I agree there is a stylistic difference in the way Barker shoots the puck better vs. the way Brisebois is more likely to move it ahead. But style aside, they are both unidimensionally mediocre. They provide offensive help, though not overwhelming offensive help. And neither has a head for playing in their own zones. They are (were in Brisebois' case) both liabilities and turn over risks in their own zone. To get the most out of them, you have to find the right protective partner to pair with them, otherwise their decent-but-not-overwhelming offensive contributions will be more than cancelled out by what they cost you defensively.

I would take Barker on my team for just money if he was a free agent. I wouldn't trade anything of value for him.

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Old
10-19-2009, 12:26 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Fozz View Post
Barker is great on the PP but a total liability on every other part of the game. Your proposition would be a massive overpayment for the turn over machine that Barker is.
Agreed. According to the Chicago web page Barker has played a total of 157 NHL games and is -22. We've got guys that are better than that!

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Old
10-19-2009, 12:26 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post
They are $5 million over right now with Hossa on the IR, once he comes back that is the salary putting them over again and he is due back in late November or early December. You also have to look at the injuries to Eager and Burish (Burish out 6 months and Eager day-to-day), that is 1.5 million combined in cap space as well.

The Hawks are so pressed for cap that they are sending Skille down to Rockford in the AHL after every game to save the minimum on salary when he is up.

How people think that the Hawks are in a position of power to trade and get what they want really puzzles me because this team is hard pressed to get even a little fair value in picks or prospects.

If Gainey can do it he maybe able to save his team in a multi player trade without selling the farm or taking away too much from his own club.

Let's face it, the Hawks are going to want to get these players in the East because it could haunt them in the end if they are in the West.
Wow, sounds like a mess for them. Thats what happens when you keep throwing around big contracts

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Old
10-19-2009, 12:34 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by CPrice View Post
Wow, sounds like a mess for them. Thats what happens when you keep throwing around big contracts
The thing is also this, Toews/Kane/Keith could be a combined 14-18 million dollars on the cap too next year, they will have to move a lot to keep their core and others.

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10-19-2009, 01:15 PM
  #112
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Bruce Garrioch reported that Chicago is also trying to move Brian Campbell. This will be obviously hard to do seeing his contract is long and expensive. He said the Habs may be interested but I find it hard to believe that we'll be able to take on a contract like that. (But u never know...Gomez )

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Old
10-19-2009, 01:20 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by sanio123 View Post
Bruce Garrioch reported that Chicago is also trying to move Brian Campbell. This will be obviously hard to do seeing his contract is long and expensive. He said the Habs may be interested but I find it hard to believe that we'll be able to take on a contract like that. (But u never know...Gomez )
Hal Gill and George Laraque for Campbell. Markov on LTIR.

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10-19-2009, 01:21 PM
  #114
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Barker is at the center of so many defensive errors in Chicago that we would do them a favor by taking him on our roster.

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10-19-2009, 01:22 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by sanio123 View Post
Bruce Garrioch reported that Chicago is also trying to move Brian Campbell.
Bruce Garrioch is not the most reliable of rumor men.

The Habs can't fit Campbell under the cap, so really, that's out. Even if they could they're already spending enough on D.

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10-19-2009, 01:34 PM
  #116
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could you imaginee

Markov - Spacek
Hamrlik - Barker
Gorges - Mara


00000000000 lala

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Old
10-19-2009, 01:35 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by odishabs View Post
could you imaginee

Markov - Spacek
Hamrlik - Barker
Gorges - Mara


00000000000 lala
Where is the SuperStar Bergeron ?

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Old
10-19-2009, 01:37 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by odishabs View Post
could you imaginee

Markov - Spacek
Hamrlik - Barker
Gorges - Mara


00000000000 lala
Top D in the NE, perhaps in the east.

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Old
10-19-2009, 01:41 PM
  #119
Myron Gaines*
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Markov Barker
Hamrlik Campbell
Gorges Spacek

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Old
10-19-2009, 01:43 PM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rated R Superstar View Post
Markov Barker
Hamrlik Campbell
Gorges Spacek
Put Markov at 6, Campbell at 7. 13 mill. Hammer at 5.5, 18.5 mill. Spacek is like 3.8, so 22.3. Barker is around 3.5 mill, so 25.8 mill and Gorges at 1.1 = 26.9.

Yeah, our team can't afford that.

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Old
10-19-2009, 01:44 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
Put Markov at 6, Campbell at 7. 13 mill. Hammer at 5.5, 18.5 mill. Spacek is like 3.8, so 22.3. Barker is around 3.5 mill, so 25.8 mill and Gorges at 1.1 = 26.9.

Yeah, our team can't afford that.
But it would be awesome.

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Old
10-19-2009, 01:48 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Rated R Superstar View Post
Markov Barker
Hamrlik Campbell
Gorges Spacek
LOL, salary cap ring a bell?

Markov-Mara
Hamrlik-Barker
Spacek-Gill

Now that is more probable and VERY cool.

Markov-Spacek
Hammer-Barker

For the pp.

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Old
10-19-2009, 01:54 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Kafka View Post
Barker is at the center of so many defensive errors in Chicago that we would do them a favor by taking him on our roster.
LOL... yeah, a 23 year old, 6'3, 220 pound defenseman who had 40 points in 68 games last year. I'm sure they'd jump at the chance to get rid of him, he sucks.

And also, I don't think I need to remind you that HAL GILL is currently logging about 20 minutes a game for us... just about anything would be an improvement for our awful defense at this point.

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Old
10-19-2009, 01:55 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
Have you ever watched Barker play, then? I agree there is a stylistic difference in the way Barker shoots the puck better vs. the way Brisebois is more likely to move it ahead. But style aside, they are both unidimensionally mediocre. They provide offensive help, though not overwhelming offensive help. And neither has a head for playing in their own zones. They are (were in Brisebois' case) both liabilities and turn over risks in their own zone. To get the most out of them, you have to find the right protective partner to pair with them, otherwise their decent-but-not-overwhelming offensive contributions will be more than cancelled out by what they cost you defensively.

I would take Barker on my team for just money if he was a free agent. I wouldn't trade anything of value for him.
I actually prefaced my entries on Barker that i had recently watched him play. He gets the puck out of his own just fine, as good as hamrlik and spacek anyhow. I'm sorry, but his defensive partner is Sopel, the worst d-man on the team. So there's a reason why he doesn't always look good. He's not the greatest defensively, but he's also only 23. He's better than Komisarek anyway, and has way more upside, so i'd take him in a heartbeat. And he had 29 points last year on the PP in only 68 games. That's overwhelming offensive contribution if i ever saw it. I don't know why you're fighting me on this, it's really annoying.

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Old
10-19-2009, 01:56 PM
  #125
Myron Gaines*
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Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
LOL, salary cap ring a bell?

Markov-Mara
Hamrlik-Barker
Spacek-Gill

Now that is more probable and VERY cool.

Markov-Spacek
Hammer-Barker

For the pp.
I was just wishful thinking, relax.

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