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Los Angeles Kings @ Dallas Stars - 10/19/09 - 5:30PM

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Old
10-19-2009, 03:17 PM
  #51
jimmy1100
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I was going to post something that occurred to me during the Frolov meet Kings segment (2nd or 3rd game of the year) buty didn't. Now seems like the time -

Does anyone think that maybe Frolov's issue is a language barrier? I mean, he smiles and seems like he's understanding an english conversation, but there seems to be difficulty as well. That makes me wonder if Frolov just smiles and nods and tries to play better (his ridiculous amount of talent allowing him to do so) but never actually gets the full depth of the coaching being offered.

Does anyone know if Frolov uses an interpreter? Or if we've ever tried having a russian translator help explain the details of what the coaching staff is trying to convey?

Just something that popped into my head again after reading the recent Frolovian developments.

Either way, outlook is not good at this point. And that upsets me.

Here's to winning tonight and ending this skid. Coming into the season, if you told me we'd go 3-1 at home and 3-3 on the road to start the season, I wouldn't have been the least bit upset.

Let's get back on track!!!

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Old
10-19-2009, 03:19 PM
  #52
Ziggy Stardust
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Originally Posted by aegwillnotwinthecup View Post
Yeah, I came in here to offer some kind of thought about this whole debacle, but this post pretty much sums up my feelings.

Farewell, Fro. You were one of the best LWs in the league when you're on your game.
Which didn't happen often enough, which is why he finds himself on the outs. Frolov's play is reminiscent of this player who could've been a top 10 center in the NHL whenever he decided to show up to play:

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Old
10-19-2009, 03:34 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Which didn't happen often enough, which is why he finds himself on the outs. Frolov's play is reminiscent of this player who could've been a top 10 center in the NHL whenever he decided to show up to play:
How many 30 goal seasons did Stumpel have again? Not many people are going to argue that Frolov couldn't do more, but to compare these two is just silly.

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Old
10-19-2009, 03:41 PM
  #54
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Per Hammond, Ivanans skated with Handzus and Simmonds. Not Moller. Ivanans.

This could be a colossal train-wreck tonight.

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Old
10-19-2009, 03:42 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Bandit View Post
How many 30 goal seasons did Stumpel have again? Not many people are going to argue that Frolov couldn't do more, but to compare these two is just silly.
Thank you for missing the point. Let me spell it out for you.

Stumpel's PPG during his career was .70. Frolov is at .72. They are comparable in the sense that they are both forwards who underachieved. They could have been among the best at their position but never put it together on a consistent basis.

They'd have some very productive seasons, but most of them were filled with frustration and failure to produce at critical points in the season.

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Old
10-19-2009, 03:54 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by KingsCast View Post
Per Hammond, Ivanans skated with Handzus and Simmonds. Not Moller. Ivanans.

This could be a colossal train-wreck tonight.
This line has played together before. It's not new. It's depressing, but not new. The Kings managed in the past... they'll manage tonight. Hell, they might even win.

- T

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Old
10-19-2009, 03:55 PM
  #57
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I was in the locker room during the 97-98 season and had Stumpel autograph a program or something for me. Dude was a big guy...I was 6'3" and 230 at the time and I still remember thinking how big he was.

I always thought about that when he played like a marshmallow out there.

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Old
10-19-2009, 03:57 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
They could have been among the best at their position
Stumpel could have been among the best at his position? In the SEL, maybe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
They'd have some very productive seasons, but most of them were filled with frustration and failure to produce at critical points in the season.
Not everyone is as frustrated with Frolov as you seem to be. And if you want to talk about failure to achive at a critical point in the season, well, there's someone else who is going to remain on this team that pulled a much bigger vanishing act last year when the team was still looking for a playoff spot.

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Old
10-19-2009, 04:01 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by TonySCV View Post
This line has played together before. It's not new. It's depressing, but not new. The Kings managed in the past... they'll manage tonight. Hell, they might even win.

- T
Does anyone actually expect Ivanans to play a full game on that line? I mean, really?

Anyways, it isnt the end of the world. Lehtinen, Modano, and Richards are all out as well, so we picked as good a game as any to bench Frolov...

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Old
10-19-2009, 04:04 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Stoneface Vimes View Post
Does anyone actually expect Ivanans to play a full game on that line? I mean, really?
God I hope not.

Quote:
Anyways, it isnt the end of the world. Lehtinen, Modano, and Richards are all out as well, so we picked as good a game as any to bench Frolov...
Good point. I'm sure that played into the timing without a doubt.

- T

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10-19-2009, 04:07 PM
  #61
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This is what the coach should do.

He should move Fro up to the 2nd line on the road. What is the point of a great checking line if you never get the match-ups?

He is a sizeable upgrade over Purcell on the 2nd line and would make that line a legit scoring threat on the road when you need it. That way the opposition has to worry about 2 lines instead of 1. Move Purcell down with Zus on the shutdown...no big deal because you won't get the match-ups anyways

Then when you are back at home and the shutdown line is actually used effectively you can put Fro back with Zus.

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Old
10-19-2009, 04:07 PM
  #62
Ziggy Stardust
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandit View Post
Stumpel could have been among the best at his position? In the SEL, maybe.



Not everyone is as frustrated with Frolov as you seem to be. And if you want to talk about failure to achive at a critical point in the season, well, there's someone else who is going to remain on this team that pulled a much bigger vanishing act last year when the team was still looking for a playoff spot.
Stumpel sure was top 10 worthy when he put his mind to it. In 97-98, first season with the Kings, he finished 14th overall in NHL scoring and the 7th highest scoring center that season. The season prior to his acquisition, he was 27th in the NHL in scoring and top 15 among all NHL centers.

After some productive seasons his play and consistency started to slowly diminish, which is what we are seeing with Frolov as he gets older. Is he showing improvement? Is he getting better at any skill? Is he more productive? Has his work ethic improved? I think we can all honestly and fairly answer those questions with a resounding NO.

And if you are referring to Dustin Brown as the player who pulled a vanishing act, I should inform you that I have also been VERY critical of his play and currently see Brown as more of a checking line, second line tweener. He's looking more like Trent Klatt, but he's working hard and his game is starting to come together right now. He's played well the past few games.

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Old
10-19-2009, 04:11 PM
  #63
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WILL BE AT THE GAME TONIGHT IN DALLAS!!! (Wearing the 3rd jersey) And will be on the side the Kings will shoot on most of the time. 5 rows up from the ice. GO KINGS GO!!
I also get to go in the King Locker Room Today!!!
Kopitar with the Hat Trick today!(hopefully) MARK MY WORD!

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Old
10-19-2009, 04:27 PM
  #64
TonySCV
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Unfortunately there are cultural dynamics in play here as well, and that's evident by reading that he's not responding in meetings when his performance is discussed. Everyone responds differently, particularly when differing cultures are involved. Clearly they've tried to to deal with that by giving him a lot of time to see if he can address their concerns on the ice and he's not responding - at least not consistently.

I can understand a coach not being able to work with a player (and it being the coach's fault for not finding the right way to get the point across), but now we're hearing that it's been at least 2 coaches, and 2 general managers. It's not the coaching or the GM... it's the player.

If Frolov isn't part of the big picture, then I'd like to know as a fan sooner rather than later who will replace him, because the Kings don't have the luxury of continuing to bench the guy - they have no one that can step in to replace his production.

It's frustrating because I thought the Frolov tenure was over at the end of last season, yet here he still is. We don't have another season to waste on seeing if Frolov's in the mood to actually play hard enough, consistently enough to make the playoffs. DL needs to find the guy that's going to replace him and move on.

- T


Last edited by TonySCV: 10-19-2009 at 04:34 PM.
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Old
10-19-2009, 04:31 PM
  #65
William H Bonney
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingsCast View Post
Per Hammond, Ivanans skated with Handzus and Simmonds. Not Moller. Ivanans.

This could be a colossal train-wreck tonight.
And the Murray hypocrisy and double standards continue.

Frolov isn't doing what's asked of him and he's benched, fine.

Ivanans continues to hurt his team on the score sheet while only playing < 5 minutes a game and he gets...promoted. This is a guy that is a marginal ECHLer, at best.

I'm not going to defend Frolov because I agree with the a lot of criticisms, but it's not beneficial to the team or Frolov that he's the only one held to this standard going back to last year.

Way to go Deano and Murray. I hope you enjoy your marriage because the divorce will be messy.

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Old
10-19-2009, 04:32 PM
  #66
Ziggy Stardust
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Make that three coaches who have attempted to figure out Frolov. Andy Murray, Marc Crawford and Terry Murray.

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Old
10-19-2009, 04:33 PM
  #67
William H Bonney
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Originally Posted by TonySCV View Post
Unfortunately there are cultural dynamics in play here as well, and that's evident by reading that he's not responding in meetings when his performance is discussed. Everyone responds differently, particularly when differing cultures are involved. Clearly they've tried to to deal with that by giving him a lot of time to see if he can address their concerns on the ice and he's not responding - at least not consistently.

I can understand a coach not being able to work with a player (and it being the coach's fault for not finding the right way to get the point across), but now we're hearing that it's been at least 2 coaches, and 2 general managers. It's not the coaching or the GM... it's the player.


If Frolov isn't part of the big picture, then I'd like to know as a fan sooner rather than later who will replace him, because the Kings don't have the luxury of benching a guy and having no one of Frolov's caliber to replace him with.

It's frustrating because I thought the Frolov tenure was over at the end of last season, yet here he still is. We don't have another season to waste on seeing if Frolov's in the mood to actually play hard enough, consistently enough to make the playoffs. DL needs to find the guy that's going to replace him and move on.

- T
And that's also the fault of management and the coaches for continuing to try and fit a round peg in a square hole. Frolov is the player that he is and if that player doesn't fit into your system, he should have been moved long ago.

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10-19-2009, 04:35 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by William H Bonney View Post
And that's also the fault of management and the coaches for continuing to try and fix a round peg in a square hole. Frolov is the player that he is and if that player doesn't fit into your system, he should have been moved long ago.
100% agree... DL may wind up being guilty of being too patient with him, although I certainly can see the dilemma he's had to deal with. He wants to everything he can to make a 9 year veteran who was drafted by the team work.

Frolov also isn't a dime a dozen 4th line goon meant to intimidate. Frolov is not easily replaceable, and that's a big part of the reason why Frolov is still here.

- T

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Old
10-19-2009, 04:39 PM
  #69
William H Bonney
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Originally Posted by TonySCV View Post
100% agree... DL may wind up being guilty of being too patient with him. Although I certainly can see the dilemma he's had to deal with. He wants to everything he can to make a 9 year veteran who was drafted by the team work.

- T
The problem seems to be though that only Lombardi and Murray don't seem to think Frolov works on this team, which is fine but now he's definitely handicapped himself here.

A couple of years ago he could have moved Frolov for picks/prospects who could be contributing now and helping this team in his mold. Now, if Frolov's traded for anything other than current NHL player(s) that will contribute immediately, Kings fans will and should revolt. And that's a daunting task considering they just trashed Frolov in the media and he's an UFA.

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Old
10-19-2009, 04:41 PM
  #70
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I expect a 6-1 thrashing tonight, Richards scores a hattrick from the press box.

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Old
10-19-2009, 04:48 PM
  #71
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Frolov is simply an outsider on this team, his days are numbered. Murray's trying to send a message to the team, as well as Frolov, but if Ivanans-Handzus-Simmonds are kept together the whole night, there's going to be issues on the ice.

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Old
10-19-2009, 04:52 PM
  #72
William H Bonney
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Originally Posted by Cabwaylingo View Post
Frolov is simply an outsider on this team, his days are numbered. Murray's trying to send a message to the team, as well as Frolov, but if Ivanans-Handzus-Simmonds are kept together the whole night, there's going to be issues on the ice.
I don't see how continuing to ostracize one player that's already an outsider is sending a message. Frolov has been Murray's fall guy since he got here. You don't think the other players see and know that?

Sending a message would have been benching one of Kopitar or Brown when both were playing atrocious hockey last year. Or benching a Smyth for a period for taking bad penalties. Or Doughty etc. Those are messages.

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Old
10-19-2009, 04:56 PM
  #73
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Benching your 22 year old center or 19 year old defenseman does nothing besides destroy their confidence.

I understand all the high emotions running around here, but let's not be stupid.

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Old
10-19-2009, 04:59 PM
  #74
William H Bonney
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Originally Posted by aegwillnotwinthecup View Post
Benching your 22 year old center or 19 year old defenseman does nothing besides destroy their confidence.

I understand all the high emotions running around here, but let's not be stupid.
The history of player development doesn't agree with you. But even then I'm not advocating for that either.

I just think it's comical that some of the sheep here think that Frolov, for the umpteenth time being the fall guy - when no one else is - is sending any kind of message to this team other than: "The coach and GM don't like Frolov and it's only a matter of time before he's gone."

Benching some of the guys I mentioned, even if for a period, would send a message. Whether or not it should be done is a different argument, one which I'm not advocating for.

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Old
10-19-2009, 05:02 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by William H Bonney View Post
I don't see how continuing to ostracize one player that's already an outsider is sending a message. Frolov has been Murray's fall guy since he got here. You don't think the other players see and know that?

Sending a message would have been benching one of Kopitar or Brown when both were playing atrocious hockey last year. Or benching a Smyth for a period for taking bad penalties. Or Doughty etc. Those are messages.
Stoll was in Murray's dog house around this time last year.

Benching Kopitar or Doughty would be a huge mistake.

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